Curious about UDT / SUDT

[SidecarFlip]

Other than the initial charge in both my M series, I switched from Kubota fluids long ago to Chevron Synthetic THC with no issues. One thing I like about the THC is the color, the SUDT and UDT is clear and hard to see on my dipsticks, The THC is orange, easy to see.

I also changed out the FWA oil from SUDT to 85-90 Hypoid oil (GL5). I shock load my tractors pretty heavily in FWA so I figured the 85-90 GL5 is a better lubricant.

THC is about the same as UDT in price, typically 225 bucks for 3, 5 gallon pails. My changeout is around 12 gallons with filters on the M9 and 14 gallons on the 105. Front axles are about 4 quarts give or take.

I change my fluid every 1500 hours and do a spectroscopic analysis on it every time. Same with lube oil and antifreeze. Crankcase oil gets changed every fall. I run my units pretty hard, after all, farming is hard.

 

[85Hokie]

UDT has been the standard for a long while with big K....

they then came out with a SUDT.....basically a blend of newer oil developments with the old UDT - thus you had a semi-synthetic oil. Hard to find the stuff now, as most dealers and retailers no longer carry it.

The S-UDT2 is a full synthetic hydraulic oil, that is by far has better viscosity ratings than the old stuff - cold weather temps get instant fluid movements due to the faster flow ability.

There are other companies that make full synthetic oils that will do the same thing - but you better make sure it meets or exceeds all of the Kubota standards before switching.

Many have placed the good ol WALLY WORLD or TRACTOR supply UDT in there because it says it meet the kubota specs. ........they are rolling the dice, and eventually will crap out.

The thing you might want to look at in the front axle is that at 85w90 - that pours rather sllllloooowwy in single digit weather - IT is an 85 weight oil, which pours poorly at the temperature, in your neck of the woods I imagine single digits would be common.
The SUDT2 will pour like 10 weight oil, thus it will get to all those mating surfaces better in cold.

Now I agree with you wholeheartedly ....checking SUDT2 can be a real PITA due to its clearness.

 

[200mph]

Can the OP share how much the Chevron fluid cost in 5 gallon pales? I tried finding some locally a few years ago and had a hard time finding anyone who carried it and the price quoted was 20% more than SUDT2 from Kubota.

Hydraulic dye can be added to SUDT2 to improve readability. JD sells it and it can be purchased elsewhere.

Please be aware it is not possible to compare viscosity ratings between different types of oil directly as they use different scales. Using the chart in the attached link. 75W gear lube is similar to 10W lube oil with respect to viscosity.
Reference chart: https://www.glennbennettcorp.com/hubfs/PDF/Viscosity-Reference.pdf

Also keep in mind the differential is already bathed in lube and gear lube clings to the surface unlike lube oil that must be pumped. It's hard to beat gear lube for use in the differential.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I get my Chevron THC from my local jobber. I buy a lot of lubricants, grease, oil and hydraulic fluid and usually in bulk so I deal with a commercial Chevron jobber. Never seen it for sale retail. Just at my dealer this morning to pay on my continuing bill and mentioned to them I used THC. So do they in their Kubota services. Stuff even smells like SUDT. The owner told me that they have had many owners come in with overfilled tractors because the Kubota fluid is clear I know it's almost impossible to ascertain the correct level on my tractors, they both have dipsticks. Not an issue with THC, it's orange.

Why I switched to just one motor oil. It's cheaper in 55's. Typically, I pay around 20 bucks a gallon for 5-40 T6 Rotella and a 55 gallon drum does me for a year. Everything from lawnmowers to cars to tractors.

 

[lugbolt]

Watch the "specifications".

Lots of times, a particular lube will have "meets or exceeds X brand specifications".

What specifications? The color of the bucket they put it in? They never tell you that.

 

[85Hokie]

Watch the "specifications".

Lots of times, a particular lube will have "meets or exceeds X brand specifications".

What specifications? The color of the bucket they put it in? They never tell you that.

