Is dyed diesel more expensive than clear in Ontario?

[torch]

The cost of clear diesel at the pump around here is 96.6¢ per liter. No additional taxes.

My home heating fuel supplier told me they sell dyed diesel for 89.4¢ per litre. About 7 cents per litre cheaper, right?

So I went there and filled 2 jerry cans with dyed diesel at their pump, which does not display the price -- just the volume. After filling the cans, they made up an invoice in the office, which I paid.

Driving home, it finally dawned on me that they charged me over $42 for 40 litres of fuel. Looking at the receipt, yes, the fuel cost was 89.4¢/liter, but then they added a federal excise tax of $1.60 and HST of $4.86. So in effect, I paid about $1.055 per litre -- about 9¢ MORE than the price of clear diesel!

WTF? Ok, it's only $2.50 cents difference on a couple of jerry cans, but it's <$100 difference when filling the home heating oil tank, even after considering the lack of federal excise tax on heating fuels. I'd be better off taking a couple of 45 gallon drums to the truck stop once a month!

Is this typical? Could this be a #1 vs #2 diesel thing or is the supplier just playing with the mice?

 

[85Hokie]

The cost of clear diesel at the pump around here is 96.6¢ per liter. No additional taxes.

My home heating fuel supplier told me they sell dyed diesel for 89.4¢ per litre. About 7 cents per litre cheaper, right?

So I went there and filled 2 jerry cans with dyed diesel at their pump, which does not display the price -- just the volume. After filling the cans, they made up an invoice in the office, which I paid.

Driving home, it finally dawned on me that they charged me over $42 for 40 litres of fuel. Looking at the receipt, yes, the fuel cost was 89.4¢/liter, but then they added a federal excise tax of $1.60 and HST of $4.86. So in effect, I paid about $1.055 per litre -- about 9¢ MORE than the price of clear diesel!

WTF? Ok, it's only $2.50 cents difference on a couple of jerry cans, but it's <$100 difference when filling the home heating oil tank, even after considering the lack of federal excise tax on heating fuels. I'd be better off taking a couple of 45 gallon drums to the truck stop once a month!

Is this typical? Could this be a #1 vs #2 diesel thing or is the supplier just playing with the mice?

In the states - the dyed is the exact same product as on-road........difference, the non dyed is taxed to death - and the dyed is for machines that do not run up and down the roadways. Now you diesel vs your home heating oil, IS a slightly different blend - old days, many a person would place HHO in their diesels.....today's new machines would not like that very much!

I think I would go back and see the vendor and ask a few questions about the price.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sounds like he charged you a road tax on it, which he shouldn't have.
Here in the states collecting tax when it's not supposed to be collected is a bigger crime than not paying it.
But different provinces up there have different and weird taxes!

Make your life easier and start filling your tractor strait from the HHO tank at your house.

 

[torch]

Make your life easier and start filling your tractor strait from the HHO tank at your house.

I was thinking of that. That's when I realized the pump price of fully taxed road diesel is cheaper than the HHO.

 

[bucktail]

Have you verified that your HHO is getting the same tax as the 2 jerry cans? I'm assuming you get that delivered.

 

[torch]

Have you verified that your HHO is getting the same tax as the 2 jerry cans? I'm assuming you get that delivered.

HHO is not subject to the 4¢/L federal excise tax, so it's a bit cheaper than the dyed diesel vehicle fuel. Last December they dinged me 87.8¢/L. That may be just normal fluctuation. After adding the sales tax, it was 99.2¢/L.

To summarize the tax structure here:

Clear diesel subject to 14¢ provincial excise tax, + 4¢ federal excise tax, + HST sales tax (charged on the excise taxes and the fuel price!)

Working it backwards to strip out the taxes on the clear diesel (96.6¢/L at the pump), the price of the actual fuel is 67.5¢/L. I'll use that as the base line for the other examples, below:

Dyed diesel subject to 4¢ federal excise tax, + HST sales tax (again, tax on the tax...)

So I would expect the final price of dyed diesel to be about 80.8¢/L, not $1.055.

HHO is subject to HST sales tax only.

If the real cost of HHO is similar to clear diesel, adding HST to that brings it to 76.3¢/L.

Given what they actually charged me for the HHO, that's an extra $252 per tank full for the convenience of delivery.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Best to ask a local farmer how he deals with the tax. Perhaps he would "trade" for a drum of fuel. Dont think they can actually sell fuel.

 

[scdeerslayer]

Apparently in some areas you have to show some special paperwork to get the tax-free stuff. I wonder if they charged you tax (if that's what they did) because you didn't have the proper paperwork? Still it seems like a big no-no to tax dyed diesel. Might be pocketing the extra. I think that's why they dye it, people were charging tax but not paying it to the government. I seem to remember seeing something on TV about a tanker driver doing that.

I don't get off-road diesel for the new tractor because the off-road pumps don't specify ULSD, but when I buy it for the older tractors there doesn't seem to be much difference in price. I haven't done the math but I suspect if I add the road tax to the off-road price it will be more than regular diesel. Makes sense because I'm sure they sell 5-10 times more regular diesel than off-road at that location.

