New house/driveway. Boxblade vs landplane?

dirtydeed

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I'm not going to comment on which implement to use but you really need to use road fabric (in that wet section) and put some larger aggregate (like #3's or 4's) down on top of the road fabric before you top it with stone. You may even have enough elevation to run some culvert pipe thru that wet section.

Without fabric and a good base, you're going to lose all of your new stone rather quickly.

The rest of your road can be smoothed with almost any rear grading implement. Just make sure that you crown it so that the water runs off.

Best of luck to you.
 
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jimh406

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Without fabric and a good base, you're going to lose all of your new stone rather quickly.
That seems to be specific to the climate. In my area, for instance, we don't get that much precipitation. I haven't seen anyone use fabric. Not that I've seen every drive being built.
 

fried1765

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Thanks for the reply. I am seriously considering putting some material down in the really bad section that is natural soil. I don't know exactly how much it will amount to but I'm guessing I'm looking at about 50-60 tons for a basic 10' driveway up to the side of the house. In any case, I had also considered the rear blade, but like you said it works better with new material. I think the blade probably gives my less versatility than a box blade and is much harder to use than a landplane. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.
Yes....A "scrape blade" does have a learning curve.
A land plane is basically just..... "drag it, and you get what you get",..... no technique required.
A box blade is best at moving material from high spots to low spots.

Your primary problem in the pictures is that no attachment will work well for you without Adding much more material.
As a guess, and judging from your pictures, 50-60 tons, might be suitable to improve a 10' x 400 ft. length of your driveway.
 

fried1765

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General upkeep on the driveway. Putting in a few other dirt paths/drives for tractor travel around the property. Maybe some grading in certain areas. I was planning on using the bucket to make some ditches along the driveway/path areas, but if I got the blade or boxblade I could do that. Other than that, anything that comes up. If a neighbor needs help with something. Etc.
The THREE most important criteria for constructing a roadway/driveway are.... DITCHES-DITCHES- DITCHES !!!!
 
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NCL4701

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The major issue with a box blade is that it cannot be angled.
Great for moving/scraping dirt/material from A to B, but not for building, and holding a crown.
I don’t usually say things quite like this but don’t know how else to say it. If you (or anyone else) can’t build and maintain a crown with a box blade that is NOT a reflection on the capabilities of a box blade.
 
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fried1765

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I'm not going to comment on which implement to use but you really need to use road fabric (in that wet section) and put some larger aggregate (like #3's or 4's) down on top of the road fabric before you top it with stone. You may even have enough elevation to run some culvert pipe thru that wet section.

Without fabric and a good base, you're going to lose all of your new stone rather quickly.

The rest of your road can be smoothed with almost any rear grading implement. Just make sure that you crown it so that the water runs off.

Best of luck to you.
YUP.....
"Crown".... IS the key word, the importance of which is often not fully understood.
 
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fried1765

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I don’t usually say things quite like this but don’t know how else to say it. If you (or anyone else) can’t build and maintain a crown with a box blade that is NOT a reflection on the capabilities of a box blade.
I have never seen a construction type road grader dragging a box blade below!
 

fried1765

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I don’t usually say things quite like this but don’t know how else to say it. If you (or anyone else) can’t build and maintain a crown with a box blade that is NOT a reflection on the capabilities of a box blade.
[/QUOTE

At 82 years old, and a Civil & Highway Engineering graduate, I like to think that I know a little about road building, and the equipment BEST suited for the task.
 

Flintknapper

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You can angle, tilt and offset. Things that you can’t do with a box blade. You can also cut ditches. The angle of the top link determines how it cuts, and if you just want to smooth gravel, you can reverse the blade 180 degrees and it will just smooth, not cut. But get a good blade that has those features and as heavy as your tractor can handle. Light blades just bounce if the gravel is hard packed.
^^^^^

This.

Going by what the OP has 'now' for a drive.....I wouldn't have to give it any thought at all.

A rear grader/scraper blade is easily the most versatile implement to use. Yes, there is a learning curve, so what. Do it.

When I need to 'break up' hard packed gravel road and move it around some....I use my box blade. IF a person already has a decent road and needs to mostly 'maintain' it....that is where a Land Plane shines.

Grader blade (and some practice) will let you build a road, fill in pot holes, pull up material from the edges so you can 'crown' and cut a 'ditch' along the side of the road.

But get a 'good' one. Heavy built and heavy in weight. Needs to be able to angle to cut ditches. Then go to work. (y)
 
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jimh406

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I have never seen a construction type road grader dragging a box blade below!
I've never seen one with a tiny blade either. ;). I do know that one of the guys who does our road isn't very good at it. They tend to do it when it's wet. We asked for more gravel, so they added more fines which didn't help very much.

Honestly, our "unmaintained" portion of the county road (maintained with a Land Plane and my L2501) is better than the one maintained with conventional equipment by the county. It's not even close.
 

