BX2200 Transmission Issues . . . HELP I've fallen and I cant get up!

Henro

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Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
5,168
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North of Pittsburgh PA
xrocketengineer Yes it could be and I will definitely take note when re-filling the front assembly!! . . . . . . but realistically I believe it was my own lack of maintenance and inspections that's brought me this problem. I mean 10+ yrs of not even checking the fluid level?? My bad and now $$$ + time.
I've been studying the shop/service manual and it'll be a challenge disassembling the entire front axle and differential, changing out all the seals, then putting all back together and realigning everything. I have the tools and the space. Do I wanna do it. NO! but the snow is coming and I figure I got a few weeks to get it together! Literally!
Write anytime : )
Thanks Billy
I also have been guilty of not checking the front axle oil level as often as I check engine oil, but probably should. I did check both of my tractors this summer though, and neither of the axles were low. After your experience I will check them more often.

Thanks for reporting your unfortunate experience, and please do update the thread (or maybe starting a new one would be better) describing what is involved in the repair procedure.
 

Toyboy

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BX2230D - RCK60-22BX - BX5450
May 18, 2010
616
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Hayward Wi
I'll bet everyone on this thread checks the front axle lube now.....
 
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BillyBX

New member

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BX2200
Nov 27, 2020
19
4
3
Mt. Airy Maryland
UPDATE: I've removed the entire front end (axle housing, hubs etc.) from the tractor.
Got underneath the tractor and turned the driveshaft going to the transmission in the rear and NO problem. Rotates easily both ways!!
I put the entire front end assembly on the bench and examined the outside for leaks, broken parts etc.
None found!
Looked at and removed the oil seal on the pinion shaft . . . . METAL SHAVINGS EVERYWHERE INSIDE!
Tried rotating the pinion spline by twisting . . . and rotated about a 1/4 turn and that was it. It is basically frozen/seized. Total disaster! I removed the snap ring holding the pinion assembly and tried removing the pinion assembly, no deal. Won't budge at all.
I'm going to have to tear down the entire front differential and replace all the seals and bearings. I will first disassemble all the parts and then flush the axle tubes and housing with varsol or kerosene as I believe what little oil might have been present last has contaminated everything.
anybody here with experience like
 

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armylifer

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Man, that is some real bad poo poo. I hope that you can get it working again without too much pain.
 

Fordtech86

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L3200
Aug 7, 2018
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Guessing you will find broken teeth on ring gear and/or pinion as well since you say you got 1/4 turn out of it.
 

whitetiger

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Kubota tech..BX2370, RCK60, B7100HST, RTV900 w plow, Ford 1100 FWA
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UPDATE: I've removed the entire front end (axle housing, hubs etc.) from the tractor.
Got underneath the tractor and turned the driveshaft going to the transmission in the rear and NO problem. Rotates easily both ways!!
I put the entire front end assembly on the bench and examined the outside for leaks, broken parts etc.
None found!
Looked at and removed the oil seal on the pinion shaft . . . . METAL SHAVINGS EVERYWHERE INSIDE!
Tried rotating the pinion spline by twisting . . . and rotated about a 1/4 turn and that was it. It is basically frozen/seized. Total disaster! I removed the snap ring holding the pinion assembly and tried removing the pinion assembly, no deal. Won't budge at all.
I'm going to have to tear down the entire front differential and replace all the seals and bearings. I will first disassemble all the parts and then flush the axle tubes and housing with varsol or kerosene as I believe what little oil might have been present last has contaminated everything.
anybody here with experience like
I have rebuilt several like that on BX and L series. Wash everything really well to remove metal debris.
 

BillyBX

New member

Equipment
BX2200
Nov 27, 2020
19
4
3
Mt. Airy Maryland
Update: Hello to all viewing this thread and thanks for your empathy.
Yes this totally sucks, but It's my own fault for not checking the gear oil level regularly. After reviewing my records it looks like I drained and changed the front differential fluid about 11 yrs ago. Since then I can't remember even checking the level !! I've been treating it like a car differential by not checking it or even concerned about it for years. So my negligence is going to cost me! $$

Recap: When I tried rotating the pinion shaft it only moved less then a 1/8 turn either way. I can't determine if a tooth is broken on the ring or pinion gear. All I know is it feels like its grinding and taking a lot of effort on my part to move it the little bit it does.
When I rotate the hubs on the right / left ends they rotate freely with no effort so maybe they're not contaminated with shavings yet. Either way I'm going to have to open up the entire front end.
Earlier on this thread there was a member who thought it might be the pinion bearing. I believe he might be onto something because when I removed the pinion oil seal, metal shavings were between the oil seal and the bearings. Just a thought . . . .
Oh well for those who interested I will post here regularly with rebuild updates.
BTW, go out and check the front differential fluids on your equipment today or when you use it next!!
It might save you some $$$ . . . . . . . . . .
 

