Shed upgrade started

RCW

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Saw the conversation of crusher run cost. I’m hoping to have a load delivered before the weekend. $165 for material (~15 yards at $11/yd) plus $100 hauling. Haul is about 15 miles.

Never bought from these folks, so hoping it’s good stuff....first time trying crusher run for driveway topping.

We’ve had some water issues at the bottom of a hill. Stayed away from anything with fines , but I’ve re-routed much of the water over the years.
 

Old_Paint

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I think you're going to like the crusher run for your driveway, but you may experience a few more potholes that need attention. It's really easy to work with. However, it's pretty small stuff, which may splatter out of any puddles that form. But it compacts very nicely and makes excellent parking spots or finishing an area that you don't really want to concrete. For low traffic, it's indestructible. Not sure how it will hold up on a long driveway, compared to something like #57 or #47.

After all that effort getting the form leveled and squared, I realized I had at least 10 yards more crusher in there than I really needed. Silly me moved the elevation of the slab down 3 inches after looking at a pretty large gap under the form on the back side. Not something that's a huge problem or not addressable, but certainly something that may affect inspection negatively. The missus came out to help me with grading the gravel (4" below form level). We got about 2 feet of the end closest to the little red shed graded and had already moved several wheelbarrow loads to the opposite end of the pad, and I was informed there was a strike looming in the labor forces if I didn't come up with a more efficient way to move that much gravel. So, had to remove one end of the form and get the 'bota back in there. I took about 12 bucket loads out of the pad, and even then, barely dented the amount of material we were going to have to move. Back to the drawing board. Raised the form 3.5 inches. WOW, what a difference that made (and put the form right back where I originally intended to put it anyway. All said and done, I had to put about 6 scoops (about half of what I removed) back in the pad.

Lessons learned. 1. If you set the level of the pad and order crushed stone to fill it, don't move the form. 2. There's more than one way to skin a cat besides jerking his rectum over his head. A 2x4 added to my form will quite nicely close up the gap on the back side of the form.

As stated before, I can't rave enough about the form pins. My feaux pas with the form has made me put EVERY ONE of them in at least twice. Pulling up a 3 foot long pin is easy with a pipe wrench or channel lock pliers. This will be my saving grace with the missus after today. I nearly had a mutiny, yet impressed her with my cipherin' and gazintas so much she was once again glad she had a hubby that could do these things. (even if he has to do them 3 times).

But, bottom line, pad graded (by hand, mind you). Gonna go get some 2x4's tomorrow to add to the form and completely overhaul it. Still have a few low spots in the gravel to address, but will likely reset the form tomorrow and run the compactor on it before I try to work on the low spots with more gravel. Didn't get as far as I wanted today. Got air trapped in my water level that halted work while fidgeting around with it for nearly an hour. The air bubbles simply refused to rise to the top. My wife has the patience of Job when she works with me. I've got all the patience of a nuclear bomb, and a shorter fuse when gravity fails to work as expected. Doing several things the "old school" way on this project. I feel the same way about old school "experience" versus Common Core Math. Sometimes, "close enough" really isn't. Then again, a real laser that can be seen in daylight would have been the cat's pajamas on this project.
 
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Old_Paint

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That is a metal detectorist's shovel /scoop. You got some buried treasure somewhere on the property?
Maybe Rick and Marty Lagina are looking in the wrong place? I get plenty top-pocket Bobby Dazzlers, but none of them worth anything. More broken glass than anything else. I think the property was the city dump at one time.
 

SAR Tracker

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I'm kinda in the same boat - 2 concrete contractors e-mailed/phoned/texted..... no response.
 
