Sometimes you just have to say it...

mikester

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Oct 21, 2017
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www.divergentstuff.ca
Too good to not copy and paste.


Dear #WalMart & #CVS, #HomeDepot and all other retail stores that almost exclusively utilizes self-checkout.

The last time I was there an employee was checking receipts at the exit and was stopping everyone. I didn't choose to participate in that nonsense, so I just skipped the exit line and walked out the door.
I heard her saying "Mam, Um Mam, as I kept walking and raised the receipt above my head, leaving the store. You can either trust me to do self-checkout, or you can put cashiers back in place like it used to be.

I'm not interested in proving that I did your job for you. You want me to be a cashier with no training then that's your problem not mine.

Don’t audit me for a position you refuse to employ.

Signed, All of us
Shop at Costco. You line up to get in. Line up to pay. Line up to leave. AND you have to line up to buy an annual membership to get in.
 
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The Evil Twin

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L2501
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Long story short- my wife used self checkout and was accused of not scanning a magazine. She also bought beer, wine and two 14lb brisket. She did scan the mag and pay for it. They were wrong. She asked why she would skip the mag and still pay for $100 in wine, $50 in beer and $100 in meat but skip on a $4 magazine. SMH..

re: Just so you know, HD does too. But.... you have to have an account. They scan your phone when you pull up the app.

great ,will HD BUY me a phone ? I'm old enough to NOT have one....
I sort of envy not having a phone. Lol.
You can also shop online and pickup at the store. The discount is applied there too. I almost always do this anyway because I never trust they have a widget in stock. I went to buy gray caulk and found none. Even though there were 84 in stock supposedly.
 

GeoHorn

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I don’t think it’s the employees who are stealing the merchandise. I believe it is ”customers” who do that. I was surprised one day to have hired a bricklayer (a recovering alcoholic homeless person participating in a church-program toward recovery)….who, in idle discussion told me about a time he and a partner worked to “boost” WalMart.
I asked what “boosting” meant…and he was surprised I didn’t know the term. (It basically consists of re-packaging items in the store to be charged a low price on a high-value item.) One of them would create a scene to distract the local shelf-stocker or employee while the other pulled off the switch.
As “Old Paint” pointed out above, many lowly-paid employees are math-challenged (although reading thru his description I was at-first puzzled as to his $7.11 payment for the $6.61 item…. I believe I would have offered the 11-cents after I’d handed the initial payment of $7…thereby slightly creating the impression of a separate transaction “for change”…. which would be more understandable on the face of it. LOL

Anyway, lowly-paid or inexperienced cashiers make sufficient mistakes handling money that losses are avoided by self-checkout…especially when pay-stations are “credit/debit card only”.

Now comes the problem of the sneaky booster who scans one bottle of anti-freeze when two were actually in the cart….or at Home Depot (another retailer who has resorted to self-checkouts) when a $4 plastic water spigot is scanned twice when one of the spigots was actually a $12 one of brass.

The actual ability to catch the sneaky-booster is not so much the intent of the receipt-cop at the door… as it is to discourage such activity by each-and-every customer knowing they have a high-likelihood of being checked as they exit.

Personally, I LIKE self-checkout, especially when I have only a few items and cashiered-checkouts are full of ladies with basketfuls of stuff (especailly items like clothing which slow things down to remove security-tags and clothes-hangers.) The only time I find it troublesome is when I have beer or wine or aerosols and have to stand around waiting for a “checker” to approve the purchase.

The REAL problem is lack of civility…. amongst our fellow-shoppers….who get incensed over such a minor issue and act rude to their fellow humans. I’m always amazed at the folks who pride themselves in letting everyone know piously they go to church and are proud Americans….but hate or distrust the foreigner and have no sympathy for the poor or the lame, sick, (would that include the obese?) or elderly…or show disrespect to the lowly Walmart Greeter who is only trying to earn his wage (sorry as it is.)
 
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DaveFromMi

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L3901, 5' Bush Hog
Apr 14, 2021
405
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Indiana
So this person is high and mighty and thinks it is just so damn grand to give grief to an hourly employee that is just trying to get by. You don't like the way Walmart checks you , fine, shop elsewhere ! Leave the rank and file alone.