Flintknapper

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I've never seen one with a tiny blade either. ;). I do know that one of the guys who does our road isn't very good at it. They tend to do it when it's wet. We asked for more gravel, so they added more fines which didn't help very much.

Honestly, our "unmaintained" portion of the county road (maintained with a Land Plane and my L2501) is better than the one maintained with conventional equipment by the county. It's not even close.
Well.....there is another factor at play there as well. YOU 'care' about the job you do.

County employee.....could give a Rats Arse....how it turns out.

No doubt a commercial grader is not the best choice for every job, but a skilled operator that works with pride can do some amazing things with one.

The guy that maintains our Farm to Market road must have been born in a grader.

He can cut ditches, grade perfect, smooth runs. I'd wager (and I really mean this) that he could scoot a flattened beer can along and not take a blade of grass or ounce of dirt with it. He knows exactly where that blade is at all times.
 
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fried1765

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I've never seen one with a tiny blade either. ;). I do know that one of the guys who does our road isn't very good at it. They tend to do it when it's wet. We asked for more gravel, so they added more fines which didn't help very much.

Honestly, our "unmaintained" portion of the county road (maintained with a Land Plane and my L2501) is better than the one maintained with conventional equipment by the county. It's not even close.
You obviously have a county grader operator who is not good at the job.
Grader operator technique is perfected over many years.
I have never operated a grader, but I have seen several operators who seemingly could almost cut hair with a grader blade.

VERY wet is not a good grading time, but moist is excellent.
 
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jyoutz

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That seems to be specific to the climate. In my area, for instance, we don't get that much precipitation. I haven't seen anyone use fabric. Not that I've seen every drive being built.
It’s not just specific to climate. It’s mostly dependent on soil type. Fabric may be needed in a wet climate with heavy clay soil, but a sandy or loam soil in the same wet climate may not.
 
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NCL4701

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I have never seen a construction type road grader wearing a box blade!
Since you brought it up, it is kind of interesting the comparison between the selection of implements folks like us here use with farm type tractors in comparison to high dollar machines built from the ground up for a task.

There are road graders (the long wheelbase, blade in the middle things you mentioned). There are dozers with 6 way blades with open ends. There are dozers with what I’ve always heard called dozer blades that have closed ends. The road grader is by far the most versatile for grading roads, particularly final grading, a dirt/gravel road or parking lot. The bulldozers with the closed end “dozer” blades are the big boy version closest to the function of the boxblade. The 6 way blade on a dozer (usually a small one) seems to be the closest to a backblade on a tractor and works quite well for grading non-road things such building lots where the road grader is quite unwieldy.
Pretty sure any of the three can make a road and cut a ditch to drain a ponding front yard. Not quite sure what any of this has to do with the OP running something behind a MX5400.

Clearly you like your backblade. I’m happy for you. I like my backblade as well. I also like my box scrape but admittedly would like it less if I didn’t have a clue how to use it. I do not have, and have never had, a grading scraper so any comment I made on grading scrapers would have virtually no merit, thus those comments are best left to others who have that knowledge.
 
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jyoutz

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Hello all,
First let me apologize for rehashing this topic for the thousandth time. I cannot find a good discussion about this particular context.
I recently had a new house built on acreage. I am buying an MX5400 for mowing, brush clearing, some dirt moving, and general tasks/maintenance. However, we have some initial tasks that are outside of the normal scope of the tractors use. I have three problems that I need to address immediately. These are in no particular order.

1. There is an existing farm road running through the property. It is about 800' until it reaches our house. The road is very old and has developed more than a few potholes. From what I can tell it's basically sandy fill dirt that has been hard packed over time. When it's wet it either runs off or collects in the potholes/low spots, and makes mudholes. When it's dry the material is very dusty. With all the construction vehicles coming in and out it got much worse. It looks like they wore through the road base down to the soil below in some spots.

2. There is a 200' section between where the farm road is and where our house sits off in the field. During the summer there was no problem. The vehicles coming in and out packed the soil and any rain was quickly evaporated in a day or less. The construction went into November and December and now that section is a giant mudpit that doesn't drain. It takes about 5 days of warm weather to evaporate. We get appreciable rain about every 3-6 days in the winter.

3. The construction company brought in fill dirt, which is mostly sand, to grade/slope away from the house. It is a rough grade and already has some low spots forming about 40-50' away from the house. There are also some small rain washouts forming. The house sits in a previously row crop field, and our soil is mostly sandy loam. It drains very quickly in most areas, but some areas are hard packed because of the vehicles. There is also vegetation growing everywhere.