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Old_Paint

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Well, had another turd floater followed up with an all night soaker last night, so everything's soggy again, except the pad with all the crusher run on it. It's hard as a rock, right out to the bevels I put on it for the footing. Must have compacted it pretty good. Finally quit raining around lunch time. Got most of the perimeter rebar done today, but ran out of ties with about a dozen or so left to do. Cut 2' pins to tie the perimeter bars to, and spaced them about 4 inches apart with the top one about 4 inches below slab grade. Gonna cut the remesh tomorrow and see how bad I get scratched up wrangling that stuff. Never was fond of unrolling mesh. If the end gets loose, it's usually bad if you're in the way. Plastic sheeting (moisture barrier) down. Just gotta go through and reset the form now, and trench out for a 1" conduit and a 1" water pipe. Gonna put the pipe inside the building in case I ever decide to put a wash-up sink out there or something, but mostly because I want the high pressure line for fire protection and washing off the 'bota. Will have to add a drain later if i decide to put in a sink. The city's pretty funny about any water exiting any building, and don't want me tying any sewer discharge into my existing line. Not sure they can actually tell me not to, considering it's MY sewer line, so long as the plumbing meets code. I think I have plenty elevation drop to do it, but they want me to pay for another tap for a separate building. Not gonna. Ain't worth the headache or the cost. Don't even get me started about HVAC. Definitely not gonna mention the woodstove that I'm going to add later.

Picked up the additional 2x4's for the form today as well. Of course all Lowes had was the Douglas Fir at premium price. I hate messing up good lumber with concrete. Guess I can use them for braces while building the shed. Hope they don't crawl off tonight. Pretty damp out there, and no tarps left to cover them.

Really wanted to plumb a sewer line out there, but the city won't let me. They insist a separate building has to have separate tap (another $2500 in their pocket) and that it cannot be classified as "unattached storage" or "Barn" if it has restroom facilities in it. It has to be a "Garage" or "additional residence". Makes ya wanna bang yer head on a wall. Can't even have a muck room that ain't attached to the main residence.

So, tomorrow, reset the form, with the 2x4 addition, re-level it, put down the mesh and get it raised to half-grade and tied to the rebar, and trench out for the water line and conduit. I think I can be ready for pre-pour inspection on Monday if the inspector can come out. However, there's lots of new construction in the area, which I'm sure keeps him busier than a 3 legged cat coverin' up on a marble floor. Well, for a city government job, that is. Probably only gets 6 hours a day coffee break. with all the new subdivision work going on.

Strangely, can't get anyone to quote me a decent price for concrete finishing. Pretty much spreading butter on toast. No jam necessary. Should be easy money, but the best price I can get is $2K and I pay for the concrete too. No problem paying for the concrete, but $2K to pour, screed, float and finish a 840 square foot slab? Geez, should be done by lunch time. Calculations for a 4" 840 square foot slab with an additional 8" x 12" footing around the perimeter says 14 yards +/-. I figure 16 yards, TOPS, for the concrete delivery. He can back right up to the form (if we wait for a few days). Too soggy at the moment, but we're not supposed to get rain again until Tuesday week. Won't have to get more than 3 chutes dirty, and I have a pile of sand waiting to clean the truck on so I can get rid of the rubble easy. There is literally going to be NOTHING left to do except pour mud on it and smear it flat. One jerk quoted $7K if he supplied the concrete. Told him I'd tear out everything I did and he could have the job to do it all over again for that price. Bet I can find a use for all that gravel. Before anyone says "It's all easy until you have to do it", I HAVE DONE IT, but had a half-dozen coworkers helping. I just don't want to finish a slab that size by myself. I built swimming pools for a living and to put me through college. I know EXACTLY what's involved in concrete work. Been there, done that, got the melanomas to prove it.
 
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Magicman

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Probably the "finisher" finding laborers is the hitch. About the only ones willing to work here are from "South of the Border".
 

