Do the Righteous go to heaven when they die?

[lsmurphy]

Just curious as to the thoughts of others here.

 

[olthumpa]

"Righteousness (also called rectitude) is an important theological concept in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (Dharma), and Zoroastrianism. It is an attribute that implies that a person's actions are justified, and can have the connotation that the person has been "judged" or "reckoned" as leading a life that is pleasing to the god/s portrayed in these belief systems."

Those that flew into the Trade centers in NY went directly to heaven , (within their belief system), but I doubt that Christians would agree. You also have different degrees of "righteous" within each belief system.

Being "Righteousness" is a very subjective concept and a very good place to start a heated discussion.

 

[hodge]

I am open about what I believe; I take ownership of it, and wear it on my sleeve. Those who are made righteous through the sacrificial death of Jesus go to heaven; there are people in heaven now.
Saying that, I am willing to say what I believe, but not argue it.

 

[TripleR]

I am open about what I believe; I take ownership of it, and wear it on my sleeve. Those who are made righteous through the sacrificial death of Jesus go to heaven; there are people in heaven now.
Saying that, I am willing to say what I believe, but not argue it.

Well said, in my youth I spent hours arguing/discussing religion etc., I no longer have the desire nor feel the need, I believe what I believe and that is pretty much it.

 

[hodge]

Well said, in my youth I spent hours arguing/discussing religion etc., I no longer have the desire nor feel the need, I believe what I believe and that is pretty much it.

When you argue, both lose. While the one argues their point, the other doesn't listen; they plan their next defense. Arguing seldom accomplishes anything, and like you, I have more important things to do. I am rooted in what I believe, and that's enough for me.

 

[lsmurphy]

"Righteousness (also called rectitude) is an important theological concept in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism (Dharma), and Zoroastrianism. It is an attribute that implies that a person's actions are justified, and can have the connotation that the person has been "judged" or "reckoned" as leading a life that is pleasing to the god/s portrayed in these belief systems."

Those that flew into the Trade centers in NY went directly to heaven , (within their belief system), but I doubt that Christians would agree. You also have different degrees of "righteous" within each belief system.

Being "Righteousness" is a very subjective concept and a very good place to start a heated discussion.

For the sake of this poll........

God is very specific as to what righteousness is, not subjective at all.

I'm asking a question for thinking man to answer, I have no desire to get into a pissing match and I dismiss 'belief systems' anyway. With more than 60 views..........three respondents.........very telling.

I doubt there are any Hindus here.

 

[Sterno]

With more than 60 views..........three respondents.........very telling.

Threads like these are nothing but a flame war waiting to happen and most people will likely want to stay out of it.

As olthumpa said, highly subjective and a very good place to start a heated discussion.

 

[lsmurphy]

Threads like these are nothing but a flame war waiting to happen and most people will likely want to stay out of it.

As olthumpa said, highly subjective and a very good place to start a heated discussion.

I gave a context for the question, it is NOT subjective and if you cannot control yourself do not respond.

 

[skeets]

I kind a figure the heaven doesn't want me and hell is afraid I'm going to take over and unionize the place

 

[lsmurphy]

The answer to the question is, no. No one goes to heaven when they die.

I can prove this from a dozen different directions but I will not go on and on unless I'm asked to.

Most 'christians' will go to church their entire lives and yet will not have read the KJV from cover to cover. Nor will they ever be taught to put all the pieces together. The bible is to be read, cover to cover, as one book, not 66 separate books and not NT and OT, but one.

Most will claim to know Christ, they do not. For example, if Christ returned today He would begin to slaughter about 7billion people, just as He killed the first born of Egypt. That's right, the same Christ that was born as Jesus, Exodus 12:12. Read Ezekiel chapters 8 and 9 and you will come to understand that God/Christ will begin the slaughter in the church, or as the bible refers to her as the 'whore'.
Read John 1:1 then go and read Genesis, Christ was with God in the beginning, the Word. The same Christ that showed His backside to Moses and who scratched out the 10 Commandments, not the long-haired-hippy-dude that the false church portrays, nor did Jesus walk the earth for three years of His life handing out get out of hell free passes.
And on that note, there is no hell either. Hell is another construct of the whore to keep good little christians in line......just more false doctrine.
There is no rapture either, sorry, you don't get out of the destruction of the earth if you are still alive at the time of His return.

Yeah, you've been lied to.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Murph I feel exactly the same way you do! Nobody and I mean nobody on the forum or on planet Earth can prove either heaven or hell is real because nobody has been to either one for a visit and came back to talk about it. They believe Heaven does exist because of stories they have been told all their life, to basically give them the warm fuzzies on the inside.

Far as I'm concerned I end up in a wood box 6 feet under dirt... exciting aint it?

 

[lsmurphy]

Murph I feel exactly the same way you do! Nobody and I mean nobody on the forum or on planet Earth can prove either heaven or hell is real because nobody has been to either one for a visit and came back to talk about it. They believe Heaven does exist because of stories they have been told all their life, to basically give them the warm fuzzies on the inside.

Far as I'm concerned I end up in a wood box 6 feet under dirt... exciting aint it?

