How not to abuse your HST? Bx23S

[Mr Winichester]

So I am new to tractors, just got a bx23s. auto trans, and 4WD.

I am wondering about what type of use or should I say improper use may damage or put a lot of wear on the transmission, especially when using the front bucket and pushing into piles, and actions like that where you are pushing up against something and using the forward motion of the tractor.

I have no Idea what type of automatic clutch there is in the drive train, and if it is designed to slip with out damage?

I would like some advice on how much pushing you can do with a machine like this when you are pushing up against a pile and using the forward force to help dig the bucket in. With out doing any damage to the machine.

And also if it is recommended or not to use the 4wd for actions like this even if the ground is not slippery.

Thanks

 

[armylifer]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

First of all, the transmission on your machine is a hydrostatic drive 2 gear range transmission, not an automatic transmission. There is no clutch. It is okay to slip it a little when working it. There will not be any damage resulting from a little slip. The thing to remember though is that almost all work should be done in low range. Pushing up against piles of material in high range will result in a loss of working power and it MAY damage the hydrostatic drive from over-heating the transmission. You should be okay if you work it in low gear range though.

 

[85Hokie]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

I am wondering about what type of use or should I say improper use may damage or put a lot of wear on the transmission, especially when using the front bucket and pushing into piles, and actions like that where you are pushing up against something and using the forward motion of the tractor.

If/when digging into a "pile" or moving something heavy on the FEL - use L range.....H range WILL stall the engine, even to the point of cutting it off!

I have no Idea what type of automatic clutch there is in the drive train, and if it is designed to slip with out damage?

There is no automatic clutch.....rather - no clutch at all (drive train)

I would like some advice on how much pushing you can do with a machine like this when you are pushing up against a pile and using the forward force to help dig the bucket in. With out doing any damage to the machine.

When you push into the pile, you will "hear" a sound of engine "lessening" or moaning - rpm's will drop. Also the hydraulics are being pushed to a limit of "overload" - while there is protection for this ( a high pressure valve will open and relieve pressure) it is not something you want to do all of the time.

And also if it is recommended or not to use the 4wd for actions like this even if the ground is not slippery.

IF you need to gain more traction into the pile, you can use 4wd - but it might not be necessary to do so. Moving into the pile nice and slow might not get the bucket into the load enough - placing in 4wd on a surface that will not give, is not something you want to do a lot either. The better choice might be to run into the pile with a little more force - this might sound a little crazy, but in L range, run into the pile and let off the forward peddle, this will allow the bucket to get a full scoop. If in gravel, you might have to lift and BACK up at the same time to pick the load up!
You will start to learn the sounds of the machine as you use it, the bypass valve will kick in when you ask too much of the hydraulics - it is a high pitched wine, and the wheels (2wd) will spin if you try to do too much pushing. In 4wd - the wheels will probably not spin - once again the engine will cut back as the pressure is too much. 4WD should only be used if you have a situation that allows some slippage......snow, ice, gravel, dirt ...etc

 

[armylifer]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

Everything 85Hokie said, but add rear ballast if working a loaded FEL.

 

[85Hokie]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

Everything 85Hokie said, but add rear ballast if working a loaded FEL.

Army - he should have that backhoe on the BX23s (unless he takes it off) - that is about 700 lbs of ballast and you are right - makes a hellva difference!

 

[armylifer]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

SNAP! I forgot about that.

 

[jmf78]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

Does the same apply to pushing snow? Plow in Low range?

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[twomany]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

Biggest thing with a Hydrostatic drive is to use the "go" pedal for ground speed control.
There is no additional "power" available by pressing the speed control further than the actual ground speed would suggest. In fact, the Hydrostatic drive unit builds unacceptable pressures when the pedal position and ground speed (think flow rates) are mismatched.

So, Keep the ENGINE revs up, and the speed pedal positioned to match the SPEED you wish to engage the load.

Pulling or pushing with the tractor, and trying to add force with the speed control is a fools mission.

The pedal acts as an infinitely variable speed transmission with it's greatest force at the minimum speed.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

As you have been informed of, you don't have a Automatic Transmission.
I changed your title to "How not to abuse your HST?".

The simple answer is change your Hydro fluid and filters per schedule, and Use good quality fluids.

Use the tractor like a tractor and not a bulldozer and you'll be fine.

 

[conropl]

All excellent points above.
Regarding 2WD vs. 4WD: If you are working on a hill, you may want to be in 4WD going up or down because if the weight lifts the back wheels enough to lose traction, then in 2WD you have no breaks... and potentially a run away tractor. Your tractor only has breaks on the rear tires; and if your drive system is only engaged with the rear tires, then it can get scary quick when they lift up (drop you load to the ground quickly).

So what was said about 2WD in the posts above is true, but you should also factor in safety also... and in the case I describe above, safety trumps other considerations.

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[rjcorazza]

All good information... adding my 2 cents, you may want to watch some YouTube videos on loader use to get off to a good start on best techniques. Curling the bucket slightly before the end of pushing goes a long way.


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[D2Cat]

Rjcorazza's suggestion will help you understand how to efficiently use your tractor.

