L-175 Battery Problem

[In Utopia]

Several weeks ago had a neighbor use the Kubota with loader to fill deer feeders. Well, as luck would have it he left the key on for for about 2 weeks. Ran the 4 year old Interstate down to where it wouldn't even take a charge. I used my battery charger with 200amp jump start. Fired right up. He had some kind of battery charger/ rejuvenator he said might bring it back. Plugged it in and a day later it blew the battery up. Blew both caps off, split the top from the case halfway around.
Had to leave town so I asked him to take it down to the local hardware store so they could order a new one. I don't know if they took it for a core or not, didn't care just needed a battery.
Put the new battery in today after installing a new control valve for the loader.
Went to start it, didn't spin fast enough to start. Used the decomp to get it to spin faster, nope, didn't spin as fast as it used to. Thought the battery was bad, nope over 13 volts. Checked and clean all points of contact. Same thing.
It tries to start but it's not spinning fast enough.
Now, I'm trying to remember, but I think the old group 24 battery might have been 1000 cold cranking amps. This new battery is on 800. Could it be that this isn't enough to spin it fast enough, or is the starter giving out?
Does anyone know if the 800 cold cc is enough, and if not I need suggestions as to what to get. I called the Interstate distributor in San Antonio, but they weren't any help. Went to their website, no help there either except they said they couldn't find a group 24 with 1000 cold cranking amps.
If I need those amps I'll have to start a search for one, and I'm not against having to fab a new battery holder.
Thanks in advance.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

need to know stuff...
how old is the tractor ?
how many hours ?
what does owner's manual say about battery ?
how cold is it ?
original starter ?

according to tractordata it's a mid '70s , 17HP tractor

If this IS your tractor model , then an 800CCA should have more than enough power IF fully charged. '13 volts' doesn't mean 'charged', you must do a 'load test' to see how many AMPS the battery can deliver. Every new battery I get, goes on a proper charger for at least 24 hours, NO exceptions. Currently I have 10 from the 'fleet' in my 50*F shop, that get 'topped up/checked' every month.

BTW blowing up a battery is a serious issue ! The usual culprit is trying to recharge a FROZEN battery. Safety point: Wherever it blew apart WILL be covered in ACID. Spray a concentrated mixture of baking soda and water EVERYWHERE in that room. Bubbles are troubles... baking soda 'fizzes' until acid is neutralized( safe).

 

[In Utopia]

Mid 70's, no way to narrow it down.
Unknown hours, tach wasn't working when I bought it about 8 years ago.
No mention of battery in manual.
Temp in the low 60's.
I'm guessing starter is original.
Battery was outside when it blew, no collateral damage.
I'll put it on a 2amp trickle overnight or longer if charger doesn't shut off.
Kinda hoping I'd hear from a fellow 175 owner and maybe they'd tell me what the cranking amps are on their battery and brand.

 

[Russell King]

I have a L185 and the battery is not 1000CCA. Something like 700 or so.

Since you just messed with the hydraulic system I would suspect that is the problem. If you can bypass the hydraulics and have the pump just dumping into the sump to see how it spins up without any pressure that would help diagnose the problem.

With the decompression knob out it should spin easily and the battery amps could be very limited and still spin the engine at a good rate.

I did have to replace the starter on my tractor due to the speed it would spin the engine. The repair shop said it was pretty rusted up inside and should be replaced. I didn’t think about getting a newer version (gear reduction) starter and just replaced it with a rebuilt starter of the same old style.

I would start with the hydraulic pump and then see what happens from there.

Good luck

 

[In Utopia]

I'll give that a try, thanks.
If that's what it is, then that's a whole other can of worms I just opened.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

How old are the battery cables? Are they OEM molded ends or 'repair' versions ?
If more than 4-5 years, replace BOTH of them with 'fat' (2ga) cables not 'thin' 6ga ones.
Test is simple.
Disconnect battery, use 'jumper' cable to connect battery sitting on ground to starter big stud and good ground, Test spin the starter to see/hear the spinning speed. If fast, replace both cables. If slow, remove starter and replace or rebuild.
Also being mid 70s, seriously consider a 100% rewiring of the tractor. Copper stranded wire will 'decompose' from the inside out( that 'pretty green' ) causing all sorts of 'weird' electrical problems. Five DECADES is a lot of time for copper to corrode !

