Biocides/algaecides--to use or not to use?

[sheepfarmer]

I puzzled for a long time about buying yet another thing for my tractor, and ran into a couple of questions I didn't find very good answers, so I'd be interested in other people's experiences and expertise.

The biocides are very toxic, not the sort of thing you want to either handle or have around the house unnecessarily.

1. When is it necessary? The things associated with algae and bacterial slime growth in the diesel fuel are biodiesel and water. How much does it take? Do you have to "catch" a starter algae contaminant first?

2. What kind of biocide should one use? Do any of them damage tractor parts?

It turns out that all the different companies have their own very different chemicals that they sell to kill the algae. Some of them are downright scary, e.g. 50% glutaraldehyde, something I have used in the lab and wouldn't handle without gloves and a fumehood. It is concentrated fixative or embalming fluid. It would crosslink and stiffen molecules in things like rubber and maybe plastic, so killing the algae might mess with other parts in the fuel delivery system. I asked Kubota if there were any biocides they recommended either for or against, but learned only that fuel filter blockage was VERY common, and that they didn't know if any of the biocides caused harm, there were too many kinds and they were chemically too different.

So we are on our own to figure out if any biocides damage fuel pumps or lines, especially the newer ones with the high pressure common rail systems.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Re: Biocides/algaecides

One of the immediate problems of using the biocides is safely measuring and handling them. Some of them are REALLY toxic. We get used to the warning labels in teeny tiny print, and no one would willingly take a bath in diesel, but many of the biocides are neurotoxins that are particularly nasty. To find out what is in them without going to the store and reading what is on the bottle, you can search online for the Materials Safety data sheet for the ones you are interested in, eg the Powerservice Biokleen or whatever.

So figuring out how to get it in your tractor and not on you is not a small problem.

One of the issues is how to measure small quantities for some brands, and especially if you are using more than one additive. See link for this discussion: http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22496.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Re: Biocides/algaecides

I worked 37 years in power plants, about 25 - 30 years ago we started having problems with bugs growing in the lubricating oil. This was about the same time the EPA decided the cooling water pressure had to be lower than the oil pressure. Condensation in the lube oil prior to lowering the cooling water pressure rarely caused a problem with biological growth in the oil. It usually takes oil, water, and some dirt to get the growth started. I was not directly involved in selecting the biocide we used so I don't know what was specified to prevent damage to the lube oil systems. However I am sure it was considered as these were large turbine generator lube oil systems. When ever possible we avoided using a biocide and killed the biological growth by raising the oil temperature above 180 degrees (This is a guess on the temperature, I have been retired 8 years). We probably don't want to fool around with heating diesel to 180 degrees. The biggest problem after killing the growth is filtering out the slime that is left. It may be best to dispose of the fuel if the quanity is small or have several new filters available and replace as needed.

 

[TripleR]

Re: Biocides/algaecides

I've never had the need for biocides, we run eight diesel tractors. My father in law owned a bulk fuel plant for agriculture and gas stations, commercial trucking and he didn't use any in his fleet of trucks. I know it exists, we've just never had an issue with it.

 

[wv bc owner]

I fought the issue with algae all most all summer myself. It's not fun by no means fuel filters might last anywhere from 30 min to an hour then stopped up. Drained tank treated,new filter strained fuel with a paint filter run fine since. I put a quarter ounce to 5 gal every time I refuel.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

 

[coachgeo]

a lot of it has to do with where you live. Is there is often moisture in the air (muggy climate) then you better use it cause condensation can build on inner wall of tank and drip water into fuel..... which is first necessary ingredient for stuff to grow.

In such environments it is best to keep tanks topped up at all times so less moist air gets into the tank(s)

 

[sheepfarmer]

Well I wondered about regional differences, mid Michigan is pretty humid in the summer, but Missouri where triple R is from strikes me as humid too. I asked a bunch of people if they were seeing slime clogged fuel filters this summer, the two dealerships that service my truck, and the Kubota tech, and even total strangers filling up their diesel rigs at the service station. All said no. My Kubota dealer had said to avoid the biodiesel like the plague, since that is another known cause, and I wondered how you could tell how much was being slipped in at the station. Turns out that in Michigan if it is above a certain amount they have to say so on the pump. None of the stations where I have filled up have had a sticker to say there was extra biodiesel.

