V3800 Tier 4 Dyno Setup Based on SVL90-2

[NPD]

Hello. I am hoping someone on this forum can help me. I constructed a dyno control system using OEM modules and harness from an SVL90-2 to run the V3800 on an engine dyno. I have the Kubota Denso Engine ECU, Main ECU, Meter and APPS.

I have the engine running on my stand but cannot increase throttle off idle. I have removed the DPF from the ECU using KTAG and I do not have any error codes in the Meter or DTCs in the Engine ECU. All the cab switches, inputs and hydraulic solenoids have been simulated. I can read codes and clear them with my version of Diagmaster but I cannot see any live data PIDs. I went through Service Mode in the Meter (no-01) and checked the settings, inputs, etc. My throttle has been calibrated correctly using Service Mode in the Meter (it completed). The only thing that is strange is that I cannot release the parking brake. The switch reads on and off in the Meter's service mode, but when I push it off with the engine running, the parking brake stays on. With my simulators I can unlock the hydraulic system when the engine is running, which is odd.

Is there something else I am missing? What in the skidtsteer is required to increase throttle? Sitting in the seat, starting it up, arm bars up or down? Then what? I am not familiar with the equipment itself, just trying to dyno test the engine.

Thank you for any help!

 

[greenacresnorth]

you need to have 2 Apps sensors, there is a hand dial that is one analog input to ECM and a second pot on the floor running a second analog input, also believe there is an idle validation circuit on one of the APPS, if ECM does not see both anolog inputs and idle validation your governor will not change states to variable. dont think park brake has anything to do with it, you can run high flow implements with HYD lock open and park brake on in a stationary situation.

 

[greenacresnorth]

do you have a ECM Pinout and a electrical diagram for this machine?, Im not super familiar with the SVL machines but I am with the Cat 289 and 299D machine that also run the V3800 and Denso ECM. I can compare the Cat and Kubota pinouts and see if i can isolate the root cause of the derate,

 

[NPD]

Thank you for your reply and the explanation of the stationary mode. It would make sense to be able to operate at governor speed while moving attachments.

I have the entire SVL90-2 WSM including the wiring diagram. The diagram only shows one APPS with two internal sensors, APPS1 and APPS2. They are inversely proportional when mapping 0 to 100%. There is no IVS in the sensor. Range is a calibrated amount stored in the Main ECU through the Service Mode. The hand control that mounts by the Meter on the right hand side runs a mechanical linkage to the foot pedal where the APPS sensor is mounted. I have seen other Denso applications using the hardwired APPS input you are talking about but it is not present on this machine in the Kubota WSM or parts catalog. The APPS is configured in the software of the Main ECU, not the Engine ECU. This control system is a unique setup that operates on 500 kbps CAN and all inputs to the Engine ECU are broadcast this way, along with all outputs from the Engine ECU. I will post the wiring diagram a little later for your review. Again thank you for your help.

 

[greenacresnorth]

ahhh didnt know about the mechanical hand throttle.... that makes things easier. the 2 pot APPS is common place along with no IVS, I know Cat uses IVS as a benchmark for pump controller startup cal programming. now that we have established the throttle system, is kubota monitoring Pump pressure either via output or loadsence line? is there a anti stall program or a pressure vs rpm map thats running thats looking for a pressure or a calculated flow rate that is keeping engine in idle MAP? what parameters can you see with kubota software? do you have an option to flash Denso as a standalone engine to take kubota out of the picture? I assume your playing with fuel/time tables so you are wanting to retain kubota for future uses?

 

[NPD]

Regarding the calibration, I am unable to see any of the maps. I have a KTAG Slave and obtained a DPF delete file with select DTCs and limiters removed. I have no other software to work with this Denso ECU, unlike other ECUs I work with. Therefore, I cannot take Kubota out of the picture. If there was a way I would gladly do it.

Fuel pressure is reported on CAN from the Engine ECU, and is a hardwired input from the FPS to the Engine ECU. Being common rail injection that is all I see.

I wish I could see data, install injector trim codes, run special tests, etc. in my version of Diagmaster. I can only read and clear codes (incomplete database). I am also using a Murphy 380 but the dataset is incomplete. It reports some data but other data is missing. Service Mode in the Meter gives me the most data. It is very hard to find "aftermarket" resources to support Kubota products.

