The first b5100 Delorean

[johngwalsh]

Its in moderate shape at best...but still running...and I can repair the body damage cheaply so ideally Id like to keep it.what does the wire at the front of that pulley do.Will it affect the running of the tractor if its mising.

 

[johngwalsh]

I never refreshed the page.just read the answer from your previous text.Tnx

 

[Rob]

I applaud john, you don't give in without a fight

Have you ever seen this setup running?
I ask this becuase if not, the deck may be servicable, but what about the bearing on the clutch end of the shaft?
Are they good nice and smooth rotating etc, what about the magnetic clutch, they are not indestructable and do fail, not a cheap fix either.

it may seem like i keep banging on about is it worth doing this part of your project, but unless you can be reasonably sure all these parts are in good shape, let alone getting that shaft off the the engine, its all going to be a waste mate.

 

[Rob]

I have been thinking on this abit more and may have another plan of attack.
You'll need a small angle grinder (4 1/2 ") fitted with a very thin cutting disk.
also something small in diameter also, dremmel.

make 3 cuts along the sleeve so as run along the spline section , evenly spaced around the sleeve.
make sure you dont cut into the adapter shaft to much.
when you have made the three cuts and they are clean through inc upto the adapter plate, pour some more P fluid into the cuts so it runs along the shaft.

leave if for a while and then gently try wigling the shaft side to side to open the sleeve cuts abit.
this way it may enlarge the sleeve enough to be able to pull or leaver the shaft of the adapter boss.

once of, if it comes off that is, the slpines can be cleaned up on both sections, the sleeve cuts could be welded up easlily as they will only be thin
and then it could be resused .
just a mad idea, but i would try it , but i live on the edge
rob

 

[johngwalsh]

I think its that or cut it after the collar and use a puller to get it off ,turn down a new shaft in 316 and weld the old spline on to that.

I have seen it going I even used it once about 15 yrs ago...It does spin fine but realistically I am hoping it works rather than knowing.I suppose its just sentimental value to me but I cant give up on the old girl most would have used this as a weight for an anchor at best.
I have attached a few pic's with my proposed pull.I think it might work.I have a strong back behind the splined collar it bites the splined shaft well and i will arrange either a bottle jack(the one in the photo is just for demonstration) or 2 bits of threaded bar off the strong back to push off the clutch.Is this crazy or do I have a chance.I'm going to open the heineken injectors for the night and see how the idea sits with me after the hangover tomorrow.
Thanks again for all the advice

 

[Apogee]

John,

I think you will end up breaking the clutch assembly if you press against the aluminum housing.

I would suggest welding a couple of pieces of angle iron or thick tabs lengthwise onto the shaft near the clutch end. You could then use them as pressing points without destroying the clutch assembly.

The other option would be to remove the clutch assembly. There is a single nut in the middle of the clutch. Remove the nut, and the clutch assembly *might* come off with some persuasion. The clutch itself has a tapered fit onto the shaft, so one would hope that perhaps the fit was good enough that it might not be rusted solid. You would then be left with the shaft by itself with the threaded end that accepts the nut. Not sure if this would be any better, but it would be progress.

Again, I would weld a couple of heavy steel tabs or pieces of angle lengthwise on opposite sides of the shaft. This will give you a couple of very strong places to press against that can easily be cut off later.

Also, I like your idea of running a couple of beads on the collar to try to loosen it up. Not sure if it would be better than heating the whole thing red hot, but I do think heat will be your friend in this case.

Finally, also like Rob's idea of slicing the collar lengthwise as a last resort. Makes sense and might just save the day.

Just my $.02,

Steve

 

[Lil Foot]

I have been thinking on this abit more and may have another plan of attack.
You'll need a small angle grinder (4 1/2 ") fitted with a very thin cutting disk.
also something small in diameter also, dremmel.
make 3 cuts along the sleeve so as run along the spline section , evenly spaced around the sleeve.
make sure you dont cut into the adapter shaft to much.
when you have made the three cuts and they are clean through inc upto the adapter plate, pour some more P fluid into the cuts so it runs along the shaft.
leave if for a while and then gently try wigling the shaft side to side to open the sleeve cuts abit.
this way it may enlarge the sleeve enough to be able to pull or leaver the shaft of the adapter boss.
once of, if it comes off that is, the slpines can be cleaned up on both sections, the sleeve cuts could be welded up easlily as they will only be thin
and then it could be resused .
just a mad idea, but i would try it , but i live on the edge
rob

Finally, also like Rob's idea of slicing the collar lengthwise as a last resort. Makes sense and might just save the day.

I thought I already suggested this back in post #79? Oh well, my wife seldom pays any attention to what I say either.

 

[Rob]

sorry about that, yep seems you did

its the memory, mine seems to be failing after thread replies

rob

 

[Rob]

Hi John, there is also another important thing you need to keep in mind.
The pto shaft you are trying to remove would be pretty well balanced and straight, too much heavy handed and brute force could well alter that.
even a small amount of runout over the lenght of the shaft could cause a lot of excessive viberation and then bearing failure etc.
Just take it easy with the jack, as its putting all the force on one side, it would be better if you could get equal force on both sides.
rob

 

[Apogee]

John,

I would be VERY careful if you decide to slice the collar and rock it side to side to open the slices up like Lil Foot and Rob recommended. The crank is only about 1/2" at the nose and could snap off pretty easily with a foot of momentum like you have at the far end of the shaft.