Here's what I'd like to do.
1. Regrade the driveway, without adding new material (right now). I will add stone later, but we are on a tight budget with the state of things these days. I would like to basically just fix the potholes for now, and ideally add a crown to the farm road.
2. Cleanup and regrade the natural soil area to drain off to the side (I will use the bucket to create a ditch/swale). I will also add stone to this at a later date, but I have to make due with what's there right now.
3. Touchup/regrade the slope near the house.
4. Mow the vegtation and touchup/regrade the natural soil that will be the yard areas surrounding the house.

I can only reasonably afford two implements. I am buying a rotary cutter, and would like to get either a box blade or landplane to take care of these initial tasks, as well as future tasks. I know the ideal answer would be to get both, or to get a harley rake, but as I said we are on a tight budget. I have no experience with either a boxblade or landplane, but I have more time than money and I'm a pretty quick learner.

I'll attach pictures. Please give me your best and honest advice, thanks.

EDIT: I will be waiting to do the work till we either have a couple weeks with no rain, or till April when it warms up enough to be dry in a few days.
Looking at your road photos, I’m going to add some thoughts about fixing the initial situation. My other posts about maintenance are still what I would recommend. I had the same situation with my 1500’ of road 18 years ago when I bought the place. I initially hired a talented guy with a road grader who cut ditches and pulled the material to form an elevated crowned roadbed. An he did it without adding material. He was talented enough as an operator to get all the material needed from the ditches he built. Then I had it graveled and I worked the gravel to spread it with my tractor and blade. That 6 hours that I paid the grader operator and equipment for was the best decision I could have made. Since then I’ve maintained it myself, and once or twice had new gravel added to some spots.
 
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KKBL

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I have a land plane, box blade, landscape rake and back blade to maintain a 1/2 mile private road.
Box blade with scarifiers to fix bad pot holes and low spots first.
Land plane with scarifiers does a fantastic job to finish leveling and smooth the long runs. Would not be useful for small areas or short driveways.
Landscape rake is the last step to dress top and remove any large stones.
Back blade is used infrequently. Can be angled to cut drainage ditches and swales.
Paid about $2200 for them, some new - some lightly used, but have used them 20+ years.
 
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B737

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^^^ This ^^^

I can't believe the amount of ppl in here suggesting a scraper blade for a driveway, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

If you have potholes, especially deep compacted ones, the scraper blade is not going to do squat besides pass new material over the pothole, not repair it.

If you don't know how to use a box blade to put a down a crown or scrape out a swale, don't blame the box blade. To me, a scraper blade is a half-assed approach, esp a light one that is just going to bounce along the top, additionally, lacks scarifiers for repair.

Box blade + landscape rake, will do everything needed to properly tackle any driveway, from maintenance to repair. Including crown, swales, rough and fine grade.
 

jyoutz

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^^^ This ^^^

I can't believe the amount of ppl in here suggesting a scraper blade for a driveway, that's the most ridiculous thing I've ever read.

If you have potholes, especially deep compacted ones, the scraper blade is not going to do squat besides pass new material over the pothole, not repair it.

If you don't know how to use a box blade to put a down a crown or scrape out a swale, don't blame the box blade. To me, a scraper blade is a half-assed approach, esp a light one that is just going to bounce along the top, additionally, lacks scarifiers for repair.

Box blade + landscape rake, will do everything needed to properly tackle any driveway, from maintenance to repair. Including crown, swales, rough and fine grade.
Try cutting a ditch along the road with a box blade. Or reaching into the ditch to pull gravel back to the road. Light blades are worthless; they must be heavy to be useful.
 

NCL4701

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Try cutting a ditch along the road with a box blade. Or reaching into the ditch to pull gravel back to the road. Light blades are worthless; they must be heavy to be useful.
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Done…

Nothing against the back blade or grading scraper. However the idea that a box blade isn’t capable of moving material sideways, crowning, ditching, creating swales… perform actual grading; that idea is just wrong.

If you prefer a back blade, use a back blade. I really don’t care what anyone uses and I am not selling boxblades so I don’t care if anyone ever buys one again. However, the OP asked for information and in regard to what he can do with a box blade he was given incorrect information. Whether that was because the folks that posted the incorrect information don’t have experience with the implement and are parroting bad info they’ve heard or they do have experience that was disappointing because they didn’t know how to get it to do more than move material in a straight line; don’t know, doesn’t really matter.

I’m not planning on getting in some sort of internet slap fight about this, but no one anywhere, regardless of whatever “evidence” or “authority”, is ever going to convince me that the things I have already done and continue to do with an implement can’t be done with that implement. That would be entirely non-sensical on my part.

From the standpoint of those reading this, there’s a judgment of whether I’m full of crap and actually used a backblade, contractor, photos of someone else’s road. Maybe I’m an 10 year old in Vanuatu who has never seen a boxblade; I’m just bored and like stirring up old dudes with tractors. That‘s the dicey part of a forum like this. Y’all have to decide if what I post is worthwhile.

Regardless what you decide, none of you are going to convince me I can’t do stuff I’ve already done.
 
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