Lugbolt ----- Excellent point made

 

[RCW]

What specifications? The color of the bucket they put it in? They never tell you that.

Like Hokie said - great point.

.... "Our Product works 50% better/faster"......

50% Better/faster than WHAT???

 

[mikester]

The S-UDT2 is a full synthetic hydraulic oil, that is by far has better viscosity ratings than the old stuff - cold weather temps get instant fluid movements due to the faster flow ability.

Does anybody know if S-UDT2 is available in Canada? Last time I tried to get SUDT at the dealer I was told only Kubota UDT is available as SUDT wasn't sold in Canada.

 

[85Hokie]

Does anybody know if S-UDT2 is available in Canada? Last time I tried to get SUDT at the dealer I was told only Kubota UDT is available as SUDT wasn't sold in Canada.

Most from the great north have said they COULD NOT get it ....I have now idea why it would not be available there.....

 

[SidecarFlip]

Watch the "specifications".

Lots of times, a particular lube will have "meets or exceeds X brand specifications".

What specifications? The color of the bucket they put it in? They never tell you that.

In as much as I have well over 100K in tractors, I'm very cognizant of fluid specs and how they perform in actual duty. Why I do a spectro analysis on all my used lubricants as a matter of reference.

 

[85Hokie]

In as much as I have well over 100K in tractors, I'm very cognizant of fluid specs and how they perform in actual duty. Why I do a spectro analysis on all my used lubricants as a matter of reference.

What does a analysis cost? What does the report look like?
I am curious what is in the specs. Like to see a report if you have one to share

PS - no one is questioning your oil understanding......it is the others that "do not understand" oil......and they typically ask the "oil" question......on AFTER the machine is not doing what is should do!

 

[SidecarFlip]

What does a analysis cost? What does the report look like?
I am curious what is in the specs. Like to see a report if you have one to share

PS - no one is questioning your oil understanding......it is the others that "do not understand" oil......and they typically ask the "oil" question......on AFTER the machine is not doing what is should do!

I use Blackstone Labs in Fort Wayne. I think pre paid is 25 bucks. I have a few pre paid sample bottles on the shelf. I do know the TBN value is extra. I always get that too because it tells you how much life is left in the additive package.

Just because oil is black or dark don't mean it's shot. All that means is the oil is doing it's job, suspending contaminants. The TBN number tells you how much additive is left i the lubricant. I even do my antifreeze. Amazing with it will tell you and you can redict impending engine issues before the engine breaks down. Very important for me. I depend on my tractors for an income.

Don't have any analysis printout's handy. They stay filed with the maintenance records in the office.

 

[RCW]

Just because oil is black or dark don't mean it's shot. All that means is the oil is doing it's job, suspending contaminants. The TBN number tells you how much additive is left i the lubricant. I even do my antifreeze. Amazing with it will tell you and you can redict impending engine issues before the engine breaks down. Very important for me. I depend on my tractors for an income.

Very interesting.

Given the amount of fluids (translation...$$$$) your big tractors use, I'm sure the data you get from the analyses is well-worth the cost....Maximize fluid life/efficacy, but not beyond....

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Does anybody know if S-UDT2 is available in Canada? Last time I tried to get SUDT at the dealer I was told only Kubota UDT is available as SUDT wasn't sold in Canada.

It could be in the verbiage:

There are three fluids

UDT- dino
SUDT- Semi synthetic - discontinued
SUDT2- Full synthetic- latest and greatest

 

[hagrid]

Am I to understand that gear oil is superior to S-UDT2 in gear drives whether straight or helical/hypoid cut?

 

[Orangeglow]

Does anybody know if S-UDT2 is available in Canada? Last time I tried to get SUDT at the dealer I was told only Kubota UDT is available as SUDT wasn't sold in Canada.