The effort to retain Kubota is to test the engine per OEM specifications.

 

[NPD]

For anyone on this forum looking for the factory SVL90-2 wiring diagram, here it is:

https://mega.nz/#!PLQ3HaqQ!YPfIQIR4pVgVuREBInpWJyCCLaFKY88Jlse0yDw5Kpk

I have the complete Kubota WSM also if someone needs something specific.

 

[greenacresnorth]

do you have the throttle valve PID turned off and deleted? if it is but throttle is closed or not running a swing test, it could in theory take governor state control away?

 

[NPD]

No, it is on and working - does a sweep KOEO. I have three calibrations for the Engine ECU - Stock, DPF Delete and DPF Delete with all P codes removed.

I have tried all three calibrations in the ECU and they all do the same thing. The ECU is brand new and I had the dealer flash it so it was correct.

Do you have or happen to know where I can get a fully functional copy of a Diagmaster database? I got the DM program (4.2.0) from the dealer with Denso DST-i but will not be able to do much more without live data. All of my other ECU software is for light, medium and heavy duty gas and diesel.

 

[greenacresnorth]

I do not, everything I have Cat dealer level ET, less than useless for you.

 

[NPD]

Understood. I have CAT ET dealer level as well, among others.

The dealer has given me permission to inspect a skidsteer. I may elect to take my Engine ECU there and have it installed to test it in their equipment. I would be able to sniff the CAN bus and see what is different from my standalone dyno control setup versus stock.

It is a pain but without other options it is difficult. Funny though because I have everything out of the SVL90-2 to control the engine and something seemingly simple is missing or incorrectly configured that I cannot see.

 

[NPD]

I have resolved this issue and my dyno setup properly throttles up the engine now. All of my simulators were working properly - the missing piece was the crank sense for the Engine ECU and Main ECU. Both ECUs need to see a simultaneous, momentary 12 VDC signal when the engine is being cranked or the Engine ECU locks out throttle control. Does not need to come from the key switch, the ECUs just need to see a signal. No codes were ever set in Diagmaster or the Meter for this issue. The "Start Switch" PID is reported as a digital input in DM, and even though the "Target speed of Isochronous control" (CAN bus throttle) PID showed throttle increase with the engine running/idling, the "Idle Control Target" PID did not, which is how I figured it out.

Maybe this will help someone out someday.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Can you tell us what the need for this is?

 

[NPD]

The need for this...It was a project I was assigned at work. We have a fair number of NOS OEM Kubota V3800-CR-TE4 engines we purchased from someone's warheouse inventory. We want to dyno test them and verify they are good before we sell them. My primary role is to design and build engine dyno control systems to test gas and diesel engines.

From time to time in the R&D process I look in forums for help. With Kubota Denso systems there isn't much out there in the aftermarket to work with. While most people have no need for what I did, the interesting part is that if someone has a Kubota piece of equipment that exhibits the same condition I ran into, they could use this to help diagnose their problem. The factory scan tool wasn't that much help, I had to read between the lines. That is why I shared my findings.

If what I did for a living was easy, everyone would be doing it. If anyone on this forum has ever modified a Kubota Denso ECU calibration with KTAG, KESS or other JTAG devices out there, they will know what I am talking about.

Thanks for asking!

 

[ItBmine]

I'd be really interested if you come up with DPF deletes.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The need for this...

Thanks for explaining!

 

[NPD]

You're welcome!

I have a couple DPF delete calibrations for the V3800 Tier 4. However, I use them for testing purposes only and do not release them to the public.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks for the explanations NPD! While messing around in the computer controlled aspects of my tier 4 tractor is way above my pay grade, and no need since it works fine, I still find it interesting to hear how it works. Please continue comments whenever relevant.

 

[NPD]

You're welcome! I certainly will post when relevant.

Have a good day!

 

[RCW]

You guys could have posted this thread in Latin, and I would have a better chance at understanding it!!

Seriously, it drives home how technology-dependent modern machines are; whether tractors, cars/trucks, and even my garage door opener!!

Thanks, I did find this very interesting, even though I didn’t understand it!!


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