You are correct.
There are actually three resurrections.
The resurrection of the Righteous.
The resurrection of the condemned.
The resurrection of the entire House of Israel. Those who died before Christ, before salvation was offered. See Ezekiel's 'Valley of the Dry Bones'.




One of Jesus’ most significant miracles recorded in the Bible was the resurrection of Lazarus from the dead (John 11). There are other instances of people who had been raised from the dead, but unlike those mentioned before in the Bible, Lazarus had been dead for an entire period of four days. When Lazarus died, Jesus said, “ ‘Our friend Lazarus sleeps, but I go that I may wake him up.’ Then His disciples said, ‘Lord, if he sleeps he will get well.’ However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that He was speaking about taking rest in sleep.” (John 11:11-13, NKJV).
The Bible compares death to sleep more than fifty times. When we are asleep, we are unconscious; we are not aware of the passing of time or of what is going on around us. That is what death is like as well. The Bible says, “for the living know that they will die; but the dead know nothing… their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished” (Ecclesiastes 9:5, NKJV, see also Psalm 146:4; 115:17). It makes sense that after Lazarus was raised from the dead, he doesn’t share what he saw or experienced. He didn’t have anything to tell, except that once he was dead, and now he is alive! He didn’t experience hell or heaven. He was simply “sleeping” in his tomb. Peter on the Day of Pentecost said the same of King David. “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day…For David did not ascend into the heavens…(Acts 2:29, 34).
Many Christians think of the soul as an immortal entity within us that goes on living after death. What does the Bible say? Describing the creation of human beings in the beginning, the Bible says, “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul” (Genesis 2:7, KJV). Other Bible translations say, “. . . and man became a living being” (NKJV; NIV). God did not put a soul into man. He formed the body from the dust of the ground, and then He breathed His life-giving spirit into the lifeless body—and the result was a soul, or a living being. When a person dies, the reverse takes place. The breath of life departs from the body, and the soul no longer exists. That’s what the Bible says. “The dust returns to the ground it came from, and the spirit returns to God who gave it” (Ecclesiastes 12:7, NIV). At the resurrection, God reunites the body and His life-giving spirit—and the person lives again.
If souls existed as separate entities that lived on after we died, that would mean we have immortality. However, the Bible says human beings do not have immortality. Only God is immortal (see 1 Timothy 6:15, 16). Paul says that the righteous “seek for glory, honor, and immortality” (Romans 2:7). If we had immortal souls, why would the righteous seek after something they already have?
Though we may die, Jesus says, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live.” (John 11:25). We will receive immortality when Jesus comes again (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-54). The Bible says that all those who have died—both righteous and wicked—will be raised to life in one of two resurrections. The righteous will be raised to life at Jesus’ second coming. “ For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.” (1 Thessalonians 4:16, NKJV). According to this verse, the righteous do not to go heaven when they die. They remain asleep in the grave until Jesus returns and raises them to immortal life (see 1 Corinthians 15:50-57).
The wicked are raised to life in a separate resurrection—the resurrection of condemnation. Jesus said, “Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.” (John 5:28, 29, NKJV).
The prophets never mention in the Bible that the righteous immediately go to heaven or the wicked go to hell when they die. Neither did Jesus and His apostles teach it. When Jesus was about to leave His disciples, He did not tell them they would soon come to Him. “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.” (John 14:1-3, NKJV).
When He returns, our loved ones asleep in Christ will awake from their tombs. No matter how long the time has passed, be it long or short, will be but a moment to them. By the trump of God, they are called forth from their deep slumber they will begin to think just where they ceased, awakening to a glorious immortality.
“For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible…So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’”
The last sensation was the pang of death, the last thought, that they were falling beneath the power of the grave, but then, imagine, when they arise from the tomb, to the shout,
“O Death, where is your sting?
O Hades, where is your victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:55).

 

[Rob]

this is allways going to a a very touchy subject for a lots of folks.
Is there such a place as heaven or hell , no one knows , a lot may suggest otherwise but as far no real proof has been provided to suggest that either location does.
When you die your phyisical body is either burnt or buried, either way due to the fact that the human body along with most livings things on our planet or made of carbon and water etc, they are only going to end up one way, and thats not in either of the places above.
Wether the body does have an after life soul that migrates to another place cannot be conclusivly proven and doubt ever will be.

folks blieve what they want to believe, how they perceive what happens to them after death is down to them, they may call it religion or faith , either way its not proof of an exsistance of heaven or hell. everyone needs to have some sort of faith , what form it takes varies from culture to culture.
As with most things on our planet, we all rely on data from the past to help with our lives and the future and i think this is where problems can arise.
previous data written in books etc can and does get misunderstood and also the context in which it was written.
Whatever you believe in or not, until it is proven without any doubt whatsoever , we are going going to die and thats it, nothing else, unfortunaly as humans we have a very developed and complex brain which has the ability to make us believe what ever it wants, once the seed of doubt or a suggestion is planted in the brain, thats it game over and anything is possible.

I'm not a believer to behonest, i'm just going to go wit the flow and see what life throws at me as my choices in life will have a bigger say in what happen when i die than believeing in something that i just dont think exisist.

just my opinion, andi'm not forcing anyone to think as i do.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

For me this sums it up pretty well I think.