Back off my soap box.
Straw Man argument.
 

GeoHorn

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A 'thief' will most often try to HIDE a stolen item, meaning it would be bagged or hidden on the their person anyway. Doesn't make sense to me....to check (basically suspect/accuse) every shopper in hopes of finding a few thieves. No other store/company I shop at does this. I am told that Sams Club 'can' do this (at their discretion) since you agree to it with your membership.


All the other stores in my community understand this and don't insult their customers.
Sophisticated theives operate in full-view, broad-daylight, and avoid suspicious behavior such as “hiding” things. They act openly…and boldly… outrageously even.

I’ve witnessed shoplifters being accosted by store personnel and security/police making the arrests and the thing which stood out in both cases was the LOUD PROTESTATIONS of INNOCENCE and Mistreatment Claims of Rudeness against the Store.

Perhaps thou doth protest too much. ;)
 

Flintknapper

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Sophisticated theives operate in full-view, broad-daylight, and avoid suspicious behavior such as “hiding” things. They act openly…and boldly… outrageously even.

I’ve witnessed shoplifters being accosted by store personnel and security/police making the arrests and the thing which stood out in both cases was the LOUD PROTESTATIONS of INNOCENCE and Mistreatment Claims of Rudeness against the Store.

Perhaps thou doth protest too much. ;)
Thieves come from a cross section of the public....so some will do as you say. But I have my doubts you'll find much 'sophistication' among those who pilfer Walmart goods. These aren't exactly diamond thieves.

In the 25 years I've been shopping at our local Walmart...I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen anyone being detained and that was by local LEO (called to make the arrest).
I'm sure some shoplifters (especially these days) claim innocence, abuse, rudeness, racism, mistreatment and probably feel 'entitled' to do what they do as a form of reparation....who knows. There are some nutty people out there and I don't feel sorry for them.

So no.....I don't protest too much. Arrest those who have been observed stealing (for which you have evidence and probable cause), prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. And leave the law abiding alone....instead of casting a wide net in hopes of catching a few. If this were such a successful theft protection technique....I imagine we would see it employed at more establishments.

How would you like to go from one place to another while running your errands in town and at EACH place, be stopped and asked for your receipt while they check it against your purchases? I think folks would quickly grow tired of that. But since that isn't the case (thankfully) some are happy to comply with the inconvenience Walmart imposes.

There are already Shopkeeper Privilege laws in just about every State. Using that law however requires surveillance personnel and establishing Probable Cause before detaining a suspect. Walmart cut back on checkers to save money, same thing with Theft Protection personnel. Likely creating a situation where shoplifters feel more emboldened.

You or others that want to stop and be checked for your lawful purchase (which is YOUR property now, not the store's) are welcome to do so. I am not a thief and refuse to be treated as such. Maybe I'm Old Fashioned and just have more pride than others (what a shame). But... don't accuse me without good cause, I will not stand for it. That isn't being 'high and mighty' that is knowing right from wrong and standing up for it.
 
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DustyRusty

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Woman falsely arrested for shoplifting at Walmart is awarded $2.1 million in damages
An Alabama woman who says she was falsely arrested for shoplifting at a Walmart and then threatened by the company after her case was dismissed has been awarded $2.1 million in damages.

A Mobile County jury on Monday ruled in favor of Lesleigh Nurse of Semmes, news outlets reported. Nurse said in a lawsuit that she was stopped in November 2016 when trying to leave a Walmart with groceries she said she already paid for, according to AL.com. She said she used self-checkout but the scanning device froze. Workers didn't accept her explanation and she was arrested for shoplifting.
 
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Flintknapper

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Woman falsely arrested for shoplifting at Walmart is awarded $2.1 million in damages



Hard to know if She was right or wrong without more substantiated information.

IF (as the article asserts) the 'Scanner Froze' (before she paid for all items) then the woman should have summoned help from an associate. I've had a scanner do the same thing and we had to reset and re-scan everything.