Old_Paint

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Spent the day finishing up rebar ties, and resetting the form after adding a 2x4 to the top of it so I could more easily seal up the bottom of the form across the back side. Same level as before, or so I thought. Looks like I'm ordering mud for a 6" slab, not 4'. Shot it with the laser level tonight, because I was pretty sure that it was a little deeper, and that we still had some low spots in the gravel. I'm not moving that form again, that's for sure. It's square, level, and straight (as straight as warping lumber gets anyway). Gonna cost a few more yards of mud, but the time to finish it won't be any different. So, calling the inspector tomorrow is off unless I can finish up pretty early and set the appointment for Tuesday Still need to stub in the plumbing, drive a ground rod, and cut/lay the mesh, but I figure I can finish tomorrow. The missus is a great helper. Don't have to explain things to her twice or three times. Show her once, then get outta the way.
IMG_2638[1].JPG
 
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Old_Paint

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Sometimes I think I was a little over-enthusiastic, but the missus agrees, gotta protect the stuff I spend so much money on. Weather was not kind to my first riding mower, and has not to the second either. Don't want the Kubota to wind up in the same condition. Gotta get that stuff inside. Won't hurt my feelings to have a place to work on stuff outta the rain, either. Don't have to throw down the job or hurry it if a rain cloud blows by.

Sent out 4 requests for quote from local concrete distributors this morning. Looks like no one wants a job that doesn't last more than a few hours. Must be a waste of their time when a DIY'er handles the labor intensive parts that cost so much money, and the ONLY material will be the concrete. My son-in-law said he'd help me finish, if I can schedule it on a day he can take off work. He kinda owes me for helping put up a play center in his back yard for the grandkids. Between mine and his experience, we should be able to get an acceptable finish on it. It's a tractor shed, not the Taj Mahal. Just gonna need a helper or two to help with the screeding and pouring, and may have that covered with other kids and the missus.

Gonna try to finish up the prep work today and give the inspector a call. Getting that form set yesterday just about whipped me.

There's just a certain satisfaction of doing something like this for yourself, ya know?
 

Lil Foot

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Never seen a moisture vapor like that. Guess that's the difference between building in AL vs AZ.
Pics of the slab for my garage in the high country:
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North Idaho Wolfman

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Yea AZ doesn't have Vapor / Moisture issues like other places.
This is our house foundation and slab.
74.9 CY of concrete sitting on 2" of foam and vapor barrier.
12" bottom x 24" high foundation 4.5" thick house 6.5" thick garage
I don't even want to admit how long it took to set the foundation grade, forms, plumbing and electrical.

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Magicman

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Hopefully you will soon scrap up enough help to get-r-done Paint. There is a certain amount of satisfaction in diy.
 

Old_Paint

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I'm assuming a lot of the red PECS is for floor heating. That's a deep footing on that house, too. I don't need anything quite that deep here, not for an equipment shed anyway. I seriously doubt the one on my house is more than 12" deep, if that. I don't think this subdivision was in the city limits in 1975, and the developers and builders got away with a lot of stuff. They took that money and are living well now, with no repercussions for all the problems that are showing up the poor workmanship in these homes. Having a bunch of blasting going on less than 1/2 mile away probably isn't helping matters either. But the cheap house they're building in the new development is $435K. That's OK, they can drag my property value right up with the new stuff. It's already worth $60K more than I paid for it.

It quit raining at lunch time on Saturday. There's STILL water running out of the gravel I put in that pad. You're using a black poly. I just used clear. Doesn't get quite so cold here, so no foam insulation or floor heating gonna happen in a tractor shed.

I was going to put a muck room out there, and just tee into my existing sewer line. Nope, the City's not havin' any of that. Separate buildings have to have separate sewer taps so they can charge double the sewer charges, as well as a $2500 tap charge. I said "NO, no sewer". I asked about something like a mop sink. NOPE. ANYTHING that comes out of an enclosed building here is considered grey water and MUST be sewered. So, I guess I'm washing the tractor and implements outside.

Finished up the rebar, remesh, and stubbed in the conduit and water line today. Ready for the inspector. Will have a few discussions with them about what they need to see next time, namely any requirements for pressure reduction on the water line. I'd rather have the high pressure line for washing equipment off without having to use the pressure washer. Blew the letters off my LA-535 boom last time I did that.
IMG_2639[1].JPG

What looks like a pile of rocks near the bucket is just dirt clods. That's how sticky the clay is here. In a couple more days, the clods will be nearly rock hard, and impossible to break up. A couple days after that, my only choice will be to pile them up somewhere, soak 'em with the hose, and then run the tiller over them a few times and mix that sand pile with 'em. What looks like white poly is actually clear. There's just that much moisture condensing on the underside right now.