 

[In Utopia]

They are 2 gauge with clean ends and clean spots where the ground and + cables go.
The jumper test as you described was on the schedule this morning right after I see if I can relieve the pressure on the hydraulic system.

 

[fried1765]

Mid 70's, no way to narrow it down.
Unknown hours, tach wasn't working when I bought it about 8 years ago.
No mention of battery in manual.
Temp in the low 60's.
I'm guessing starter is original.
Battery was outside when it blew, no collateral damage.
I'll put it on a 2amp trickle overnight or longer if charger doesn't shut off.
Kinda hoping I'd hear from a fellow 175 owner and maybe they'd tell me what the cranking amps are on their battery and brand.

You ABSOLUTELY DO NOT NEED 1000 CCA...... for a 17HP tractor!
Walmart ....Everstart MAXX for the best battery brand for the buck!
Interstate battery marketing is pure consumer advertising hype!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Well he 'might' need it , IF he had electric heat in the cab,1000w stereo blaring away and 10KW of LED lights all on AND was trying to start the engine.....
Also I'm betting the charging system MAYBE puts back 10-12 amps ?

I do agree though a high capacity battery is better though.

 

[DustyRusty]

Hard to find a 1000 CCA battery today. I use a Group 27 battery in my 1979 Ford dump truck and I could always find 1000 or 950 CCA batteries, however, today the best that I can get is about a 750 CCA battery. I just did a quick search and found one, and it is over $400 and marketed as a "deep cycle" battery.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

my service manual says OEM should have been 575 cca, equates to a size group 24 in todays standards.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

for giggles, as snows, falling, found this PDQ...

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

group 31 though, NOT a 'small' battery.
semis use( used ?) 4 in parallel......

 

[jaxs]

I wish I could cast long distance feelers to pinpoint the problems but that isn't feasible. This calls for systematic testing ,tinkering can easily lead to worse. If the guy who blew battery wasn't injured,he already dodged the bullet once. Considering electrical system has been exposed twice to conditions which often melt components and/or set them ablaze I recommend having system checked by an electrical technician. You've already learned some expensive lessons ,here's some that are free and can possibly avoid future mistakes. It is best to limit battery charger input to 10 amps max with 1-2 being preferable. Hooking a charger with 200 amps to a battery WILL damage it,how bad is the question. If you can't wait until a battery can be slow charged , booster cables or booster box is far less harmful than slamming battery with 200 amps. The difference between connecting a booster battery and boost charger is that boost battery only delivers high amps momentarily TO STARTER while cranking. The boost charger crams high amps into battery from the moment it's connected until disconnected. If you can't take my word that booster charging is bad for battery maybe you will reconsider when I show you why it's bad for your health. 200 amps banging on plates of lead-acid battery causes volatile gas which is harmful if inhaled and explosive. A poor/failing contact between plates or cables WILL make a spark and that spark can easily cause KABOOM. As for ambulances,fire engines and Bubba's rock crawler having dual 320 amp alternators. (A) They are not intended to recharge discharged batteries, they only put out extreme amps while accessories are demanding lots of amps. (B) Batteries in those vehicles are short lived.
It helps extend battery life if never allowed to deeply discharge and/or sit in state of discharge for extended time. For that reason quality tenders pay for themselves in added battery life on seldom used vehicles. If and when you have a totally discharged battery that will not take charge as subject did here, connect a low amp charger then put a load accross terminals not to exceed 25% charger output until charge meter shows normal charge rate. Using that trick could have saved a ton of trouble in the case being discussed. I'm aware some feel Harbor Freight products are the way to go but I respectfully disagree and recommend Deltran brand chargers.

