Are you going to.....

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armylifer

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"....and it regurgitates the party line excuses back at you." Often called talking points!

" A talking point, often used in the plural, is a pre-established message or formula used in the field of political communication, sales and commercial or advertising ... "

Functions on the premise if you hear the same thing often enough one begins to believe it's true. One has to be constantly on guard to not fall into the trap.
This actually stems from a CIA experiment in mind control. The program was called MKUltra. It was highly effective.
 
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sheepfarmer

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Real quiet in here as more actual data comes out.

It must be a real bummer when you have been waving the banner up and down the street to find out you were lied to from the start.

I am amazed at the excuses one side comes up with. Almost like there is a website somewhere that you put a phrase into and it regurgitates the party line excuses back at you.
Alternative hypothesis about responding to some of these posts, it is a waste of time to refute the incorrect sources being cited, those of you that believe that the new vaccines are bad are just going to search out new ones to support your point of view. I am comfortable at looking at new data, don't think I am being lied too, because science provides the limitations of what they have and what they don't have.

If you don't think the vaccine risk benefit is suitable for YOU, don't take it. Armylifer has made it clear that he shouldn't take it for medical reasons. There is some risk, probably higher than with some of the older vaccines like the flu vaccine. By all means make the best choice you can given the risk where you live, your age, and your health. It really isn't necessary to dredge up incorrect information to support your choice, just choose.

I have a suggestion re the lengthy article constructed around the notion that the two current vaccines are not really vaccines:

Look up protein synthesis and the role of RNA. Look up the mechanisms by which all the older vaccines work. Do this in a basic biology textbook published at least 10 years ago so it is free of internet political bias. Then maybe you can sort out the wheat from the chaff.
 
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Old_Paint

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If they are already terminally ill with a few months to live, why would they bother getting the vaccination?????
If they are terminally ill with a few months to live, did they die from COVID or their illness? If someone has Stage 4 cancer with 3 days to live and COVID, does that mean that if they live 4 days that COVID killed them? If they die in two days, does that mean COVID killed them before their cancer did? If a patient has a comorbidity and simply gets one positive ping for COVID[from very unreliable testing], that is all the evidence needed to call it a COVID related death, regardless of whether or not there were any symptoms. IN FACT, if a patient with a terminal illness is admitted but dies before being tested for COVID, or arrives DOA with no evidence of traumatic injury being the cause of death, the hospital has no requirement to test at all, and can declare the death a COVID related death. I'll give you three guesses which statistic gets the hospital the best subsidy from the Government, and the first two don't count. Nah, the numbers aren't skewed at all.

:unsure:

I'm wondering how quickly healthcare insurance companies are gonna jump on this gravy train and charge penalties for those that refuse to take the vaccine (for which they get paid by big Pharma to push). They did it with smoking, didn't they? That's why I quit on 10/10/09. Had I smoked one cigarette on 10/11/09, I would have been paying an extra $600/yr in medical care coverage. And that would have been to a "non-profit" insurance company.

The craziness gets crazier.
 
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Old_Paint

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I wasnt going to get it but then I found out that if and when the border opens I cannot get in to the GWN with out a card saying I got it, also and take this for what it is worth,,, I have heard and I cannot say it was from a credited source. That traveling on the turn pikes at the toll gates people will be required to show their shot card, no card no go,, something like Check point Charlie , if any of yinz are old enough to remember that
To a point, I sort of agree with uber tight border security. Passport required, etc, etc. But, requiring evidence of a vaccination that in no way guarantees you will not get the disease again, mmmm, well, maybe the GWN or any other country will have to do without my supporting cash. Australia requires a negative test for entering or leaving, but as of yet, I don't think vaccination is required.

See my previous comment about health insurance providers, though.
 

Old_Paint

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Kind of makes me wonder more and more if I really want it when I read what its made of !
Yeah, the mention of Polyethylene Glycol as a vehicle bothered me just a tad. Take the Poly off, and you've got anti-freeze. I'm not a tractor that needs protection from freezing.
 