Had to get two coils of remesh because 35' wide slabs require 7 strips of 5' wide mesh, 23.5 ft long. Just figuring 24 ft., that's 168 ft. The rolls are 150 feet, aren't they. But, got another project in the plans about 50 feet from this one for another large pour. The 'scraps' from this job will do well for re-use on the next pour. Did my best to not cut any lumber that didn't need cutting, so I could re-use it later. Just irks me to mess up expensive lumber for concrete form. Won't be long, the 'bota won't need it's security blanket. I may keep it on there for a few weeks after the shed's done, just so it doesn't have nightmares.
 

Old_Paint

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Yea AZ doesn't have Vapor / Moisture issues like other places.
This is our house foundation and slab.
74.9 CY of concrete sitting on 2" of foam and vapor barrier.
12" bottom x 24" high foundation 4.5" thick house 6.5" thick garage
I don't even want to admit how long it took to set the foundation grade, forms, plumbing and electrical.

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Howdaheck did you pack the slopes on those footings? That's almost too perfect. Ain't no way you're gonna do that with the goo we have around here. You pack one side of that shape, and the other side will turn to mush and run off in the hole. Very nice looking work. DIY?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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Howdaheck did you pack the slopes on those footings? That's almost too perfect. Ain't no way you're gonna do that with the goo we have around here. You pack one side of that shape, and the other side will turn to mush and run off in the hole. Very nice looking work. DIY?
I've been doing contracting work for a few years, this is my house and it's 99% been done by me.
Our land is 99% fine sand, water disappears in seconds from it hitting the ground, made for a really nice solid hard packed foundation.
The only thing I haven't done is pour and finish the concrete, it was way more than I wanted to tackle.
It was done by 5 concrete finishing companies all working together, it had to have water reducer added to it to make up for the barrier and the foam as no water was getting through that.
It was also done on one of the hottest days of the year 90+, and that for us is super hot.

It will get hydronic heated sidewalks and garage skirt too (100% Geothermal powered) to make dealing with winter nicer.

We don't have building permits or inspections out here, you can build with anything you want and any how you want, I know because I've seen some pretty scary builds.

I wanted a super warm home that is cheap and easy to heat, so this has raised heal (energy trusses) and ended up being R48 walls, and R66 ceiling, most think I'll be able to heat it with a Bic lighter.

It's about 75% done right now and we are hoping to move in soon.

Getting Equipment and supplies out of the weather is a real battle up here too.
I'm hoping once the house is all done, that the materials cost go down and I can get a shop built.
 
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Old_Paint

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I've been doing contracting work for a few years, this is my house and it's 99% been done by me.
Our land is 99% fine sand, water disappears in seconds from it hitting the ground, made for a really nice solid hard packed foundation.
The only thing I haven't done is pour and finish the concrete, it was way more than I wanted to tackle.
It was done by 5 concrete finishing companies all working together, it had to have water reducer added to it to make up for the barrier and the foam as no water was getting through that.
It was also done on one of the hottest days of the year 90+, and that for us is super hot.

It will get hydronic heated sidewalks and garage skirt too (100% Geothermal powered) to make dealing with winter nicer.

We don't have building permits or inspections out here, you can build with anything you want and any how you want, I know because I've seen some pretty scary builds.

I wanted a super warm home that is cheap and easy to heat, so this has raised heal (energy trusses) and ended up being R48 walls, and R66 ceiling, most think I'll be able to heat it with a Bic lighter.

It's about 75% done right now and we are hoping to move in soon.

Getting Equipment and supplies out of the weather is a real battle up here too.
I'm hoping once the house is all done, that the materials cost go down and I can get a shop built.
Gorgeous work. Not to mention, free (geothermal) energy is a good thing too. That much insulation, shouldn't be much cost in cooling it either.

