Who is watching you?

bird dogger

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I find it interesting that most parents I know who home school never attended college but think they are better teachers than someone with a masters degree in education. Just my observations.
I only have a 2 yr technical degree (trade school) in Electrical Technology and spent 42 yrs in the industry. I didn't completely home school but certainly monitored the kids classwork.

Our two sons suffered through two types of learning growing up. The “No child left behind” curriculum at their public school. Then at the same time….the “You’re going to learn how to think and do things the right way” at home. (Dad’s way)

Their text books were fraught with misinformation and mistakes, especially the math books. Complaining to the school board did no good as they had already just spent large sums on these latest greatest text books.

I would help them with their homework but almost never gave them the answers. Instead, I would help/make them think in how to arrive at the correct answer. Their teachers would get mad at me for sending notes back with them that their textbooks were wrong (gave pg. & the example) and they should make a note to correct them. They spent almost a year on “guess and check” math methods with multiple choice answers……at least half of which were incorrect. I must’ve been the only parent that noticed and would comment. I would make the kids show their work and how they arrived at the correct answer……even if it wasn’t one of the multiple choices in the book.

Apparently, the straw that broke the camels back was a simple math word problem: What’s the greatest area that you can enclose with an 80 ft. length of fencing? The math book’s answer was 400 sq. ft. My kid’s answer: 510 sq. ft. The teacher marked his answer wrong, even though he showed her how a circle enclosed with 80 ft. of fencing had an area of 510 ft. sq. Much more than a square with 20 ft. on a side! He was sent home with a real nasty note to me saying I should not be teaching my kids at home!! And she was the teacher that had a picture of an ugly cowboy on her class door with a caption that said, “Homework makes you ugly!”

From then on, the son’s had double duty. They had to do the lessons the wrong way (school) and then when they knew things didn’t add up…..they had to do it the right way (dad’s) and turn in both sets of answers. Wrong to the school…..right answers to dad .

When our son’s were in 8th and 9th grade, their classmates took a poll and I was voted the strictest parent of the whole bunch. They thought I’d be mad when they told me, … but I said I’m honored!!

Fast forward quite a few years: one son is now a Civil Engineer. The other is a relay technician (2 yr degree) for a major power company. I think they now realize that some of the struggles with dad’s “home tutoring” really paid off. In fact, the one with the 2 year degree is now asked to participate in the hiring process of new technicians. When he asked his employer what made him stand out and get hired as a 22 yr. old over hundreds of other applicants with supposedly much more education and experience: They told him they could tell he didn’t lie on his qualifications and actually knew his subject matter. And just as important…….he actually could think on his feet, problem solve, and knew exactly what to ask and where to go for help, if and when needed. He was their model employee.

They've both far surpassed me in their technical knowledge learned in college and afterwards. But they certainly weren’t taught to problem solve and think on their feet in the years spent in public school. Every bit of that came from the one voted the strictest parent. In many ways they’ve now admitted as much. They just haven’t stated it outright. But that’s good enough for me!! :)
 
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ACDII

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I only have a 2 yr technical degree (trade school) in Electrical Technology and spent 42 yrs in the industry. I didn't completely home school but certainly monitored the kids classwork.

Our two sons suffered through two types of learning growing up. The “No child left behind” curriculum at their public school. Then at the same time….the “You’re going to learn how to think and do things the right way” at home. (Dad’s way)

Their text books were fraught with misinformation and mistakes, especially the math books. Complaining to the school board did no good as they had already just spent large sums on these latest greatest text books.

I would help them with their homework but almost never gave them the answers. Instead, I would help/make them think in how to arrive at the correct answer. Their teachers would get mad at me for sending notes back with them that their textbooks were wrong (gave pg. & the example) and they should make a note to correct them. They spent almost a year on “guess and check” math methods with multiple choice answers……at least half of which were incorrect. I must’ve been the only parent that noticed and would comment. I would make the kids show their work and how they arrived at the correct answer……even if it wasn’t one of the multiple choices in the book.

Apparently, the straw that broke the camels back was a simple math word problem: What’s the greatest area that you can enclose with an 80 ft. length of fencing? The math book’s answer was 400 sq. ft. My kid’s answer: 510 sq. ft. The teacher marked his answer wrong, even though he showed her how a circle enclosed with 80 ft. of fencing had an area of 510 ft. sq. Much more than a square with 20 ft. on a side! He was sent home with a real nasty note to me saying I should not be teaching my kids at home!! And she was the teacher that had a picture of an ugly cowboy on her class door with a caption that said, “Homework makes you ugly!”

From then on, the son’s had double duty. They had to do the lessons the wrong way (school) and then when they knew things didn’t add up…..they had to do it the right way (dad’s) and turn in both sets of answers. Wrong to the school…..right answers to dad .

When our son’s were in 8th and 9th grade, their classmates took a poll and I was voted the strictest parent of the whole bunch. They thought I’d be mad when they told me, … but I said I’m honored!!

