White smoke at high RPM

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
I have a video on my phone but not in a good wifi area at the moment to post it.
 

Orange2009

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Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Ok well.. Pulled the valve cover and everything "looks" ok now I know you really need to pull the pieces to check for straightness ect. Since I'm not 100% sure how to find TDC on each cyl I turned it over and found "close to TDC" and each rocker had play, didn't seem like too much but yes this is a quick inspect and I didn't have my feeler gauges with me. Soo I fired it up, good news is there isn't any smoke coming through the head so I would assume we can cross valve seats an guides off the list. Bad news is I'm guessing this means a ring and or scored cylinder wall. As soon as I can find torque specs... And time ill pull the head I guess. Also there was a small amount of smoke from the dipstick tube after ability down. So I am guessing rings.

Local parts shop had plenty of compression gauges... None for diesel though.
 

motorhead

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Sounds like a sticking injector. I didn't seem to see anyone suggesting some good fuel injector cleaner and maybe a good dose of Marvel mystery oil or some ashless 2 stroke oil with the injector cleaner FIRST before going with pulling the injectors.
 

hodge

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Ok well.. Pulled the valve cover and everything "looks" ok now I know you really need to pull the pieces to check for straightness ect. Since I'm not 100% sure how to find TDC on each cyl I turned it over and found "close to TDC" and each rocker had play, didn't seem like too much but yes this is a quick inspect and I didn't have my feeler gauges with me. Soo I fired it up, good news is there isn't any smoke coming through the head so I would assume we can cross valve seats an guides off the list. Bad news is I'm guessing this means a ring and or scored cylinder wall. As soon as I can find torque specs... And time ill pull the head I guess. Also there was a small amount of smoke from the dipstick tube after ability down. So I am guessing rings.

Local parts shop had plenty of compression gauges... None for diesel though.
Harbor Freight has a couple different diesel compression tester sets.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Sounds like a sticking injector. I didn't seem to see anyone suggesting some good fuel injector cleaner and maybe a good dose of Marvel mystery oil or some ashless 2 stroke oil with the injector cleaner FIRST before going with pulling the injectors.
Ok makes sense because it only does it at high rpm BUT would a hydrolocked situation like I caused do this? And would it burn oil... Or what it seems that it's doing right now.
 

Wild and Free

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Sounds like a sticking injector. I didn't seem to see anyone suggesting some good fuel injector cleaner and maybe a good dose of Marvel mystery oil or some ashless 2 stroke oil with the injector cleaner FIRST before going with pulling the injectors.

I actually suggested the ash less 2 stroke oil a few pages back already.

Don't bother wasting time on injector cleaners as a vast majority are alcohol based and with todays low lubricity fuel can cause more issues.

I would just suggest takeing the injectors to a fuel shop for a check up. Blue at high rpms is a sign of raw fuel yet.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Yea wild I remember the post... I need to try that just time hasn't been on my side
 

kuboman

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Dec 6, 2009
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It sounds like injector/delivery valve problem. As suggested earlier I would use a good injector cleaner/ conditioner. I said good. Some do contain alcohol but most do not. Most high speed misses and smoke are injection related. A conditioner is a cheap way to start. Don't expect miracles but it might help.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
It sounds like injector/delivery valve problem. As suggested earlier I would use a good injector cleaner/ conditioner. I said good. Some do contain alcohol but most do not. Most high speed misses and smoke are injection related. A conditioner is a cheap way to start. Don't expect miracles but it might help.
Not sure if you read all the posts but this was after a hydrolocked situation. Would that cause this? Also I don't want to help it I want to fix it. I'm hoping it is a head gasket between 2 cylinders if the 2 stroke oil doesn't work. Used to do it every full up on my trucks but got lazy and tired of measuring out.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
It sounds like injector/delivery valve problem. As suggested earlier I would use a good injector cleaner/ conditioner. I said good. Some do contain alcohol but most do not. Most high speed misses and smoke are injection related. A conditioner is a cheap way to start. Don't expect miracles but it might help.
Not sure if you read all the posts but this was after a hydrolocked situation. Would that cause this? Also I don't want to help it I want to fix it. I'm hoping it is a head gasket between 2 cylinders if the 2 stroke oil doesn't work. Used to do it every full up on my trucks but got lazy and tired of measuring out.

Here is a video of a cold start. And what it's doing, I had to load over 3G so not sure how the quality will be.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1onSum8btiQ
 

kuboman

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Dec 6, 2009
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Not sure if you read all the posts but this was after a hydrolocked situation. Would that cause this? Also I don't want to help it I want to fix it. I'm hoping it is a head gasket between 2 cylinders if the 2 stroke oil doesn't work. Used to do it every full up on my trucks but got lazy and tired of measuring out.

Here is a video of a cold start. And what it's doing, I had to load over 3G so not sure how the quality will be.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1onSum8btiQ
I doubt you had hydraulic lock. That would cause a bent rod and weak compression in at least one cylinder. I have seen your situation before and every time it was worn injectors and or delivery valves. You tractor like ate some water through the diesel and scored up your injection system. I would still try a good injector clean and conditioner and it might spruce it up some.

woops, thought I was responding to the OP. Sorry. I direct my comments to the OP.
 