Old_Paint

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Here is an update on adverse events associated with vaccination


As noted before it is not 0, but for most of us 2 to 11 out of a million for anaphylaxis, means you’d have to be pretty unlucky.
So what if you're between number 999.988 and 999,999? Yep, my luck is THAT bad.
 

Daren Todd

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If they are terminally ill with a few months to live, did they die from COVID or their illness? If someone has Stage 4 cancer with 3 days to live and COVID, does that mean that if they live 4 days that COVID killed them? If they die in two days, does that mean COVID killed them before their cancer did? If a patient has a comorbidity and simply gets one positive ping for COVID[from very unreliable testing], that is all the evidence needed to call it a COVID related death, regardless of whether or not there were any symptoms. IN FACT, if a patient with a terminal illness is admitted but dies before being tested for COVID, or arrives DOA with no evidence of traumatic injury being the cause of death, the hospital has no requirement to test at all, and can declare the death a COVID related death. I'll give you three guesses which statistic gets the hospital the best subsidy from the Government, and the first two don't count. Nah, the numbers aren't skewed at all.

:unsure:

I'm wondering how quickly healthcare insurance companies are gonna jump on this gravy train and charge penalties for those that refuse to take the vaccine (for which they get paid by big Pharma to push). They did it with smoking, didn't they? That's why I quit on 10/10/09. Had I smoked one cigarette on 10/11/09, I would have been paying an extra $600/yr in medical care coverage. And that would have been to a "non-profit" insurance company.

The craziness gets crazier.
I wonder if you work for the same company I do??? They have a tobacco incentive which is $600 off your insurance premiums.
 

Old_Paint

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They are kinda opening themselves up for trouble with the triple masking.

There is a reason why most companies require a medical evaluation and fit test before using an N95 mask.
That isn't most companies. That is an OSHA requirement for any environment with very stringent standards for respiratory hazards, beginning with basic dust/particulate protection ranging up to very specialized gas/vapor protection. I ran an industrial circuit breaker repair/upgrade/retrofit and fabrication facility for GE about 12 years ago, and since I was basically a one-man operation with no janitorial service, I had to sweep the floors too as part of my HSE housekeeping activities. During normal operations, sometimes I cut fiberglass and metal with abrasive discs, as well as had a glass bead blaster, so I had some pretty wicked stuff in the air at times, which was only aggravated when sweeping. Particulates are exactly why anything that breathes air will sneeze. That said, I went to the local Home Depot to get some masks, I found N95 respirators at a very inexpensive price in bulk. They were clearly labeled respirator, but I thought that was because they were made in China and I wasn't quite hip yet about the difference in a mask and a respirator. By OSHA definitions, 1 strap is a mask, two straps is a respirator, regardless of the orientation of the straps. And that's where the trouble begins. Regardless of the shape and size of the actual filter media, the number of straps is the determining factor. Shortly after purchasing said masks to mitigate what I considered to be a hazard to me and anyone else that worked in that shop, we had a safety audit. I really thought our HSE manager would be proud of my initiative to provide everyone with airborne particulate PPE. But, instead, he told me I had to discard all the N95 masks (nearly 500 of them) because I was not fit-tested and trained to wear them. This was all well and truly before the planet knew about COVID 19, and masks/respirators were not very expensive then. But looking back now ..... Never mind the fact that I was actually cleanshaven (mustache notwithstanding) fit-tested and trained for the M-41 mask at the time because of some contract work at the Anniston Army Depot Chemical Disposal Facility. The M41 comes in MANY shapes and sizes for just about any size and shape pumpkin you can imagine, with a really nice silicone seal for the face. If you've never had to pass an Army fit test for the M-41, you have no idea how hard that is to do if you smoke. It's all about CO2 levels in the mask, including some mildly strenuous exercise while reading loud enough to be heard and understood by others not wearing the mask (Not real sure about that requirement). But I'd rather get a little dizzy from CO2 during the testing than the alternative of getting a good snort of Sarin or VX. I even got my own little 2PAM kit to carry while I was there as well. Took me 4 attempts to pass, but pass I did, so then I was permitted to go through three security gates with very heavily armed guards with fully automatic weapons and roaming Humvees with turret mounted .50 cal machine guns, as well as the occasional M1A2 crossing the roads into a place where use of deadly force warnings were posted in abundance. To think I actually volunteered for that job. Did I mention I've had an interesting career?
 