If the scanner froze after payment but did not issue her a 'receipt' then that is quite a different matter. I would not expect her to wait on the machine to be repaired/reset in order for her to prove to store personnel that she payed for the items.

There are other means of proving that (security recordings and bank statements). So yeah....Walmart's 'policy' of blanket checking patrons might have bit them in the butt this time....when they rushed to judgment.

In which case....I would have found in her favor if I were on that jury. But I can't see the judgement for 2.1 Million being fair to Walmart. I would not have agreed to that. That sounds more like a greedy Lawyer to me than a reasonable punitive figure for Walmart's actions.
 
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Lil Foot

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I hate self checkout, and will not use it. Every time someone uses self checkout, another American loses their job.

Back eons ago when I worked retail, we prosecuted shoplifters & purse snatchers to the fullest extent of the law. The company I worked for even gave me a bonus for chasing down & subduing purse snatchers on two different occasions, and stopping an attempted robbery at the bank branch in the store.
I went to court as a witness for the company on 5 separate occasions.

Now, the local CVS tells us that a guy comes in once or twice a week, (for almost two years!) takes one or two qt bottles of beer, some snacks, and walks out saying "Touch me & I'll sue".
The cops aren't interested, especially with their 45min to 1 hr response time.
So all of us get to buy this POS his beer & snacks.
CVS will not allow employees to interfere.
If it were up to me, the guy would get one chance to put the stuff back & never return, or get a 230gr solution to the problem.

The wife & her 89yr old mother almost got knocked down at the local Big Lots by a POS woman running out of the store with a basket full of DVDs. (store figured about 80)
She jumped into a waiting car and was gone.
Employees told us either her or guy the driving the car come in about every two weeks and steal something, and they hit all the local Big Lots stores one after the other.
Big Lots will not allow employees to interfere.
They have stopped calling the cops all together.
And all of us get to pay for their crimes.
Again, 230gr will stop that S&@$. Maybe two in this case.

I better stop here, I might say something political next. :mad:🤬
 

NCL4701

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I’m one of those who actually prefers self check. It’s usually just faster.

Being a Sam’s member for many years likely conditioned me to the receipt check thing: they’ve done that as long as I’ve been a member even before self check. Worst thing about going there was always the check out line. There was always at least a couple of groups in line buying half a small box truck load of something. When they implemented the app that allowed scanning with your own phone as you went through the store and then hit a button to pay with credit card or debit card without even going through a self check line, it sped the process tremendously even having to still go through the receipt checker. They still have the same quantity of checkout lines and cashiers as they’ve always had and the lines are as bad as ever.

Walmart here tried the same thing for a short time as part of a pilot program. We never signed up. They stopped after a short time due to an unacceptable level of theft (at least that’s the reason we heard).

Lowes, Home Depot; at least their self check observers are readily available to help when needed. Walmart, not so much. I’ve been in our 24 hour Walmart in the middle of the night, shopped, self checked, and walked out without ever seeing another soul in the whole place.

For the most part I prefer self check if done correctly, and I really don’t care if they want to check my receipt or not. I really just want to get what I need and get out as quickly as possible.

And as a person who manages people, it’s my opinion employees are simultaneously my most valuable asset and my most consistently vexing problem. Machines don’t get FMLA, they don’t file lawsuits, they’re depreciable, and if you no longer need them they’re easily scrapped. People, not so much. If a person can be replaced with a machine of some sort, most businesses are going with the machine.
 

aaluck

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I have mixed feelings about this. They do this at costco as well. I do feel a bit like they are questioning my integrity.

Pure and simple this is a huge cost saver, as it is taking jobs away from folks (assuming anyone wants to work anymore-which may be what started all of this). If you remember before all of this they would have at least a dozen folks checking you out. Now they have one person standing there pointing you to the next available computer and one at each door. That frees up at least 7 folks to do the picking of the online shoppers.
 

aaluck

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Every time someone uses self checkout, another American loses their job.
This is exactly my point above. My only question is is this out of necessity or greed. The reason I ask is EVERYWHERE I go has a help wanted sign or billboard out front.
 