xrocketengineer

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BX1880, FEL, Grapple, 36 in. Forks, 48in. MMM, Quick Spade, Ripper
Nov 14, 2020
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Merritt Island, Florida
Update: Hello to all viewing this thread and thanks for your empathy.
Yes this totally sucks, but It's my own fault for not checking the gear oil level regularly. After reviewing my records it looks like I drained and changed the front differential fluid about 11 yrs ago. Since then I can't remember even checking the level !! I've been treating it like a car differential by not checking it or even concerned about it for years. So my negligence is going to cost me! $$

Recap: When I tried rotating the pinion shaft it only moved less then a 1/8 turn either way. I can't determine if a tooth is broken on the ring or pinion gear. All I know is it feels like its grinding and taking a lot of effort on my part to move it the little bit it does.
When I rotate the hubs on the right / left ends they rotate freely with no effort so maybe they're not contaminated with shavings yet. Either way I'm going to have to open up the entire front end.
Earlier on this thread there was a member who thought it might be the pinion bearing. I believe he might be onto something because when I removed the pinion oil seal, metal shavings were between the oil seal and the bearings. Just a thought . . . .
Oh well for those who interested I will post here regularly with rebuild updates.
BTW, go out and check the front differential fluids on your equipment today or when you use it next!!
It might save you some $$$ . . . . . . . . . .
I am hoping for you that it is just a bearing roller that split and not the differential, like what happened to my classic mini Cooper.
IMG_0694.JPG
 

BillyBX

New member

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BX2200
Nov 27, 2020
19
4
3
Mt. Airy Maryland
Hmmm that pic looks like something blew apart inside the differential. I've seen something similar when people rev up the engine and then do a "Neutral Drop" another words revving the engine and then throwing the transmission into Drive or Low ! If the U Joint holds and the tire has good traction . . . . . well the next weakest link is the differential gears! Years ago a friend was doing "Neutral Drops" and suddenly there was a loud bang and the car started drifting backwards . . . . even though it was still in drive! LOL LOL. When we looked underneath the car the inspection cover on the differential had outward dents in it . . . like a grenade had gone off inside it!!! Funny as all hell. When he / we took off the inspection cover multiple pieces of gear fell out in many sizes! He trashed the rear and went to a local salvage yard and picked up a new one. Lesson learned! LOL
So I'm sure this is not the case with the "Mini Cooper" but is there an explanation as to why it broke apart???

Billy
 

xrocketengineer

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Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX1880, FEL, Grapple, 36 in. Forks, 48in. MMM, Quick Spade, Ripper
Nov 14, 2020
689
569
93
Merritt Island, Florida
Hmmm that pic looks like something blew apart inside the differential. I've seen something similar when people rev up the engine and then do a "Neutral Drop" another words revving the engine and then throwing the transmission into Drive or Low ! If the U Joint holds and the tire has good traction . . . . . well the next weakest link is the differential gears! Years ago a friend was doing "Neutral Drops" and suddenly there was a loud bang and the car started drifting backwards . . . . even though it was still in drive! LOL LOL. When we looked underneath the car the inspection cover on the differential had outward dents in it . . . like a grenade had gone off inside it!!! Funny as all hell. When he / we took off the inspection cover multiple pieces of gear fell out in many sizes! He trashed the rear and went to a local salvage yard and picked up a new one. Lesson learned! LOL
So I'm sure this is not the case with the "Mini Cooper" but is there an explanation as to why it broke apart???

Billy
Since you asked, it is hard to explain. If you look at the picture, you will see that the spider gear pin ends are worn out to about half of its original diameter when the pin failed with a lot of clunking and loss of power .
But there are some contributing factors. From what I have learned during my years in theminiforum.co.uk, the oil type is probably the most important. Since the classic mini shares the engine oil with the "gear box" and differential, the oil type has to be a compromise that can do all three lubricating functions. Since the engine has no roller tappets, its adviced to use an oil with high content of zinc to reduce wear. Most oils do not have it any more because that affects the catalytic converter life. The transmissions and differentials need a viscous oil (engine oils tend to get thinner and thinner with the newer vehicles) to lubricate and handle the pressure between the parts in contact like gear teeth but at the same time be thin enough to lubricate bearings and bushings at high speed and provide cooling.
I have no idea what the previous owner had used but the engine and transmission inside looked fairly clean. I used Mobil 1 once. There is a story going around about somebody racing classic minis here in the US had started using Mobil 1 and then he started blowing differentials left and right.
There is another story that says that the later models of the mini built had the differential pin made out of chocolate.
A newly refurbished transmission (gear box) with a hardened differential pin from guess-works.com (the owner is John Guess) and Valvoline VR racing non synthetic 20W50 oil appears to have been the solution.
This is what the beast looks like after putting it together:
IMG_0829.JPG
IMG_0830.JPG
 
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BillyBX

New member

Equipment
BX2200
Nov 27, 2020
19
4
3
Mt. Airy Maryland
Update:
With much perseverance I've managed to disassemble the entire front differential / axles / hubs / etc. Apparently there was still a good amount of gear oil present as I found out when taking everything apart.
Please take note . . . . the issue is the gear fluid had gotten low enough that it wasn't getting around the highest areas that need lube which is the pinion drive assembly. If you look at where the differential sits in the axle case, you can see its the highest point where gear oil has go to reach. If you're too low on fluid then the pinion bearings don't get lubed and burn up. Literally!
The outer hubs and gear drives are the lowest lube points. They had plenty of oil and are in fine shape.
All the gears are intact with no chips or scarring.
So even though the differential and assembly look and act fine, I'm going to flush the entire unit including the hub assemblies with parts cleaner to make sure no metal shaving are left anywhere.