Anyone in Michigan have different experience? Other states?

 

[Ike]

I had alage in my skidsteer a few years ago. I bought fuel filters by the case and even so I treated the fuel it took almost a year to get rid of it. I ended up putting a cheap filter in line before the main filters and when it would plug up you could pull the slime out of it. The way I finally got rid of it ws I doubled the dosage of treatment. I was told at the co o that bio diesel was prone to getting this in hot weather. I was also told that the treatment eats the alage up so no residue is left in the tank. I now add treatment in my fuel in the spring thru summer months as it is cheaper that the screw on filter. When I bought my Kubota they said to run the power service to the fuel which I was already doing anyway. I am in north central mich

 

[CaveCreekRay]

I have read about service problems dealing with algae in diesel affecting cars. One lady had a late 80's diesel Mercedes and her repair guy just kept flushing out the system without treating the cause. Her car would run fine for a week or two and then quit due to fuel starvation. She switched mechanics and they flushed everything and then treated the car and let it sit for a couple days. Then, they re-flushed it and treated her fuel again and she had no more problems. Once contaminated, a fuel system has to be treated.

I treat my stored fuel cans every other tank load or so with a low dose of Bio-Kleen to keep the tanks free. (WallyMart carries it.) Some tanks sit empty for months after use. I also use Standyne Lubricity and Performance, neither of which have any bio-cide characteristics. I believe Stanadyne now makes a product for that purpose.

I too am concerned about the handling issues but take all my tanks outside when empty and add the preventative products to the empty container. When I add the fuel, it mixes well enough and keeps the storage tank clear -and hopefully the tractor fuel system clear. So far, other than wearing gloves, I have hardly noticed any smell from the Bio-Kleen.

I liken it to the Flu vaccine. After learning about the system contamination issues, I'd rather inoculate my entire diesel storage and equipment with a twice annual dose just to stay safe. Here in AZ, my barn gets up to the high 80's where my fuel is stored but, it stays sealed and dry. Great temps for growing cultures but, without moisture, I think I am pretty safe. A friend of mine here has run his Kubota for 25 years with no additives. (He was the guy who just had his fuel pump go low pressure on him after all these years... He now uses Stanadyne.)

Ray

 

[Ike]

I think when they change the diesel fuel a few years ago that this caused some of the problems. I have had diesels for over 40 years and never added anything to the fuel. But in the last 10 years you have to add something for water and alage. I bought a 30 gal marine tank that is plastic and it is mounted to a 2 wheel cart for my fuel this year. I added a 12 V pump on it and I will add a filter today then try it out. Being plastic I should not get the moisture problems you get with steel. When I get fuel in 5 gal cans the first thing I put in is the additive so when I add fuel it mixes

 

[coachgeo]

.... I asked a bunch of people if they were seeing slime clogged fuel filters this summer, the two dealerships that service my truck, and the Kubota tech, and even total strangers filling up their diesel rigs at the service station. All said no. ....

Rigs that get a lot of use rarely have issues. Water pulled out by filter thus not in it long enough to create issues. Thusly asking around about issues where there is "service" trucks, big rigs, even non commercial diesel drivers; that owners are smart enough to fill mostly at a known active fueling station,.... will always net the answer "nahhhh.... no problems here". Helps to that at active diesel stations, the diesel storage tanks get cycled thru often so it too has not got time to develop problems. Highest percent of issues comes from getting fuel at a station with low to moderate sells of diesel, blends, or 100% Bio-D cause these places end up with these fuels sitting longer in storage.

Don't forget that with Bio-D blends and 100%, in first year or so of use; even at standard low % mix w/diesel, does clean a lot of stuff out of the fuel system which ends up clogging filters thusly giving the blend a bad name. Dirtier the fuel system the longer one has to do often filter changes. That will eventually taper out. In reality it's doing the rig a favor and giving the system a good clean. Just stick with it; your rig will thank you.

 

[redfernclan]

My dealer said with the crappy fuel we get now a days. both gas and diesel, treat it all. I just use the stabul made for diesel and put it in my fuel can before filling it up. But I don't put alot of hours on my rig either.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Coach I don't disagree with the sampling problem in my "survey" that's why I brought it up for discussion. The Kubota dealership I asked deals with a lot of hobby farmers who probably don't use their tractors much, but the folks driving pickups do. I couldn't decide if it was using a lot of fuel or getting it from a station that sells a lot of diesel, or the fact that there was relatively little biodiesel in the local blends or all of the above that was protective. There are quite a few threads discussing fuel sources and algae contamination, and whether or not off road diesel was more likely to be associated with algae growth.