Old_Paint

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I bet he wished he didn't.

A man in his seventies died in Manhattan, N.Y., on Sunday shortly after he received a COVID-19 vaccine, according to the state health commissioner.

The unnamed elderly patient collapsed as he was leaving the Javits Center vaccination site, according to Dr. Howard Zucker, New York State health commissioner.

Though security and first responders were by the man's side in a matter of seconds, said Zucker, the man died soon after in the hospital.

"The incident occurred approximately 25 minutes after he was vaccinated, and following the required 15 minute observation period where he exhibited no adverse reactions or any distress". "Initial indications are that the man did not have any allergic reaction to the vaccine."

This was in 25 minutes. How about weeks later from some unknown. I have never been a fan of Russian Roulette.
I'll refer back to the publicity of Hammerin' Hank getting his shot in Hotlanta. Two weeks later .....
 

Daren Todd

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That isn't most companies. That is an OSHA requirement for any environment with very stringent standards for respiratory hazards, beginning with basic dust/particulate protection ranging up to very specialized gas/vapor protection. I ran an industrial circuit breaker repair/upgrade/retrofit and fabrication facility for GE about 12 years ago, and since I was basically a one-man operation with no janitorial service, I had to sweep the floors too as part of my HSE housekeeping activities. During normal operations, sometimes I cut fiberglass and metal with abrasive discs, as well as had a glass bead blaster, so I had some pretty wicked stuff in the air at times, which was only aggravated when sweeping. Particulates are exactly why anything that breathes air will sneeze. That said, I went to the local Home Depot to get some masks, I found N95 respirators at a very inexpensive price in bulk. They were clearly labeled respirator, but I thought that was because they were made in China and I wasn't quite hip yet about the difference in a mask and a respirator. By OSHA definitions, 1 strap is a mask, two straps is a respirator, regardless of the orientation of the straps. And that's where the trouble begins. Regardless of the shape and size of the actual filter media, the number of straps is the determining factor. Shortly after purchasing said masks to mitigate what I considered to be a hazard to me and anyone else that worked in that shop, we had a safety audit. I really thought our HSE manager would be proud of my initiative to provide everyone with airborne particulate PPE. But, instead, he told me I had to discard all the N95 masks (nearly 500 of them) because I was not fit-tested and trained to wear them. This was all well and truly before the planet knew about COVID 19, and masks/respirators were not very expensive then. But looking back now ..... Never mind the fact that I was actually cleanshaven (mustache notwithstanding) fit-tested and trained for the M-41 mask at the time because of some contract work at the Anniston Army Depot Chemical Disposal Facility. The M41 comes in MANY shapes and sizes for just about any size and shape pumpkin you can imagine, with a really nice silicone seal for the face. If you've never had to pass an Army fit test for the M-41, you have no idea how hard that is to do if you smoke. It's all about CO2 levels in the mask, including some mildly strenuous exercise while reading loud enough to be heard and understood by others not wearing the mask (Not real sure about that requirement). But I'd rather get a little dizzy from CO2 during the testing than the alternative of getting a good snort of Sarin or VX. I even got my own little 2PAM kit to carry while I was there as well. Took me 4 attempts to pass, but pass I did, so then I was permitted to go through three security gates with very heavily armed guards with fully automatic weapons and roaming Humvees with turret mounted .50 cal machine guns, as well as the occasional M1A2 crossing the roads into a place where use of deadly force warnings were posted in abundance. To think I actually volunteered for that job. Did I mention I've had an interesting career?
Ahh, but if you look at nursing homes. They just hand out n-95 masks to their employees. No fit test, or medical evaluation. Not all places of employment follow the osha regulations even when they are supposed to.
 