Here are some basic ideas in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWrmOXy16Y4

 

[captmikem]

Re: How not to abuse your automatic trans? Bx23S

Biggest thing with a Hydrostatic drive is to use the "go" pedal for ground speed control.
There is no additional "power" available by pressing the speed control further than the actual ground speed would suggest. In fact, the Hydrostatic drive unit builds unacceptable pressures when the pedal position and ground speed (think flow rates) are mismatched.

So, Keep the ENGINE revs up, and the speed pedal positioned to match the SPEED you wish to engage the load.

Pulling or pushing with the tractor, and trying to add force with the speed control is a fools mission.

The pedal acts as an infinitely variable speed transmission with it's greatest force at the minimum speed.

This is excellent advice, but I would like to add a bit here;

Most people new to HST (including myself a bit ago) without thinking tend to use the pedal as an accelerator, in fact when you have no load on level ground it appears to act as one.

It came to me one day while moving my tractor on a road at a fast speed in high gear and I came to a small hill, the tractor slowed down and I pushed down on the pedal and the tractor actually slowed down more! I thought something is wrong here... Well, of course it slowed down, the pedal is like a gear shift, as the load increases and the rpms drop you want to shift to a LOWER gear so you ease up on the pedal, just the opposite of what the muscle memory in your foot does when you drive a car. It is like coming to a grade in your car and the car slows down and you shift from 4th to 5th... Not going to work out well..

Since reaching this epiphany it has made my tractor operating MUCH better, especially when doing as the OP asks, pushing into a load, the tractor starts to load up you ease up on the pedal and get more power to the wheels.
Simple I know, but it took a bit for me to learn this.

I hopes this helps folks new to HST, took me longer than I would like to say to learn it.

M

 

[K.P.]

I'm sure you already know this. But allow the tractor and fluids to warm up according to the manual before you put load on the tractor.

 

[Bremerland]

Hydrostatic transmission depends on the pressurizing pump and the hydraulic motor - Until now I haven't dismantled my L4100HST - but the working principles of the system are understood as follows: The engine drives the pressure generator (axial piston pump with varying angles, flow control), the pressure consumer (constant flow motor) is activated/controlled by the accelerator pedal. Depending on the flow the pump angle is automatically adjusted by the hydraulic system. Another regulator is the engine speed lever. Low revs, flow low, high pump angle - works fine for low loads. High power demand (running the FEL shovel into the dung heap) may cause the system to stall, engine will stop. This will happen if a higher transmission gear is chosen, more power will occur (same engine revs) in the lower gear. Even near low idle the engine will not stall if the tires slide on the ground. Having loaded your tilting trailer with 5 tons (metric) of horse poo you intend to bring away: For picking up speed on the road you have to rev the engine (warmed up already) to high idle, take the H-gear and get underway. Being held by the heavy load you have to put the accelerator pedal slowly down, otherwise the engine could stall. In the end tractor and trailer will run at the design speed, as the axial pump takes up and generates the full delivery of pressure and flow at full angle.

Abuse of HST might be high revs just after starting, use of deteriorated oil, neglect of maintenance and frequent engine stalls (causing decay of the engine oil by to much soot of badly burnt fuel).

So far a little comment from germany from a happy Kubota user. I think I owe you an apology for my eventually poor language.

A healthy and wealthy fresh year 2018 to all of you
Michael

 

[Mr Winichester]

Thanks everyone for that info.

So I think that what I learned here that I was unaware of is that the "go pedal"
is not really like an accelerator pedal but really like a gearshift pedal.

"The pedal acts as an infinitely variable speed transmission with it's greatest force at the minimum speed."

So other that using speed to maybe build some momentum to drive into the pile, once you are actually up against the pile pressing less on the pedal is going to give you more pushing power.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

once you are actually up against the pile pressing less on the pedal is going to give you more pushing power.

Yep you got it!

 

[Szmytty]

OK, so not trying to hijack this thread, but I am also new to and HST and have similar question.

I find the brake pedal to be in a terribly awkward position. I feel like I am high stepping just to get on top of it. So more time than not, I find myself using the brake very little. I find the HST slows down pretty well, just by not putting any pressure on either pedal. However, am I going to trash my HST if I use my forward and backward if I am creeping in the opposite direction?

Now just to be clear, I am not going around doing roll backs on my tractor!

 

[85Hokie]

OK, so not trying to hijack this thread, but I am also new to and HST and have similar question.

I find the brake pedal to be in a terribly awkward position. I feel like I am high stepping just to get on top of it. So more time than not, I find myself using the brake very little. I find the HST slows down pretty well, just by not putting any pressure on either pedal. However, am I going to trash my HST if I use my forward and backward if I am creeping in the opposite direction?

Now just to be clear, I am not going around doing roll backs on my tractor!

Actually what you describe is quite normal - We all do that to a certain degree.

While the brake pedal is somewhat higher than useful - that too can be "fixed"

If you reverse a little too fast.....you'll know about it long before you hurt the tractor! You'll be thrown out of your tractor or pushed firmly BACK into your seat!

HST is the perfect brake mechanism .....especially when in 4wd going downhill

 

[dalola]

Another thing to keep in mind with these little SCUT's, you will most likely loose traction long before any damage would happen to the HST. These are pretty robust machines, considering their limited work capabilities due to weight & traction.

Aside from common-sense operating, I wouldn't worry too much about it. Performing timely & proper maintenance is by far your best friend here.