I called my local dealer in Brockville Ontario to see if SUDT-2
was available, and the parts guy assured me they had it. Drove to the dealer, only to find out they only had the regular UDT. Kinda ticked me off, just wasted an hour.
Luckily for me, living in Eastern Ontario in Canada, I was able to drive to Potsdam, New York, and buy a 5 gallon pail of SUDT-2.
It was a beautiful sunny day here to-day, so I got the fluid changed out, along with the filter, and like everyone else that has done the change with SUDT-2, noticed that it definitely sounds much quieter, with much less whine.
While at it, I removed the screen filter, and was pleasantly surprised to see how clean it was.
I also changed out the engine oil and filter.
Checked the anti-freeze, and got the block heater cord ready to be plugged in, when the cold and snow arrives, and the snowblowing begins.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Am I to understand that gear oil is superior to S-UDT2 in gear drives whether straight or helical/hypoid cut?

I was told by dealer tech that when they change front axle oil, which comes from the factory as SUDT2, they always change it to 80-90 gear oil because it will be slower to leak out if a seal starts to leak. He seemed to think leaks would be likely. I didn't get any impression that he thought it was a superior lubricant.

 

[85Hokie]

the thing about all of this is the protection factor and viscosity especially when cold.
Most all oil once they get good and hot will have a very close viscosity.

here is a chart that shows how "ENGINE" oil weight and "GEAR" oil weight are similar but yet different.....

https://www.glennbennettcorp.com/hubfs/PDF/Viscosity-Reference.pdf

notice that 10 weight motor oil is somewhat at the bottom of 75 weight gear oil.....while 30 'ish weight engine is close to 85 weight gear.

The leaking point that Sheep mentions has little to do with protection of the oil being used, rather the viscosity of that oil being used. As has always been known, a thicker oil will leak less than a thinner oil! If a tractor has a leaky seal, and the tractor is worked daily, it will leak - it will maybe leak MORE if a thinner based oil is used from the get go.

 

[mikester]

I called my local dealer in Brockville Ontario to see if SUDT-2
was available, and the parts guy assured me they had it. Drove to the dealer, only to find out they only had the regular UDT. Kinda ticked me off, just wasted an hour.
Luckily for me, living in Eastern Ontario in Canada, I was able to drive to Potsdam, New York, and buy a 5 gallon pail of SUDT-2.
It was a beautiful sunny day here to-day, so I got the fluid changed out, along with the filter, and like everyone else that has done the change with SUDT-2, noticed that it definitely sounds much quieter, with much less whine.
While at it, I removed the screen filter, and was pleasantly surprised to see how clean it was.
I also changed out the engine oil and filter.
Checked the anti-freeze, and got the block heater cord ready to be plugged in, when the cold and snow arrives, and the snowblowing begins.

I was told that SUDT isn't available here due to some kind of licensing issue. UDT here is made by Imperial Oil and they don't have the license or aren't "authorized" to make SUDT. Apparently vendors are not allowed to import the other stuff for some reason.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I was told by dealer tech that when they change front axle oil, which comes from the factory as SUDT2, they always change it to 80-90 gear oil because it will be slower to leak out if a seal starts to leak. He seemed to think leaks would be likely. I didn't get any impression that he thought it was a superior lubricant.

Have no idea about smaller Kubby's but my front planetaries are hermetically sealed and the outboard units are sequestered from the axle itself and each outboard takes it's own fill as does the axle. First thing I did after taking delivery of the of the M9 and 105 was a drained the outboard planetaries and the axles and replaced the UDT or SUDT (whatever was in there) with 85-90 GL5 Spirax Hypoid oil. While I rarely use FWA, when I do, it's always a heavy shock load situation and I want the protection of a GL5 hypoid oil in there instead.

In my view, UDT or SUDT is fine for the main gear case and hydraulics but lacks the viscosity for heavy duty use in the final drive. I may be all wet with that but I feel more confident that the hypoid oil is a better alternative.

Never had a leak on either of my tractors other than hydraulic oil leaking from the remotes when changing out implements. Keeps the back end lubricated and my hands greasy...lol

Can you lubricate (grease) the front outboard's on the smaller tractors? My large frame units are loaded with Alemite fittings.