In the end I decided that since I only use 3 gal every other week that I would treat my fuel. That and being OCD.

However I have not been able to find out if any of the additives were likely to damage components in the fuel lines or the injectors, especially the newer systems. Any of the folks out there that see lots of tractors or read other forums run into any bad experiences with biocide additives?

 

[coachgeo]

.... I have not been able to find out if any of the additives were likely to damage components in the fuel lines or the injectors, especially the newer systems. Any of the folks out there that see lots of tractors or read other forums run into any bad experiences with biocide additives?

These additives are mostly biological "cides" (example- herbicide, insecticide, Biocide etc.) then they are oil (natural or petroleum) or alcohol/methanol based. As you know these oil or alcohol based ones do degrade some kinds of plastics and/or rubber and the manufactures (kubota, Case, JD....) etc. avoid those (rubber seals etc. ) The cides though..... pretty sure they only degrade biologicals

So as to component degradation from these... IMHO that is not an issue.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

SF,

"O-fish-ully" my dealer tells me that Kubota does not recommend any fuel additives. But, Dealer-to-user, he says occasional use of the better additives won't hurt a thing. (Wink-Wink!) He likes Stanadyne and has not seen any problems with Bio-Kleen though they have seen machines that have sat for months (years?) out doors, unused, come in with algae in the fuel.

I am like you. Whatever Mr. K wants, Mr. K gets. I try my darndest to run my fuel through fairly quickly but also want to keep a small supply should the "poo hit the rotating wind device." I just discovered that StaBil makes a diesel fuel stabilizer, which I now add to keep my fuel fresh. What the collective/collateral effects of stabilizer/lubricity formula/ and occasional biocide are is clearly unknown but, Mr. K starts right up and runs great thus far. Like you, I sometimes wonder if I am killing him with kindness but all the products I choose are fairly popular with the diesel crowd.

I hope Mr. K knows I lose sleep over what care he gets!



Ray

 

[Ike]

I have been doing a lot of reading since this post was started and if you was to add everything that the power service company wants you to add it would cost more than the fuel. One thing I was looking for is if you have something that has been used in bad fuel will this alage still be present in say 4 or 5 years if it is removed from the fuel and left sitting.

 

[CaveCreekRay]

I believe it will. That algae stays alive and then blooms once in the proper medium. You would think heat would kill it...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Soltron and Stanadyne are my two go to products.
Zerro problems once I started using them.

Soltron is an enzyme biocide / algaecide.

 

[ShaunRH]

According to a paper I just read, no ocean going algae's of the northern oceans tolerated heat beyond 86°. I haven't found anything on any other ocean style algae's but on the whole, I don't think many would live past 120°.
Problem is the lowest end flashpoint of #2 Diesel is 150°.
You could probably design a fuel heater that got it hot enough to kill off any algae and put into solution any water. The bonus would be that heated fuel would start a cold tractor better and would likely be more efficient in burning. Bad news would be that some units rely on the diesel to cool things down.

I like the idea of heat being used to kill off algae and filtering out the dead little bodies, but it would have to be a pretty precise device to pull it off.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks NIW, I'll check out the Soltron. Offhand an enzymatic method sounds less engine hostile than the one I have which, if I haven't mixed them up, acts by putting any water present into solution (or maybe tiny droplets) in the diesel so it will get burned up and not be available for growth by the algae and bacteria. I just wonder if the pumps are going to mind water even in that form.

Shaun, I like the way you think! Cook them! The idea I had was to replace the indicator float in the water separator with one impregnated with a biocidal compound like silver. Seems to me that the two places water collects the most are the fuel tank walls and the water separator. And therefore those places could have a culture of algae and bacteria growing on them that would break off in chunks and clog fuel filters.

Kubota recommends cleaning the water separator with kerosene when draining it, and it would make sense to clean all the parts of it really well. It would be doubly important to clean the separator if you have had an outbreak of algae because even if the biocide kills them, the cell walls will still clog the filters when they wash through.