Around here, they throw up enormous houses on 4 inch slabs with 12" footings, then wonder why they crack during dry weather. The clay holds water for a long time, which is one of the problems requiring the moisture barrier, and then shrinks at least 10% when it dries. I measured one spot in my yard with it wet, and again with it dry, and there was nearly 2 inches elevation difference on a rod I drove 3 feet into the ground. How much of that was my grade reference changing is almost impossible to tell, but the point is, this is very dynamic soil. I don't think there was ever a percolation test done here. I miss the sandy loam of the Tombigbee valley. Easy diggins, and drains so much better. Every pool built around here that I know of has to have a de-watering device under the shell, or the shell floats right out of the ground during heavy rains. But, having been out west (Barstow, CA) and even farther west and south (South Australia), I've come to appreciate the amount of fresh water we have here. We sometimes get more rain in an afternoon than South Australia gets in a year.

I got the building permit on 04/01 (maybe that was a bad idea?) I've done most of the work on that myself or with some help from my wife or son for the heavy lifting or someone to hold the other end of the tape measure. My left shoulder still isn't 100%, but I'm giving it a good workout to get it better by June. I'm a lousy foreman because I get quiet when I'm working, (usually thinking about the next 4 steps in advance) and forget to tell others what I need them to do, so do most of it myself. With two helpers, I'd have to think about the next 12 things in advance to keep them busy. My brain would melt and run out my ears and get all over my shirt.

I tried too hard to go too fast on this at first, and made a couple boo-boos that made doing it right a lot harder. I should have set the form the way it is now first, and then graded the gravel after the form was set and complete. Got the cart before the horse, and made a mess that I had to correct. I took a couple yards out of it, and now wishing I hadn't. What I took out is gonna have to be replaced by concrete. Concrete is $160/yard plus $30 truck fee, and my calculations say I better order for a 6" slab. Running out on an order is a lot worse than having too much, but I don't like wasting anything that costs me that much. Like anything else, it's extremely high. Strangely, we're surrounded by quarries and cement mills. There are no less than 10 cement plants within 100 miles of here, and 6 within 30 miles. I know, I've made service calls in every one of them at some point in my career. We may even have more gravel quarries than we have churches in the area. And we live in the Bible Belt.
 

Old_Paint

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Well, stalled out trying to find a contractor that doesn't want to rip me off because there's higher paying work (because of deeper pockets on new construction) to be had. Got my best offer today from the same dude that did my siding. One thing I will NOT be doing if I use him again is pay in advance. Got hung out to dry with a couple sheets of plywood over one window in winter because his crews were all tied up on new construction. My job was paid for, so no rush for him to finish. One good thing about concrete work, it doesn't take long (1 day usually) to get a slab poured for a house. They're gonna be hungry sooner than I'm gonna be ready to feed 'em.

Then, the local concrete vendors (who already want an arm and a leg because I'm not a regular customer or contractor) are all busier than 3 legged cats coverin' up on a marble floor, so feel like they can just gouge me for whatever they want. Nope. Made it VERY clear, I can probably wait until they have NO work, and are desperate. Got one quote at $110/yard. Just like lumber, everything's stupid expensive. One vendor wanted $160/yd, plus $35/truckload for "EPA fees". They max out at 9 yards per load, so I'm looking at 2 loads minimum.

So, got up this morning, got the weed-eater out and took care of all the spots I can't get with my mower. Finished up around lunch time, and thought I had an easy afternoon ahead. Then I see the missus pulling out the lights on the vinyl windows. Uh-oh, she's got the spring cleaning bug. Started spraying stuff to clean the window casings, which naturally ran down the vinyl siding, which had PLENTY old pollen and algae and mold and other assorted life forms stuck to it. Left me no choice but to get out the pressure washer (the one I blew the letters off my LA535 with) and the hand sprayer and the extension ladder.

I'm pretty much whipped this evening. If the Co-op was open tomorrow, I'd go get a culvert to play with and get some seat time putting that in. Rain has eased up a bit, so not quite so soggy the past week.