The Fix:
* Flush the entire assembly with parts cleaner
* Replace both (2) pinion bearings.
* Replace the 2 differential bearings and re-shim when assembling.
* Replace all oil seals no matter what condition.
* Replace large "O" rings on the hub assemblies.
* Replace 2 bushings and 2 oil seals on the axle pivot
* Fill front axle case with SAE80, 90 gear oil

Did I miss anything???

Best
Billy
 
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Henro

Well-known member

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B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
5,168
2,374
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
I'm confused! I remember posting that comment about a thread hijack, but it was after someone with one post seemed to be spamming the thread if I remember correctly.

Not sure why that comment appeared in my later post, but it was unintended. I apologize...

Edit: Maybe the thread hijack comment never posted and was just sitting there waiting and I did not notice? Really puzzled, but not an intended comment in the recent post.
 

xrocketengineer

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Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX1880, FEL, Grapple, 36 in. Forks, 48in. MMM, Quick Spade, Ripper
Nov 14, 2020
689
569
93
Merritt Island, Florida
Update:
With much perseverance I've managed to disassemble the entire front differential / axles / hubs / etc. Apparently there was still a good amount of gear oil present as I found out when taking everything apart.
Please take note . . . . the issue is the gear fluid had gotten low enough that it wasn't getting around the highest areas that need lube which is the pinion drive assembly. If you look at where the differential sits in the axle case, you can see its the highest point where gear oil has go to reach. If you're too low on fluid then the pinion bearings don't get lubed and burn up. Literally!
The outer hubs and gear drives are the lowest lube points. They had plenty of oil and are in fine shape.
All the gears are intact with no chips or scarring.
So even though the differential and assembly look and act fine, I'm going to flush the entire unit including the hub assemblies with parts cleaner to make sure no metal shaving are left anywhere.

The Fix:
* Flush the entire assembly with parts cleaner
* Replace both (2) pinion bearings.
* Replace the 2 differential bearings and re-shim when assembling.
* Replace all oil seals no matter what condition.
* Replace large "O" rings on the hub assemblies.
* Replace 2 bushings and 2 oil seals on the axle pivot
* Fill front axle case with SAE80, 90 gear oil

Did I miss anything???

Best
Billy
When refilling the axle with oil make sure to start through the two breather plugs or check that the oil gets there before you plug them up and top off afterwards, if required, through the dipstick hole. That is what I ended up doing with mine.
 
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BillyBX

New member

Equipment
BX2200
Nov 27, 2020
19
4
3
Mt. Airy Maryland
Yes when refilling the front axle assembly I will make sure the breather plugs will be open. I will fill to the prescribed line on the dipstick then rotate the hubs by hand (without the wheels) then let it sit for an hour as to make sure the oil fills in all the nooks and cranny's. Then I will check again and add whatever amount necessary to show full on the dipstick.
Next step will be to take the tractor for a little cautious drive around the yard for about 10 minutes . . . . then recheck fluid level and add if needed.
All these years I've been checking the transmission level but never the front differential.
From now on it will be on the monthly "check list"
I feel like I'm getting off reasonably lucky because I stopped the tractor immediately when I detected "binding". Looks like the only toasted parts were the 2 pinion bearings but regardless I'm replacing all the bearings, oil seals and shims. Don't wanna do this again . . . . .
Stay tuned as I reassemble this week!

Best Billy
 
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xrocketengineer

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BX1880, FEL, Grapple, 36 in. Forks, 48in. MMM, Quick Spade, Ripper
Nov 14, 2020
689
569
93
Merritt Island, Florida
Dumb question: Do you need to replace seals on the on the axle center pivot bolt? I was watching some You Tube video of somebody that was replacing all the seals on the axle and there were some up there. I did not think that the pivot bolt would be in the oil.
 

DustyRusty

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Equipment
2020 BX23S, BX2822 Snowblower, Curtis Deluxe Cab,
Nov 8, 2015
5,190
3,847
113
North East CT
Last summer I topped off my front axle, and when the sun was beating down on the machine, I noticed a drip. Apparently, the oil was expanding and pushing out as a result. When I removed the dip stick I got a gush of oil. I use the Kubota Super UDT oil in my hydraulics and the front axle. Personally, I believe that the thinner oil is better, based on the fact that is what the tractor was delivered with from the assembly plant.