Seeking Advice

[fransser]

Hello all,
real quick background. My tractor, bx2380, was/is having a transmission (assumption) problem of some sort. I talked with the service center and checked everything to no avail. I finally took the tractor in for them to diagnose and repair. They called me back a day or so later and said that they thought the issue was probably a spider gear or perhaps a broken dog clutch.

Now they have completely disassembled the tranny and just today told me there is nothing wrong - that they can find. They did say there might be one other thing causing the issue (not tranny related).

My more general question is this - what do I owe them (financially) considering that the diagnosis has been (at least thus far) inconclusive and they've basically performed exploratory surgery without knowing what they have been looking for.

As you might imagine, I'm feeling very frustrated at the moment.
Thanks

 

[85Hokie]

I would hope that it is under a warranty - you should have a couple of years on that new of a machine.

WHAT was the machine doing that lead you to believe it had transmission problems?

 

[fransser]

I would hope that it is under a warranty - you should have a couple of years on that new of a machine.

WHAT was the machine doing that lead you to believe it had transmission problems?

It's kind of difficult to describe. Under a load, like trying to dig dirt from a hill, the tractor will start to stall and then the rear tires will just kind of shudder (like their going back and forth). I don't think the tires are actually going backward, but rather just trying to go forward and not being able to, then starting the whole thing again. I bought the tractor used and as far as I know, there is no warranty.

 

[Steve Neul]

If it's not under warranty and you authorized them to do the work, I think you are on the hook for it. I would expect them to discount the work a lot but their mechanics don't work for free. The experience I've had is mechanical work is 90% guesswork. It's why I work on everything myself. I can guess as good as anyone.

To me it sounds like the clutch is slipping. If that is the case it may be the linkage is not adjusted right. Also it may be getting some oil on the clutch plate.

 

[Fordtech86]

Im responding to your general question from the auto world and not the tractor world.

Has the dealer verified your concern? If they did, did they notify you they did and let you know that they needed to disassemble to inspect and give you an estimate for the exploration? Did you give consent to such exploration? More info is needed to answer the question as to what you should be responsible for at this point.

 

[whitetiger]

If it's not under warranty and you authorized them to do the work, I think you are on the hook for it. I would expect them to discount the work a lot but their mechanics don't work for free. The experience I've had is mechanical work is 90% guesswork. It's why I work on everything myself. I can guess as good as anyone.

To me it sounds like the clutch is slipping. If that is the case it may be the linkage is not adjusted right. Also it may be getting some oil on the clutch plate.

The BX series tractors do not have a clutch as the propeller shaft to drive the hydro state is bolted to the front crankshaft pulley.

 

[whitetiger]

It's kind of difficult to describe. Under a load, like trying to dig dirt from a hill, the tractor will start to stall and then the rear tires will just kind of shudder (like their going back and forth). I don't think the tires are actually going backward, but rather just trying to go forward and not being able to, then starting the whole thing again. I bought the tractor used and as far as I know, there is no warranty.

Did you or the dealer check the fuel flow to the injection pump? It may just be a low fuel supply.
If you approved the teardown, you are on the hook for the bill. You can talk to the Dealer and try to get a break on the bill.
Their diagnoses makes no sense anyway, there is no "dog clutch" in the drive train and a broken spider gear will affect your rear-wheel drive but will not affect your front-wheel drive.

 

[fransser]

Well, when the tractor exhibits the problem the rear wheels shudder and the front tires spin. So perhaps their diagnosis is more understandable now. As I said though, no broken anything to explain the behaviour.

 

[whitetiger]

Well, when the tractor exhibits the problem the rear wheels shudder and the front tires spin. So perhaps their diagnosis is more understandable now. As I said though, no broken anything to explain the behaviour.

There was nothing about the front tires spinning in your description of the failure. If the front tires are spinning, which is driven by the pinion shaft, that only leaves the teeth on the pinion shaft and ring gear, the differential gears or axle shaft splines. A failure of any of those would not load and jerk the rear tires without a great deal of noise. There also would be metal at the drain plug.
Have the dealer put your rear tires on another unit, leave it in two-wheel drive and try pushing something. This will tell you which rear wheel is slipping in the tire.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: It's kind of difficult to describe. Under a load, like trying to dig dirt from a hill, the tractor will start to stall and then the rear tires will just kind of shudder

I'm thinking the BX2380 is a cousin to my BX23S ? if so...
Is this while in HIGH range or LOW range ??

