How much rear ballast is enough for BX with FEL?

[CountryBumkin]

I have BX2370 with FEL.
I have a rear ballast box now, but I'm switching to a setup in the rear that uses "suitcase weights".

How many weights should I have on the rear when using the loader? The manual doesn't specify a max or recommended weight for the rear.

The loader is rated to pick up between 518 lbs to 750 lbs (depending on location and lift height).

Would 252 lbs of weight (6 weights) on the rear be enough to offset picking up a full load with the FEL? I don't want to fill the tires since this tractor doubles as a mower when it's stripped down.

 

[85Hokie]

I have BX2370 with FEL.
I have a rear ballast box now, but I'm switching to a setup in the rear that uses "suitcase weights".

How many weights should I have on the rear when using the loader? The manual doesn't specify a max or recommended weight for the rear.

The loader is rated to pick up between 518 lbs to 750 lbs (depending on location and lift height).

Would 252 lbs of weight (6 weights) on the rear be enough to offset picking up a full load with the FEL? I don't want to fill the tires since this tractor doubles as a mower when it's stripped down.

CB,

I would still fill the tires......unless your cutting soggy soil, turfs will not hurt the grass nor will R4's.........I have the same machine and the 70 plus pounds per tire are not a lot when it comes to pressure on grass, but cutting sides - it helps quite a bit.

as for the ballast box - 252 aint enough......500-600 is better, trust me - with a 650 pound backhoe on the back of mine - I still can get tippsy, A full scoop of dirt/gravel/whatever plays hell on the rear end grip! A three point ballast box is easy to make - and /or easy to buy

 

[ShaunRH]

How much math do you like to do?

There are some assumptions to make to get you in the ballpark if you want to try to counter the full weight exactly.

If you assume that the tractor is 'balanced' (which it isn't but it's close enough for ballpark) then you can take the measurement from the center of the front hub to the middle point of the bucket when it's fully rolled back (simulating a full bucket).

Then take the measurement from the center of the rear hub (both measurements are taken parallel to the ground) to the center of your weight set.

The ratio of those two measurements is what we'll call your weight balance ratio. For example:

Front Hub to bucket = 30" (Not a real number, just for example)
Rear Hub to weight = 20"

This is a 3:2 ratio. This means that if you have 750lbs at that front point, you'd need 3/2 x 750 (aka 1125lbs) to exactly counter it.

With that in writing, it's not necessary to exactly counter the loaded loader. Reality is that far less will counter it as the tractor has a significant stability to start with and you only need to overcome enough to counter any instability the additional weight introduces. With that Heavy Hitch you are looking at getting. I'd probably start with about 200ish pounds and only increase it if you feel the tractor getting squirrely or losing traction with a fully loaded bucket.

 

[bcp]

From BX2360 manuals:

Loader manual recommends a maximum of 420 pounds on the rear as loader ballast.

Tractor manual recommends a maximum of 275 pounds on the front as rear implement ballast.

Bruce

 

[RCW]

I often carry a 350 lb box blade on BX2360 when not mowing.

Hangs back there a ways....

Seems pretty decent, and tires are loaded, too.

 

[skeets]

I filled the tires on my little beasty and 150 pounds of wheel weights and of course my fat old arse,, so theres almost 500.. no problems

 

[CountryBumkin]

From BX2360 manuals:

Loader manual recommends a maximum of 420 pounds on the rear as loader ballast.

Tractor manual recommends a maximum of 275 pounds on the front as rear implement ballast.

Bruce

That's good to know. I couldn't find that info in the BX2370 manual. My manual says "The amount of rear ballast should be matched to the job and ballast should be removed when it is not needed". Not vey helpful.

I have a 3-point mounted ballast box (Kubota model) and currently have put in eight 40LB bags of salt pellets "ballast" (320 LBS). That's all that will fit - so I would/should need to find some other ballast material to get to 420LBS if I use this method.

However, I now have a rear mounted "Heavy Hitch" that can take eight 42LB suitcase weights (so that's only 336 LBS). I'd rather use the Heavy Hitch with ballast so I can also attach my "sleeve mounted" plow or rake.

I guess if I were to add ballast to the tires and use the eight suitcase weights, that would get me to a total rear ballast of 336 + 70 (tires) = 406.

EDIT: I misread manual. Tire ballast is 99LBS per wheel (not 35 (Kg)). There are also bolt on wheel weights available from Kubota - which I think are 50LBS each. This would give me 336 +100 = 436 LBS.

 

[CountryBumkin]

If you assume that the tractor is 'balanced' (which it isn't but it's close enough for ballpark) .....

With that Heavy Hitch you are looking at getting. I'd probably start with about 200ish pounds and only increase it if you feel the tractor getting squirrely or losing traction with a fully loaded bucket.

Thanks Shuan. My concern, and the reason I'm asking here, is because the tractor isn't balanced (or at least I don't believe it is, and the manual doesn't say how the weight is distributed front to back.

I don't want to wait for the tractor to get squirrely - but that is perhaps the only way to know for sure. So I will add the maximum number of rear weights - then get the tire weights (or fill tires) if it feels squirrely.

 

[ShaunRH]

Well, squirrely isn't a scientific term. It's relative to your peace of mind...