Fast forward quite a few years: one son is now a Civil Engineer. The other is a relay technician (2 yr degree) for a major power company. I think they now realize that some of the struggles with dad’s “home tutoring” really paid off. In fact, the one with the 2 year degree is now asked to participate in the hiring process of new technicians. When he asked his employer what made him stand out and get hired as a 22 yr. old over hundreds of other applicants with supposedly much more education and experience: They told him they could tell he didn’t lie on his qualifications and actually knew his subject matter. And just as important…….he actually could think on his feet, problem solve, and knew exactly what to ask and where to go for help, if and when needed. He was their model employee.

They've both far surpassed me in their technical knowledge learned in college and afterwards. But they certainly weren’t taught to problem solve and think on their feet in the years spent in public school. Every bit of that came from the one voted the strictest parent. In many ways they’ve now admitted as much. They just haven’t stated it outright. But that’s good enough for me!! :)

I can honestly say, Right up there with you on this. We got several nasty grams because my daughtere was writing Cursive. Yes, we taught her how to write, not the school. We had a PTC, I asked, were not able to understand her writing? Answer, no, it was well done. Then what is the problem? We don't teach Cursive!

My son is a freshy, Daughter a Junior and to this day, NEITHER have been taught how to use a ruler. They know how because I taught them. I taught them Binary, Fractions to Decimal and back. None of which has been taught in school. I understand Binary is an advanced subject related to Computers, but since I use it a lot, thought I would teach them. Binary, the only time Zero counts as one. Both kids knew how to read and write before Kindergarten, proof is still on a wall downstairs! LOL
 
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bird dogger

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I can honestly say, Right up there with you on this. We got several nasty grams because my daughtere was writing Cursive. Yes, we taught her how to write, not the school. We had a PTC, I asked, were not able to understand her writing? Answer, no, it was well done. Then what is the problem? We don't teach Cursive!

My son is a freshy, Daughter a Junior and to this day, NEITHER have been taught how to use a ruler. They know how because I taught them. I taught them Binary, Fractions to Decimal and back. None of which has been taught in school. I understand Binary is an advanced subject related to Computers, but since I use it a lot, thought I would teach them. Binary, the only time Zero counts as one. Both kids knew how to read and write before Kindergarten, proof is still on a wall downstairs! LOL
LOL! Agree whole heartedly! Here's a funny, true story I might have mentioned before: At a PTC meeting with the math teacher when one son was maybe in 6th grade. They had spent almost a whole year on the stupid "guess and check" math system. She was also the teacher sending me the nasty notes about not helping the boys with their lessons. The meeting was kinda tense but she had to admit that our son was doing quite well despite my "helping".

Ready to leave, the wife noticed all the new cabinetry in her classroom and mentioned it. (I was thinking money that should've been spent on proper texts!) The teacher then said yes but have a look at this. It's really disappointing that they couldn't have done better work.

She opened cabinet doors and where outlets were behind them......they had made multiple attempts to get the cut out openings correct. Extra holes were made in all the custom cabinets! Said she couldn't understand it.

I said, "I know exactly what happened. There's a very logical reason for all of the extra holes. (Long pause.) The installers had obviously been taught to use the "guess and check" method of math! Being exact and right the first time just doesn't matter."

The teacher got quite red in the face and you could see her blood pressure rising as we walked out. I think she got my point, though. My wife wasn't happy with me. I laughed all the way home. It was one of the few times i was able to come up quickly with the right answer! :LOL:

David
 
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skeets

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It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself – anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face (to look incredulous when a victory was announced, for example) was itself a punishable offence.
– George Orwell
 
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D2Cat

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I was taught it's ok to talk to yourself. It's ok to answer yourself. It's only when you talk to yourself, answer, then say huh that you have a problem!

1637591516019.png
 
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aaluck

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I was taught it's ok to talk to yourself. It's ok to answer yourself. It's only when you talk to yourself, answer, then say huh that you have a problem!
My kids gave me this for my birthday one year....
 

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jyoutz

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Just because someone has a piece of special paper, does not make such person smart, just educated. Sure, I could study the questions on a Cisco CCNP exam and pass it 100%, but in the real world, that don't mean jack if I don't know how to set up a proper network. Yes, I have had hires with Professional Certifications to fill Level III positions who didn't even know how to set up a basic static route. Even a Level I tech should know what a basic static route entails.

Those same teachers are also told to do things a specific cookie cutter way, and not to deviate, they also do not know individual children or how to change things up to suit their needs like a parent does. Only those with decades of teaching know this, and those are becoming rare today. Many teachers I had were old and well schooled in teaching to each child's level, but not today. The teachers in my kids schools are 30 somethings, none older than 45, many are not parents themselves.

Businesses today are changing up how they hire, they are hiring on experience regardless if there is a degree involved. Many have found that positions they normally hire a Graduate for have turned into stepping stones, and are constantly having to refill positions, and have switched to hiring experienced non graduate people to fill them. My wife has filled such a role, the two previous hires for it were not there very long and couldn't do a quarter what my wife does.