Kinda important to know. My BX23s won't 'dig into a hill' in HIGH range and 'stall/stutter'. drop into LOW range, it'll push til the cows come home.

 

[RCW]

I'm wondering if this a new operator issue...no offense intended to the OP.

There is a ratio for 4 wheel drive operation, where the fronts pull just a little faster than the rears. Could cause the fronts to spin while the rears "shudder."

I will also add that your little BX is not a Caterpillar D8 Dozer, nor 988 Loader. Pushing it too hard will tear things apart.

 

[fransser]

So to follow up with this thread, this is what was happening.

Whether it is called a "dog clutch" or not, there are two plates as part of the diff lock assembly. One has pins, the other has holes. When one tire spins, engaging the differential lock pushes the pins of the one plate into the holes of the other plate.

As best as the dealer can tell, the shudder was caused by the pin trying to engage in one set of holes, spinning out and trying to engage in the next set of holes and so on. There was something in the diff lock linkage that was binding up. The service manager said he thought linkage was causing the pins to "barely make contact". He said he was surprised I ever able to make the diff lock work. They've corrected whatever was wrong in the linkage and now the diff lock engages easily (as long as one tire is spinning). You do need to make the tires rotate at different rates to engage the diff lock (like when you turn) assuming you are just trying to engage the lock.

 

[whitetiger]

Your POST#3 "It's kind of difficult to describe. Under a load, like trying to dig dirt from a hill, the tractor will start to stall and then the rear tires will just kind of shudder (like their going back and forth). I don't think the tires are actually going backward, but rather just trying to go forward and not being able to, then starting the whole thing again. I bought the tractor used and as far as I know, there is no warranty."

Your POST #8 "Well, when the tractor exhibits the problem the rear wheels shudder and the front tires spin. So perhaps their diagnosis is more understandable now. As I said though, no broken anything to explain the behaviour."

Now you claim the problem was just the differential lock. You have either miss reported the symptoms, or the dealer is not telling you the whole story.
It is virtually impossible for the front tires to spin while the rear tires judder, but not spin because of the diff lock failing. One rear tire would have to spin for the front tires to spin.

 

[GeoHorn]

Wow. This is a great example of a “Failure to Communicate”..... which happens to be the MOST COMMON cause of customer vs service-dept arguments. As both the Maintenance Manager of a large fleet... And as a Service-tech, and a Service Dept Mgr.....I’ve seen it so many times it boggles the mind.
It usually goes something like this:
Custoomer VERBALLY tells the Service Mgr/Writer/Rep he has a problem and POSITS what his opinion of the failure. The Service Mgr/Writer/Rep says they can ”look into it and advise.... sign HERE on the dotted-line of the Work Order.”
The customer leaves the facility and is shocked when nothing is found or something minor is the cause and the Invoice is an Astronomical Sum.
The Service Dept is owed the Sum and the Customer is infuriated. Argument ensues and Svc Dept
”settles” in order to salvage the customer who actually will never return and will bad-mouth the shop.... never recognizing it was the Customers failure to communicate he wished to limit his authorization of expenditure along with the shops’ investigation... YET he “authorized” the work when he signed the W.O.

Whose fault is this? Both.
The Customer for lousy communication regarding his expectations.
The Shop for lousy communication in failing to inform the customer the potential cost prior to expending that amount of labor.

Solution: IMO, the solution is for customer to describe and place his complaint and his expectations IN WRITING upon the W.O. , and noting the shops’ Estimated Cost to diagnose before signing.

This problem is illustrated-again in this thread..... I did not understand that the OP had attempted to use the Diff-Lock as part/parcel of the reported difficulty until very late in the reading. I wonder what the shop thought the issue was....

 

[Orange man hero]

I know there are some dealers in other mechanical machines that will take a trans apart, tell you something is wrong when it is not and want to charge a big repair bill. So always be careful.