 

[In Utopia]

OK, that problem is solved. Took a closer look at the 2gauge cables. Cut the shrink wrap off and sure enough there was the green stuff.
Replaced both with 2/0 cable and that fixed that problem.
Now the next one. Installed the new Summit control valve. Got it to work, but the float function isn't working. I read the instructions and it said they set it before shipment. Guess they didn't do it.
Second problem is now the 3 point doesn't work. I'm guessing I need to install a power beyond fitting and attach the second of 2 hoses that come from the block shown in the pic below.

 

[Russell King]

Glad you got it spinning well again. I would not run it much until you get the hydraulics working again. You could be blowing the pump seal out and then you would be filling the engine oil with hydraulic fluid.

I assume one hard pipe (at the bottom of your picture) is from the pump into that block. Then the other hard line in the block goes to the tractor and feeds the 3PH. Original cover was basically just a connection from one side to the other.

I further assume that the cover you show is the correct cover that now is basically allowing the pump outlet flow to be piped to the valve (Pin) you installed. That valve should then have a Power Beyond port that is piped back to the block on the side going to the tractor 3PH. That seems to be the top port on your block picture.

The block and cover are shown in this thread for reference

B7100 Hydraulic block diverter (70060-00360 or 70070-00385)

These are obsolete and no longer available. I have recently been contacted by a member asking if I will make him one of these after reading how I made mine. I know this comes up from time to time and would like to gauge the interest others might have -- if I`m going to set up to make a couple, I...

www.orangetractortalks.com

The valve should also have a tank return port that will need a hose run into the tractor case.

I don’t see that you identified the valve by name and number so please do that so the smarter people will be able to identify the ports of your valve correctly.

Here is a picture from my L185 showing the block and the piping. On the left is the hard line from pump. Then the left side fitting and hose goes to the rear valve Power In port. The Power Beyond from the valve is the right side hose (has the 90 degree hose end). Just underneath the hose is the hard pipe that feeds the 3PH from the power beyond hose ending with the round block with two bolts.

The 45 degree fittings just above the block are connecting the tank return from the valve back to the tractor transmission sump. I believe that your tractor has the same connection point near the 3PH speed control knob. I can find out what size that port was but it was G3/8 BSPP from memory.

 

[fried1765]

Hard to find a 1000 CCA battery today. I use a Group 27 battery in my 1979 Ford dump truck and I could always find 1000 or 950 CCA batteries, however, today the best that I can get is about a 750 CCA battery. I just did a quick search and found one, and it is over $400 and marketed as a "deep cycle" battery.

NAPA, Tractor Supply, Walmart, etc.....all have many 950 > 1000 CCA batteries to choose from

 

[D2Cat]

NAPA, Tractor Supply, Walmart, etc.....all have many 950 > 1000 CCA batteries to choose from

Maybe under a normal inventory but not these days!

 

[fried1765]

Maybe under a normal inventory but not these days!

Readily available here in Florida!

 

[In Utopia]

Trying to keep this simple. The two lines coming from the block are hoses. I first hooked up the bottom one to the new control valve. FEL didn't respond so hooked up the other one that's on top and it worked. My assumption is I need to install a power beyond, hook up the bottom hose (now capped off) and that should restore the 3 pt. function.
Pic shows the valve I installed as per diagram including the return to line to trans case.
Not quite sure how running tractor could cause any problems.
After that is why the float function isn't working.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Trying to keep this simple. The two lines coming from the block are hoses. I first hooked up the bottom one to the new control valve. FEL didn't respond so hooked up the other one that's on top and it worked. My assumption is I need to install a power beyond, hook up the bottom hose (now capped off) and that should restore the 3 pt. function.
Pic shows the valve I installed as per diagram including the return to line to trans case.
Not quite sure how running tractor could cause any problems.
After that is why the float function isn't working. View attachment 120951 View attachment 120951

That outlet block came out of my shop so I know it well.

You need to hook OUT on the the outlet block to P on the Summit valve. I am not sure which of the two ports is OUT on your tractor but the WSM for the tractor will tell you.

Which brings us to the second hose and the valve. Did you purchase and install the power beyond sleeve? Post a picture of the new valve.

Dan