Using the PTO shaft at front of tractor.

[Stu]

Please bear with me as I know nothing about hydraulics other than the basics. What I'd like to know is would I be better off using the PTO direct of the front of the engine to power a hydraulic pump to power attachments on the 3pt linkage? My intention is to use a post driver & possibly a hedge cutter/trimmer. From what some Poeple tell me the hydraulics that power the rear end of the tractor might not be upto powering such machinery. If this is the case does anyone know if there's anything I can do to insure the pump is upto the job. From what I understand it all depends on the flow rate of the pump. Can I fit too big a pump? Therefore putting to much pressure on the system coursing it to fail? Or leak fluid under pressure. How would I find out the amount of hydraulic fluid I would need in a tank fixed to the tractor & pump??
If anyone has done anything like this I would love to see some photos of it to give me a head start.
Or would my tractors hydraulics have enough power to drive the attachments ??
Look forward to replies Stu

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yes you would be better off powering a pump off the front of the engine to run high demand hydraulics.

You need to size the pump to the demand requirements, but be warned if the pump demand is too high the engine will not be able to drive it and the tractor, so be frugal.

You don't use another tank, you use the fluid that is already in the tractor, so tee off of the suction line and give it a new return.

You will need a open center valve with a pressure regulator built in it for the system to operate properly!

 

[Bulldog]

I saw one somewhere done like you are talking about. They had external hyd tank and had even added a oil cooler and electric fan. If I remember right they were powering a hyd driven flail mower.

My old B7100 had a front mounted pump for the loader.

 

[Lil Foot]

My old B7100 had a front mounted pump for the loader.

Like this:

 

[Stu]

Thanks Gus your help is appreciated. Wolfman from what your saying it's best/easiest to use the hydraulic line on machine for the fluid supply. Excuses me for sounding stupid as this is all new to me. If I'm taking fluid from my machine to be pressured up by a pump at front of engine won't that leave the tractors hydraulics low on fluid as it would all be in the pipes & attachment it connected too.
The idea of going off the front PTO shaft was from seeing/hearing that Poeple use this to power a FEL however I should think a FEL would use far less fluid or pressure to operate it correctly.
I'm sure I will sort it all out eventually as I'm determined I will be able to power the various implements I want for it. I could of got a bigger machine to start with but finances aren't great & a smaller compact tractor will be easier to move between job sites & through narrow openings such as gates etc. my plans are to use this set-up for fencing work & ground care as my business is Fencing & Landscaping so the compact tractor fits my requirements better it's just the issue of it's power etc.
further down the line I will look into getting a FEL for it & the possibility of attaching a post driver to the FEL leaving the rear free to pull a trailer carrying all the materials I need etc. has anyone done anything similar?? If so do you have any photos you could post so I have a better idea of how I should go about setting this up. This is for the future all I want at the moment is to be able to drive a post driver & auger etc from the tractor. Anything else can wait until it's earned the dollar to pay for all the extra work.
My way of thinking is if I put the effort/money into getting this tractor set how I want then it will be perfect for it's purpose. Thanks all. Stu

 

[CountryBumkin]

Remember that the hydraulic system is "closed". Once all of the hoses and cylinders, etc. are full, top off the tank, and you shouldn't need to add oil again.
If you have removable implements (with quick-connects) those implements will stay full of oil, so the next time you use it you won't need to add more oil. There may be slight loss of oil from connecting/disconnecting but it will be minimal.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

CountryBumkin nailed it.

 

[Bulldog]

Like this:

Yep, looked just like that. The right loader up-right held the hyd fluid.

 

[Stu]

Thanks guys for the replies. So would I be correct thinking I would best by just tapping into the flow & return pipes coming from the engines hydraulic pump, going to another pump off the front PTO, with this pump powering the attachments via quick connect couplings?
Although you say once this has been plumbed in there will be no need for a tank for fluid as once it's set up & topped up being a closed system it stays full.
Would it still not be better to have to have a tank for fluid so if I attach a implement with bigger capacity the system will have sufficient fluid to power the implement without running low of fluid. Does this sound like it's worth doing or would you say I'm over complicating things unnecessarily ? As I will be using this set-up within my business it needs to be reliable so I'm happy to engineer & fabricate what will work the best yet have enough power to work the implement.
Thanks guys

 

[coachgeo]

If you want to add a tank anyway seems like you have two choices

1. Do as prescribed above. This setup essentially uses the tractors existing hydraulic system's as a reservoir to feed your front pump. But add a small tank between Tractors "out" line mentioned above and front Aux. PTO pump. This tank must be for a closed system. Think this will increase hydraulic capacity for the whole tractor adding some cooling benefits to the whole tractor's hydraulic system as well.

1.1 In fact; a large cooler in place of the tank in #1 may hold enough additional oil for your needs and benefit the whole system even more. Just a guess on my part though.

2. Skip creating an "out" and "back in" from tractors hydraulics. Just mount a separate hydraulic system to feed pump you install on the Aux. Front PTO pump. Will tank larger tank and maybe a cooler as well since the capacity will be significantly smaller than #1 thusly cycled thru quicker.

IMHO Do as NIW said earlier (he's the Guru not me) is what I'd recommend first. Second choice would be either #1 or 1.1 above if you want extra capacity and get a benny for the whole tractor at the same time.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You would only tap into the large suction line not the small pressure line, you will also need a valve (open center) before the quick disconnects and a new return back to the gear case.

It doesn't matter how "big the implement is" the hydraulic fluid is trapped in the lines and cylinders, so no drop in the amount of fluid will happen to the tractor.

The reason for an extra tank on the older loader setups was to keep the fluid separate from the tractor because of the difference in the amount of fluid needed for full extension of the loader cylinders, this could cause the fluid to become too low for the tractor operation.
The L's hold a lot more fluid then the B's did.

 

[Stu]

Thanks again IWman & Geo for the replies. Thinking about what you've said I may go down the route of plumbing a oil cooler into the front pump therefore giving me the extra fluid if needed but also keeping the existing fluid cooler & topped up at all times.
Thinking about it now had I known how much work would be required to get my machine up to the task of powering implements such as post driver & hedge cutter I think I would have been better off buying a bigger tractor already fitted wiv flow & returning hydraulics at the rear end via quick connect couplings, however as I've got this tractor once I've done the modifications needed I'm sure it will do the required job.
Thanks again guys your help has been great. Stu