Flintknapper

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This is exactly my point above. My only question is is this out of necessity or greed. The reason I ask is EVERYWHERE I go has a help wanted sign or billboard out front.

I think it makes good business sense in some circumstances. I'd like to see a better 'balance' of available Checkers and self check lanes. Our Walmart (supercenter) is located in a relatively small college town (about 45,000 population when school is out)....perhaps 60K when school is in.

Admittedly, in the past... there were more checkers than were needed. But now the opposite is true. We have exactly TWO 'checker' lanes and at least 20 Self Check stations.

I don't mind Self Check (once I got used to it) as I can check myself out pretty quickly. Bag my items as I see fit. Sometimes you have to wait on an associate to 'clear' an item or verify age (paint product, alcohol, etc). My issue is not with that. I just don't want to be delayed on my out....when I've done nothing wrong. It isn't my job to make things convenient for Walmart.

I don't think our store has the annual sales figures or profit margins to go back to having full time checkers in the numbers they once did. I understand the need for some businesses to 'trim the fat' and to change business models in order to make up for online sales that create competition for them.

I do a LOT of online shopping for items that aren't groceries. Many other folks do as well. In the aggregate, that isn't good for local businesses. So I wouldn't think local businesses would want to do anything its customers might find abrasive.
 

notaz3

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Mar 16, 2021
54
52
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ID
In California the minimum wage pushed business to go with more self checkout.
As far as theft, there is nothing an employee can do. They are told to not confront someone to prevent the risk of confrontation/harm.

Once I pay for an item it becomes mine. I no longer need to show proof that it is mine. It is up to the business to prove it is there's; so, I don't show anything but a polite "have a great day" when walking out the door. Costco and Sam's club are exceptions because it's part of the membership agreement.
 

Oo-v-oO

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I prefer self checkout, as well. The fewer people I have to deal with the better.

But... If you are going to entrust me to do my own checkout, I refuse to allow you to treat me like a common thief. I know that the people asking to see my receipt are just doing what they are hired to do so I don't hassle them, but I also know they are not allowed to detain me so what I do is not even break stride, smile, and in the nicest way possible simply say "No, thank you" when asked to produce papers. Not one has ever made an effort to follow or stop me, and most just say "OK, have a nice day".
 
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jyoutz

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I prefer self checkout, as well. The fewer people I have to deal with the better.

But... If you are going to entrust me to do my own checkout, I refuse to allow you to treat me like a common thief. I know that the people asking to see my receipt are just doing what they are hired to do so I don't hassle them, but I also know they are not allowed to detain me so what I do is not even break stride, smile, and in the nicest way possible simply say "No, thank you" when asked to produce papers. Not one has ever made an effort to follow or stop me, and most just say "OK, have a nice day".
I do the same.
 
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Biker1mike

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Do you ask the store to turn off the electronic tag readers at the door before you exit or are you okay with that theft checker ? Do you ask to have the in store cameras not track you ?
How about DWI check points ? Do you run these stops since you do not drink and drive ?
Perhaps it is just because it so easy to look down at a Walmart employee.

Just a little back ground ! After I retired, I worked part time at Lowes as a wind down job, People that a year earlier would have called me Mr. XXXXXXX or Sir were down right rude and demeaning. If you want to earn respect you should give respect.
 
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lugbolt

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They wanna put me on payroll, I'll check groceries. Not until then. Thus, there are 2 other stores in this little bitty town and I chose to shop at those. Better stuff, better people, better store. It costs about a dollar more for the same items, big deal. I'll pay the extra dollar. Self-checkout is an absolute joke, and is exactly the product of a much higher minimum wage much the same as automated fast food places (kiosks).

I have used the self-checkout. I tried it. The issues are many. First you are on camera and that is taped. Not a big issue there as I don't have anything to hide, I just don't care for it. Second if you screw up and scan something twice, now you have to holler for someone to help and they don't always want to, they'll be standing out in front of the store smoking a cigarette, on the phone, or just standing there watching and too lazy to come address the situation I just put myself into. Or they're not even around at all, stocking shelves or whatever. Third, these people are paid to work, make them work. Standing there is not working in my opinion. Fourthly, interraction between checker and customer is a big deal, and not only for the customer--also for the checkout people. Lastly, theft is very very easy with self-checkout and that in itself can easily offset any savings that were gained by eliminating one employee.