 

[stuart]

I am a Christian and therefore accept on faith the basics. I do not profess a deep knowledge of theology or dogma, so I can't quote scripture or commentary to support this belief.

As stated earlier, righteousness is a matter of following a belief system, so the theory is that those who genuinely follow will get some eternal reward, if there is such a reward. I believe there is, but can't prove it.

When we break with the belief system, we have to consider confession and forgiveness, and fault vs culpability. For example, "thou shalt not kill" vs defending your country in time of war.

For the philosophical, I suggest you consider "Pascal's Wager" about the afterlife. Here is one reference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal's_Wager

 

[Rob]

As stated earlier, righteousness is a matter of following a belief system, so the theory is that those who genuinely follow will get some eternal reward, if there is such a reward. I believe there is, but can't prove it.
END QUOTE:




Although i am a methodist, i do not practice any religous following nor do in- volve myself in any sort of religous activities.
For myself i cannot see the point in believing in something that does not exsist, or has yet to be proven.

When ever i get drawn into thi sort of conversation i have one question, it is this.

Ok then, a classic situation, a large ship is sailing across the atlantic with 600 passangers , it hits a submerged obstacle and begin to sink rapidly.
the life boats dont work and those who do abandone ship drown very soon after or die a slow death.
Where is our God then, none of those people desvered to die, and its not a case of natural selection of the fittest.
As you say,many of them would have beenbelievers of a faith many may have been very strict religous types.
it would appear that beliefs and religion did nothing to help anyone on that ship.

My Grandfather was a submariner during the 2nd world war, he could not swim and had a fear of deep water, but he still went to war for king and country.
During his time in service at sea his sub was hit several time, luckily he and many others of the crew managed to abandon ship, but many did not servive.
He used to tell my grandmother how many of the crew were praying that they would servive, few of them did.
where was our god then......
I'm sorry but i'm just not convinced about this whole religious thing, until something earthshattering happens, i'm not subscribing to it.

I have no objections to anyone else having beliefs, its a personal thing.

rob

I'll probably get struck down tommorow on my B8200 by a lighting bolt now.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Well one thing is for sure, what makes this Country so great is each and every one of us has the freedom to believe in whatever power of higher being they so choose. But for me personally I think its time to tear down a bunch of barriers and stop forcing one God down every bodies throat.

This day in age we have to many people here from other countries both legal and illegally, and they have different beliefs in a God or higher power and faiths. For the Jewish crowd God has not been born yet, for a large majority God has died and plenty are expecting him to come back. Some sacrifice a cow while others crash a plant into a building to get 72 virgins.

Times are changing and this isn't the 1950's anymore with Wally, Ward, June and the Beave....

According to the common Bible, everything we do is a sin, shaving your face is a sin, going to the bathroom is a sin, and yet selling your daughter into prostitution is perfectly legal... READ IT

 

[85Hokie]

For me this sums it up pretty well I think.

Man is born without any preconceived notion of RELIGION or RACISM, both are taught traits. Both are set in place by nothing else but the teaching of the parents and surroundings. Faith on the other hand is something that I believe someone can have without man's influence! Faith is a spiritual connection, religion is a man made. Despite that fact that religion is about man's quest to do the right thing, is seems that almost every war or problem can be traced back to a religious root. If the word of GOD has been written down, man has made a mockery of that word to benefit his/her own needs throughout time!

 

[benben]

@ Ismurphy&Co
hmm first I dont like to coment on this 1,but like my grandfather told me ' he have lost 12 brothers and sisters and Parents in the gas chamber from the SS... he have put down his religion so my father and the result I dont believe at all.hey and I'm stil alieve.when I read Romans ect.and the prayers at the sportchows in the tv or god bless you all.I'm turning my brain what is this.brainwashing from the politic.look only to the Irac's ect.what is this?all religios and pleas say nothing or you are on the deadlist from those fanatics.Like Hodge and others everytime somthing to say... look at the deadrow peoples " kilers childkilers ect. "pray befor the injection.what a shit...
better I stop now

Benben

 

[Steamguy]

I go outside every night to read and do my devotions, and to thank and honor God for this place he has given me. In with my readings was something that is perfectly on-point with this. I'll drop in the quote ver batim.

Your life is like a mist. You can see it for a short time, but then it goes away.
JAMES 4:14

You, as all God’s children, live one final breath from your own funeral. Which, from God’s perspective, is nothing to grieve. He responds to these grave facts with this great news:

The day you die is better than the day you are born (Eccles. 7:1 NLT).

Now there is a twist. Heaven enjoys a maternity-ward reaction to funerals. Angels watch body burials the same way grandparents monitor delivery-room doors. “He’ll be coming through any minute!” They can’t wait to see the new arrival. While we’re driving hearses and wearing black, they’re hanging pink and blue streamers and passing out cigars.

We don’t grieve when babies enter the world. The hosts of heaven don’t weep when we leave it.

From Come Thirsty, Lucado, Max (2006-03-07).
Thomas Nelson, publishers.