Old_Paint

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Any car accidents leading to death after taking the vaccine being blamed on taking the vaccine?
No, no car accidents involving decapitation resulting in COVID mortality, but we have had at least 3 motorcycle fatalities in Alabama that were COVID related.
 

Old_Paint

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I wonder if you work for the same company I do??? They have a tobacco incentive which is $600 off your insurance premiums.
Worked for GE (twice) for a total of 27 years PQS, nearly 32 years if you convert the OT worked to service time. I worked for two small companies for another 10 in between, but returned to GE in 2007 with full intentions to retire from GE. Insurance was BCBS of Alabama most of that time. Haven't moved an inch since GE sold us off like used farm equipment, but now have BCBS of Arkansas. Umm, we ain't in Kansas anymore, Toto. Was sold to ABB in 2018 when GE decided to sell off all 'non-core businesses', but managed to get early retirement package from GE, which was SUPPOSED to be an incentive to continue with ABB. All new coverage now (changed 3 times since 07/2018), and the smoking stuff is pretty much a foregone conclusion and standard in the terms for health coverage. We all get to pay if anyone in the company smokes, right? They now also ask if anyone else in the house smokes. Looks like the highway robbery plateaued.

I got a little lucky in 2018 in the Great Divestiture. We were supposed to transfer to ABB on June 1, 2018. I would have been 59 on that date, meaning ineligible for the early retirement requirements of Age 60 and at least 25 years PQS. The deal bounced and took longer to close, and we transferred to ABB on 06/29/2018. I turned 60 on 06/28/2018. So, I got every penny available on the early retirement. That one day was worth about $20K additional pay on my GE pension over the next 3 years and 8 months. That's pretty much what I invested in my LX2610SU.
 

D2Cat

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Talking about masks. I was watching the news last night (Friday) and the sports guy was talking HS basketball. There was a girls team game and several of the players were running up and down the court with face mask on!

I just shake my head and change channels. I see people driving their cars by themselves wearing a mask.

I have a really "cool" Dr. She's a general practitioner, but way ahead of some specialist Drs. in knowledge. I asked her if I could get covid-19 from myself. She looked at me with a peculiar look, and I said I was just wondering because I see people driving by themselves wearing a mask!
 
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Old_Paint

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Ahh, but if you look at nursing homes. They just hand out n-95 masks to their employees. No fit test, or medical evaluation. Not all places of employment follow the osha regulations even when they are supposed to.
Very few of them do, especially if it will affect them making a buck. Or, if they do, training is probably a 15 minute video and a test made in PowerPoint that will correct you if you answer wrong to make sure you don't fail. I've been doing this type of 'training' a LONG time. It's the norm now, and the most efficient and cost effective way to treat a large staff. While I may agree with that concept, I don't agree with the other one of making people work before they've passed the requirements and then doing the training/testing on their own time. That's part of the job, and should be paid for. Very rarely is it possible to fail a safety training test that an employer needs to have his employees complete for OSHA regulations governing the work being done. Sadly OSHA accepts these rigged tests for proper training. If you do somehow manage to fail, your employer knows you wanted to. It really doesn't matter if you truly understand the material or not. Some tests I've seen have all had really stupid irrelevant answers except for the right one, making it the only correct choice. That doesn't test the knowledge or qualification of the test taker.

Sadly, I'd be willing to bet that a lot of employees that don't press the issue for proper training have also signed a waiver that protects their employer, maybe without knowing exactly what they signed or why.
 

Old_Paint

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Talking about masks. I was watching the news last night (Friday) and the sports guy was talking HS basketball. There was a girls team game and several of the players were running up and down the court with face mask on!

I just shake my head and change channels. I see people driving their cars by themselves wearing a mask.

I have a really "cool" Dr. She's a general practitioner, but way ahead of some specialist Drs. in knowledge. I asked her if I could get covid-19 from myself. She looked at me with a peculiar look, and I said I was just wondering because I see people driving by themselves wearing a mask!
I giggle when I see this too. Until I've driven a couple miles before I realize I still have mine on, too. At least no one can see me laughing at them for being an idiot.
:sneaky:
 
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