Based on your work, I'm sure you know far more than I about this. However, I figured it couldn't hurt to toss it out there anyway as a reminder...

Straight pull and heat gets my vote...

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[Apogee]

Here's another thought:

What about using a couple of bolts in that bearing puller to press directly off the face of the damper. I assume the bolt holes I see in the face of the puller go all the way through but can't see for sure. If there is enough room, a couple of pieces of flatbar against the face of the pulley to distribute the load might help. Hopefully the puller bolt circle will land on the face of the damper rather than the actual belt lip area so the pulley doesn't get damaged. As long as you torque the bolts evenly, you would get a nice straight pull and could still use heat on the collar.

Just a thought...

 

[Rob]

I dont think heat alone is going to do it steve, i really believe john needs to get a bit of space in & around inbetween those splines along with some fluid.
I wasnt suggesting he yanked it side to side steve, just some gentle wiggling, maybe a few sharpe blows with a decent hammer on th sleeve at the same time, it maybe just enought to break the bond.

failing that, i'd just bin the thing...

rob

 

[Lil Foot]

I wasnt suggesting he yanked it side to side steve, just some gentle wiggling

My intentions exactly.

 

[Apogee]

Wasn't thinking any yanking would take place. Was just concerned that the tip of the crank might not like much in the way of side-to-side movement even just a little bit. It's pretty darn easy to put a lot of force on something with 16" extension... ;-)

Hopefully we'll be surprised and it will just pop right off.

I'm sure John has this well in hand.

Steve

 

[johngwalsh]

I'm hopefully going to tackle this on the weekend.I think after hearing all my options as ye say its going to be" a suck it and see "approach , but protecting the engine is the priority .I'll use the approaches from least severe first building up to a thin disc on my mini-grinder.If by some miracle I'm successful I might look at putting a flexible coupling on it later ...thats if its save-able... also elliminates a degree of misalignment later on if the shaft has warped. Tnx again men I'll keep ye posted.

 

[Apogee]

Good luck John!

May the force be with you!!!!!

I'll be very interested to learn what worked.

Steve

 

[johngwalsh]

Thanks Steve hoping the little orange kubota god is smiling on me...another idea to throw in is this... Found on the net for removing splined outboard engine shafts.pickle fork does the prizing..no good for me here but someone reading might have a use it

 

[Aardvark]

Hi John. Been away from the forum for a few months and just today got caught up with your saga. I had the same clutch assembly on mine and got another along with the belly mower I bought secondhand off ebay. The one on the tractor had the three little straps broken on it so wouldn't engage when powered up. I swapped it for the second one and it ran for about half an hour before burning up. Lots of smoke and profanity! Absolutely no chance of economical replacement or repair so my opinion would be to just try to get the old setup off the crank without hurting the crank pulley and call it a day. If they weren't so heavy for postage I would send the remains of my two clutches along as a donation to "the Delorean project". I had tried to open up the clutch assembly but even with the big nut removed it would have needed a huge press to remove the innards. The splined shafts came away from the tractor easily but thats about as far as I could get without workshop facilities.

I am now working on a different approach for using the belly mower. I'm fitting a secondhand B&S engine directly on top of the mower deck and welding on some attachment points for the three point. I'll just tow it along, self-powered. Work is on hold now until summer when I can get outside with the tools.

 

[johngwalsh]

Thanks for the advice and thanks for reading Aardvark.My poor little tractor is in a zillion pieces and this set back is a very unwanted one.
Best of luck with the mower upgrade..I'd be interested in seeing a photo or two of the finished product.
I still havent had a chance to try the "big pull", so depending how that goes I could just be doing what you suggested.

 

[johngwalsh]

Ye are not going to believe this.....But after a whole lot of worrying and a little praying I have it off.To be fair my buddy Foxy John came to the rescue.I had made up another strong back to grip the middle of the shaft shaft where it was recessed,this was made out two 3/4 threaded flanges cut in half and turned at 90 degrees to each other, bolted to stop them splitting and then tried jack one strong back off the other.....this failed to budge it.I tried another bit of heat...no good.Then Foxy John called over.He placed my little anvil on a block of wood....on this he put the splined shaft and gave it a couple of descent thumps of a 2lb hammer straight down on the splined collar.He worked around the whole shaft.While he was shocking the splines the force wasnt going on the crank bearings but into the anvil.He gave it a few thumps directed away from the crank..nothing crazy.. and we got it to budge.Then back on with the strong backs and hay presto..its off.Thanks for all the help and support lads.Soaking it penetrating spray thru the drilled holes definitely helped..when we hit it on the anvil the fluid started to work thru the splines.
Still cant figure out how the spline is held onto the pulley but it doesnt matter now I have it off.