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Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
I doubt you had hydraulic lock. That would cause a bent rod and weak compression in at least one cylinder. I have seen your situation before and every time it was worn injectors and or delivery valves. You tractor like ate some water through the diesel and scored up your injection system. I would still try a good injector clean and conditioner and it might spruce it up some.

woops, thought I was responding to the OP. Sorry. I direct my comments to the OP.
It was hydrolocked I got coolant into the intake. This was not a gradual thing it was immediate after maintenance. But I screwed up and some coolant spilled into the intake from the top radiator hose. I'm not wanting to sound like repeating myself but this wasn't a "over time" thing. This was like:

Perfect tractor but time for maintenance.....
While I'm at it lets replace that cracked shroud...
And have a beer...

Boom dumb mistake..

Try to start it... Hmm battery must be dead..
Another beer...
Try again. Cranks over, rough, starts and mediate smoke. It was hydrolocked... Or well I should say enough coolant in at least one cylinder to cause an issue.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Well put 10oz of 2 stroke and let it run for 45 or so minutes, including driving around, no heavy work/digging ect. The smoke seems to be a lot better BUT not gone. There is a prominent miss fire sound at higher rpm or when I take off or lift bucket. Called dealer and he estimated 1,000 in labor. That's IF it's a rod. Plus parts. I explained everything to him that I did to screw up plus tried to diagnose and he said that he will almost bet there is a bent rod. He said the starter has every bit of enough power to bend one.. He also said that it may need a little bit of honing to the cylinders, and that's why the 2 stroke oil is helping (coating the walls) sounds like a trip to the dealer it is.. Sad news but I have over $22,000 tied up in this machine and with only 394 hours I want to make sure that it's fixed properly.
 

Apogee

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Jan 22, 2012
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Orange,

Huge bummer!

Why don't you tackle it yourself? These engines are fairly simple. At the very least, you can pull it down and find the problem yourself. You will learn a lot in the process and will feel good about the finished product. Yes, it might cost a bit in tools if you don't have what you need, but it will still save you a bunch in labor cost.

They should ABSOLUTELY hone/re-ring it while it's apart. I'd also have the head checked for cracks and the valves ground while I was at it.

You can do it!

Just my $.02,

Steve
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Orange,

Huge bummer!

Why don't you tackle it yourself? These engines are fairly simple. At the very least, you can pull it down and find the problem yourself. You will learn a lot in the process and will feel good about the finished product. Yes, it might cost a bit in tools if you don't have what you need, but it will still save you a bunch in labor cost.

They should ABSOLUTELY hone/re-ring it while it's apart. I'd also have the head checked for cracks and the valves ground while I was at it.

You can do it!

Just my $.02,

Steve

Yea trust me I want to and have been around engines and inside a handful, thing is time, tools and space to work on it is the issue... I'm praying its a head gasket between 2 cylinders. If I did it myself I'm thinking with my work schedule it would take me over a month... I also have a few sidewalk tear outs, and a couple retaining walls to do. So I guess it's better I just have it done ASAP
 

Apogee

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Yeah, it makes sense...

Fingers crossed on the head gasket!!!!

Please keep us posted.

Steve
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Well took the tractor to the dealer yesterday to have them give their opinion. He said that he bets its a bent rod... we will see when they run some tests. tomorrow there gonna do a compression test, and then go from there. I told him i was hoping that it was the head gasket but he said that while it is possible, i would have better luck with the lottery.
 

hodge

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Well took the tractor to the dealer yesterday to have them give their opinion. He said that he bets its a bent rod... we will see when they run some tests. tomorrow there gonna do a compression test, and then go from there. I told him i was hoping that it was the head gasket but he said that while it is possible, i would have better luck with the lottery.
That doesn't sound like a good way to start the week. Thank you for the updates- besides curiosity, it is a good learning curve for everybody. Keep liquid out of the cylinders, unless it's diesel.
 

Orange2009

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Kubota BX25, BH, FEL, 60" belly mower, 48" tiller, Middle buster, Stripe kit etc
Mar 25, 2013
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Oxford, Ohio
Well the dealer called and said he ran several tests geared towards a bent rod.... from the sound of his voicemail everything passed, they tested the fuel and found it to be "Bad" im not sure what all they tested and by the time i got the message they were all closed, so I'll call tomorrow to get the details. Im not buying that it was the fuel AT ALL but hey im down with that if its the truth, and after I approved them 1,200 in labor i dont see why they would have any reason to be dishonest. Im still totally lost at how it would run like a top to locking up to running like crap after a basic service and coolant flush.

is it possible that the piston forced coolant the "wrong way" into the fuel system?
 

davemskinner

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Well the dealer called and said he ran several tests geared towards a bent rod.... from the sound of his voicemail everything passed, they tested the fuel and found it to be "Bad" im not sure what all they tested and by the time i got the message they were all closed, so I'll call tomorrow to get the details. Im not buying that it was the fuel AT ALL but hey im down with that if its the truth, and after I approved them 1,200 in labor i dont see why they would have any reason to be dishonest. Im still totally lost at how it would run like a top to locking up to running like crap after a basic service and coolant flush.

is it possible that the piston forced coolant the "wrong way" into the fuel system?
Not so much force coolant into the injector the wrong way but, maybe bent the pintle causing the injector to perform poorly. The whole thing smacks of injector trouble. Looking forward to hearing the final result. Good luck!