On the min wage deal, if you have to pay a checkout person $35,000/yr salary, what's that machine cost? And what's the cost over a years' time? And how much money is theft and/or incorrect checkout costing? I would bet that the difference between live and robot is narrower than you think.
 

Old_Paint

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I find folks typically react the same way they're being treated. Sometimes, that door watch doesn't want to be there because they'd rather be doing something else. I get it. But don't be nasty to me thinking I'm afraid of a door watch. I'll typically wave the receipt at them and keep walking and smile. They usually just smile back. Walmart certainly doesn't have anything I want to steal, nor am I likely going to miss scanning something that I went there to get. I go BUYING, not SHOPPING. I know what I went after and it better be on the receipt if I actually got it. My daughter works at a Walmart, and she'd much rather be on an actual register than on self-check monitor. It keeps her busier and makes her shift go by a lot faster.

But, I see the business side of it as well. As pointed out, those machines will stand there for years and not get tired. At most, someone has to come by once in a while to put a new paper roll in it.

THEN, you get the places that allow you to opt for electronic receipt via e-mail, and I do exactly that. What's the person at the door going to do? I'd have NOTHING to prove I paid for anything, whether bagged or not. Nothing for them to look at, so I sure as heck ain't stopping. I don't have time for that crap if I was in a big enough hurry to check myself out and send the receipt to my e-mail. And NO do store apps for checkout and scanning because I refuse to link my phone to every aspect of my life. I like to be able to leave it laying on the nightstand if I want to and NOT miss it. If verifying my order is that important, then open another register.
 

Flintknapper

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Do you ask the store to turn off the electronic tag readers at the door before you exit Do you ask to have the in store cameras not track you ?

No, in fact these are exactly the things I WANT them to do. These methods are effective and time proven.

How about DWI check points ? Do you run these stops since you do not drink and drive ?

Not legal in my State. We require LEO to actually witness an INDIVIDUAL displaying a reason to stop, not set up fishing expeditions.

Perhaps it is just because it so easy to look down at a Walmart employee.

Not sure why you keep going back to this....but it seems a recurring theme (looking down on someone). I've said repeatedly it is NOT about the person, it is about the policy and the position it puts the person in. Not sure why that is such a burr under your saddle?

Just a little back ground ! After I retired, I worked part time at Lowes as a wind down job, People that a year earlier would have called me Mr. XXXXXXX or Sir were down right rude and demeaning. If you want to earn respect you should give respect.

Well that's a bit of an oxymoron me thinks. Is respect earned or is it given (just handed out mutually)? I think you may have 'courtesy' mixed up with respect. I try to exercise common courtesy with every person I am in contact with until they give me a reason not to.

Respect is quite a different cat. A much deeper element. There are more than a few people walking around these days that feel they are automatically 'owed' respect. In fact they 'demand' it. I can tell you one thing, 'demanding' I respect you (not you, but anyone) is the surest way to secure my ire.

I have no idea your past work history or lifestyle. I'll assume the people you referred to either thought highly of you (you had earned their respect) or were forced to feign 'respect' by virtue of your position, I don't know. If you mean that the same people (literally) looked down on you because of your position at Lowe's then either you never had their respect or there is something really wrong with them.

Are there discourteous people out there, you bet. Are there judgmental folks walking about? Yes, far too many, always have been. We are currently living in extremely divisive times. More so than I've ever seen in my 68 yrs. and I don't expect it to get any better. But I don't think folks should wear their feelings on their sleeve and then get all butt-hurt (under the guise of disrespect) if they aren't summarily treated as the wonderful snowflake they see themselves as.

Anyone deserving of respect will certainly get it from me, but I don't just fling it out there right and left.
^^^^^

Expand for replies. Thanks
 
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