 

[D2Cat]

If the tax is added to the off road price of diesel, it equals to the exact same price as on road diesel.

Off road is simply died with color and no taxes charged.

 

[85Hokie]

If the tax is added to the off road price of diesel, it equals to the exact same price as on road diesel.

Off road is simply died with color and no taxes charged.

Each state is different in the taxes they collect on a gallon of fuel, and there can be a difference between gas and diesel. Here in Virginia - we pay a typical 40 cents on each gallon (even though on the pump it shows more tax) of gas for on-road fuel. Other states have a much higher tax!

I found this by accident = great info on each state:

http://www.virginiagasprices.com/USA_Tax_Map.aspx

 

[D2Cat]

85Hokie, I'm not comparing taxes on gas to taxes on diesel.

Only saying whatever the price of on-road (taxed) diesel is....the only difference between on-road diesel and off-road diesel is, off road has no taxes (to help pay for road construction).

 

[kenmac]

Apparently in some areas you have to show some special paperwork to get the tax-free stuff. I wonder if they charged you tax (if that's what they did) because you didn't have the proper paperwork? Still it seems like a big no-no to tax dyed diesel. Might be pocketing the extra. I think that's why they dye it, people were charging tax but not paying it to the government. I seem to remember seeing something on TV about a tanker driver doing that.

I don't get off-road diesel for the new tractor because the off-road pumps don't specify ULSD, but when I buy it for the older tractors there doesn't seem to be much difference in price. I haven't done the math but I suspect if I add the road tax to the off-road price it will be more than regular diesel. Makes sense because I'm sure they sell 5-10 times more regular diesel than off-road at that location.

I was recently told by a diesel distributor that there is no diesel fuel for sale in USA that is not ULSD.

 

[Dave_eng]

The cost of clear diesel at the pump around here is 96.6¢ per liter. No additional taxes.

My home heating fuel supplier told me they sell dyed diesel for 89.4¢ per litre. About 7 cents per litre cheaper, right?

So I went there and filled 2 jerry cans with dyed diesel at their pump, which does not display the price -- just the volume. After filling the cans, they made up an invoice in the office, which I paid.

Driving home, it finally dawned on me that they charged me over $42 for 40 litres of fuel. Looking at the receipt, yes, the fuel cost was 89.4¢/liter, but then they added a federal excise tax of $1.60 and HST of $4.86. So in effect, I paid about $1.055 per litre -- about 9¢ MORE than the price of clear diesel!

WTF? Ok, it's only $2.50 cents difference on a couple of jerry cans, but it's <$100 difference when filling the home heating oil tank, even after considering the lack of federal excise tax on heating fuels. I'd be better off taking a couple of 45 gallon drums to the truck stop once a month!

Is this typical? Could this be a #1 vs #2 diesel thing or is the supplier just playing with the mice?

Here is my invoice for filling my bulk tank with -40 colored diesel on Feb 17 2017

you pay extra for the -40 but never ever gels.

I live just east of Cornwall Ontario

Dave M7040

 

[85Hokie]

85Hokie, I'm not comparing taxes on gas to taxes on diesel.

Only saying whatever the price of on-road (taxed) diesel is....the only difference between on-road diesel and off-road diesel is, off road has no taxes (to help pay for road construction).

I was just adding more information to the discussion! And I think you are saying the exact same thing as was posted in #2!

 

[Redtoorange]

If you live just East of Cornwall have looked on the reserve? I know that the gas is a lot cheaper in Desoronto, just east of Belleville.


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[torch]

have looked on the reserve?

Interesting point. I believe you are supposed to have a status card to get the tax free gas though. I'm not sure if any pumps on any reserves carry died diesel.

I'm nowhere near Belleville, but I'm only an hour north of Rama. I may have to check things out next time I'm down that way.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Dave I know your problem, they are charging you a Premium for the fuel because it's got a HST / GST surcharge on it... Should have told them it was for a DT... HAHAHA

Yea yea yea I know it's goods and services tax!

 

[Redtoorange]

Interesting point. I believe you are supposed to have a status card to get the tax free gas though. I'm not sure if any pumps on any reserves carry died diesel.



I'm nowhere near Belleville, but I'm only an hour north of Rama. I may have to check things out next time I'm down that way.

Road diesel might come out being cheaper then died and with pay at the pump who even talks to anyone anymore (no slot on the pump for status card if ya know what I'm sayin)


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[Redtoorange]

How did you make out? I had the oil tank filled the other day and was talking to the guy delivering it about 45 gallon barrels of farm diesel. He said there a few people who get their diesel that way and the get a barrel pump then they just have it refilled. I'm thinking of going that route, easier then the 25 litre cans.


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[torch]

I haven't made it down to the Rama to scope things out yet. I did call my home heating oil supplier to ask about pricing and the girl who answers the phone couldn't give me a price. The fellow who determines pricing was "out in the yard". I gather the price depends on how much they figure they can squeeze out of a particular customer. Nobody bothered to call me back.