I myself never graduated High School, I served my 4 years and was out, of course back then they didn't give automatic passes, fail a class and you don't pass. I failed Phys Ed, hated it. Still hate it to this very day. I still make a 6 figure salary even though I have no special papers, I have skills that my employer needs and I fill it well. This is now starting to become the norm over requiring degrees.
I’m not questioning your career success. Many people are successful without college degrees, and many with degrees are not successful. Still, most of the parents I met who home school are not well educated and don’t become well informed on current and historical events. And it often shows in their “students.” Many of these students who go on to college are socially awkward because they weren’t exposed to people with different perspectives growing up.
 

NHSleddog

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I’m not questioning your career success. Many people are successful without college degrees, and many with degrees are not successful. Still, most of the parents I met who home school are not well educated and don’t become well informed on current and historical events. And it often shows in their “students.” Many of these students who go on to college are socially awkward because they weren’t exposed to people with different perspectives growing up.
ROFLMAO - what do they need to know about historical events? We stopped teaching history in the public schools a long time ago.

A+ for cheer-leading them though.
 

Henro

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ROFLMAO - what do they need to know about historical events? We stopped teaching history in the public schools a long time ago.

A+ for cheer-leading them though.
AND maybe that was not a wise thing. IF actually accurate.

I did not give your post a thumbs down...as I though it would be a waste of time.

Do you think NOT teaching history is a good thing? AND is that statement even true?

I will have to ask the two members of my family who are teachers. I do not know, but see the negative affects of not teaching history, if that is a true statement, and will wait to hear is the result of my questions.
 

skeets

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Well Henro I guess it is where you are the more red maybe they do than the blue. I just know that a few years ago when the grand kid came up from Miss, for vacation, one brought her school books to finish an assignment over the Holidays. As I thumbed through a history book I found things that were much different than what I learned about America. And the first amendment along with others were explained, however the 2nd was somehow over looked. I told her to ask her teacher about the 2nd, to my supprise she did. And was told, it was out mooted and needs to be repealed and no one needs to know about it or worry about it. So thats just one little bit of how history is being taught, if at all.
 
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Henro

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Well Henro I guess it is where you are the more red maybe they do than the blue. I just know that a few years ago when the grand kid came up from Miss, for vacation, one brought her school books to finish an assignment over the Holidays. As I thumbed through a history book I found things that were much different than what I learned about America. And the first amendment along with others were explained, however the 2nd was somehow over looked. I told her to ask her teacher about the 2nd, to my supprise she did. And was told, it was out mooted and needs to be repealed and no one needs to know about it or worry about it. So thats just one little bit of how history is being taught, if at all.
OK, point well taken.

But we should not take what one person (that teacher) says as representation of the whole population out there.

I still think that it is only the bad guys that DO NOT suffer from the right to carry restrictions placed on honest people. Although I do not feel the need to carry myself.

I also realize in the heat of the moment a good person might do something undesirable if he has a gun in his possession. BUT I think this is a minimal consideration...but do not know really.

I do know that over the years once every ten years I reacted out of character for me personally. Been somewhat aggressive. But that is rare. If I had had a weapon, who knows what the result might have been?

All the best...
 

bird dogger

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OK, point well taken.

But we should not take what one person (that teacher) says as representation of the whole population out there.

All the best...
I think you have to look at the bigger picture to see what the full affect is. It's not just one teacher with one book talking to one student.

At the very best it's only one school district in one state that's using that text. But the average school district has something like 6 schools in it. Some districts have well over a hundred individual schools in them. Chances are high that more than one school district in that state may be using the same text or group of texts. Multiply that by the number of states that could be pushing that curriculum for each of its school districts and the number skyrockets. (There's now probably some 17,000 school districts in the US.)

So depending on who is pushing the agenda for the publisher's to incorporate it in their texts (Whether it's math, history, science, english, art, etc.) and then pushing each state to push for each school district in their state to incorporate those texts in their class work, and then each district to push the school boards to use it in their schools ....... you start to realize just how many students are affected.

When we complained to our school board about the worthless math texts that were being used throughout the school, they said nothing could be done for years as they had just spent a large sum of money on that new curriculum and they still believed they were the greatest thing since sliced toast.

Some students suffered through and made it out the other end ok, probably with much help from home. But many others, according to our sons, didn't know how to balance a checkbook even, let alone problem solve. They found out that there supposedly excellent grades in high school didn't carry them through in their choice of college studies. Sad!!
 

DaveFromMi

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My wife taught in a school where it was forbidden to teach or discuss anything related to the Holocaust.
Let that sink in for a minute.
 
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Bmyers

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Not allowing history to be taught, both the good history, the bad history, and everything in between is a sure way of creating a society that will repeat the worst of the mistakes of their forefathers.
 
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