I've heard of L series drivers take their unit's over a 20° slope angle. I get anywhere near that with my L series, filled rears, everything low and it starts to lift a tire so that's squirrely to me.

{The above graphic lies a bit, the balance point on the front axle is not at the frame sides but in the center of the axle as that is where the pivot point is located!}

I gave you the math version but I'm actually advocating the trial version of figuring it out.

I'm advocating loading up the bucket with about 200-250# on the back and see how it drives on your property. If you're losing traction on solid level ground or it tilts forward smacking the bucket bottom during a sudden stop, clearly you need more weight. If it wants to tail walk on you on a gentle slope, you still need more weight.

With filled tires, full bucket (held almost scraping the ground) and my 60" mower on the back for weight, my fronts start to slip on a slope before my rears do which tells me I've got enough weight in the back, it never tilts forward at all on level ground even with a full bucket and a sudden stop.

 

[cerlawson]

Shaun: I rough measured the distances from front axle to bucket load and did same to rear axle on my BX. They are roughly the same, depending on the bucket situation. However, that center of gravity to front axle distance times tractor weight also needs to be in the equation. Addition these lever arms times their weights is on one side and dividing that number by the distance front axle to center of bucket load would be the maximum load that could be carried before rear tires come off the ground. I've run into this situation trying to pull stump, etc. Not so safe., especially on a side hill.

 

[davesl708]

My BX2200's Kubota ballast box says do not exceed 300lbs.

 

[CountryBumkin]

My BX2200's Kubota ballast box says do not exceed 300lbs.

After I read your post, I went back into my 2370 manual, and found the section for rear ballast (under the title "Implement as Counter Weight"), it says for the Ballast Box, Box Blade, Rear Blade, or Rotary Tiller, "Approx. weight is 420 lbs.".

It also says "The amount of rear ballast will depend on the application".

I like Shaun's suggestion to load the bucket, lift it a few inches off the ground, then drive along and hit brakes and see if the bucket hits the ground (back end comes up).

 

[ShaunRH]

Shaun: I rough measured the distances from front axle to bucket load and did same to rear axle on my BX. They are roughly the same, depending on the bucket situation. However, that center of gravity to front axle distance times tractor weight also needs to be in the equation. Addition these lever arms times their weights is on one side and dividing that number by the distance front axle to center of bucket load would be the maximum load that could be carried before rear tires come off the ground. I've run into this situation trying to pull stump, etc. Not so safe., especially on a side hill.

You are correct sir. I was being extremely generic (call it playing fast and loose) with the math to both keep it simple and realizing it's only a ballpark figure.

As the illustration shows, most tractors are designed with the CG about 2/3rds of the way between the axles, biased to the rear. In a forward tilt condition, the front axle is the stability pivot point so the entire weight of the tractor from the front axle back plus any ballast or implement effects the equation. It's also a negative (bias towards the tilt) on all weight from the front axle forward. Thus all part of the equation.

I actually was starting to study to be an Aeronautical Engineer and CG is everything to an aircraft. I gave it up because way back when the defense industry collapsed and AE's were a dime a dozen, was probably not the best time to become one. However, even in my limited exposure, I was doing CG calcs on model aircraft and I'm surprised that tractors aren't much different. In some ways more complex, in some ways easier.

I had no desire to dust off those equations and try to stimulate the actual neurons needed to be precise. Please forgive my laziness!

 

[Downeaster]

My BX2200's Kubota ballast box says do not exceed 300lbs.

My ballast box on mine says to add 300 lbs for a BX and 600 for larger tractors.

 

[Dave Ogren]

I went to unload a Woodland Mills #46 chipper from the back of a semi trailer with my BX23S with forks on and the backhoe off and a 3PH on and 2 guys had to jump on the rear (about 350 of 370 pounds) to help me do it. Doing almost anything with the FEL if it is more than 250 pounds needs weight in the rear.

 

[JimDeL]

I have BX2370 with FEL.
I have a rear ballast box now, but I'm switching to a setup in the rear that uses "suitcase weights".

How many weights should I have on the rear when using the loader? The manual doesn't specify a max or recommended weight for the rear.

The loader is rated to pick up between 518 lbs to 750 lbs (depending on location and lift height).

Would 252 lbs of weight (6 weights) on the rear be enough to offset picking up a full load with the FEL? I don't want to fill the tires since this tractor doubles as a mower when it's stripped down.

The Kubota Ballast Box is labeled "Add 200 Pounds for BX Series." I have 200 pounds of gravel in mine, and have had no traction problems when lifting/hauling topsoil, etc.

 

[Henro]

Being a simplistic guy, what I would do is consider the front axle as the pivot point of the seesaw, and simply figure that without a load in the bucket, the tractor is stable. So I would put that as my starting point, and figure the initial condition provided a safety factor.

Then I would make measurements. First to the center of the loader bucket from the center of the front axle, and next to the point I was going to put the added weight.

Since it is a seesaw, and the distance to the rear point where the added weight is added is likely greater than the distance to the center of the front axle, from the bucket, the amount of weight needed to counter the seesaw effect would be less than the amount of weight the bucket was lifting.

Simple calculation. If the distance was double between the two measurements the minimum amount of ballast would be half of the weight being lifted.

Simple proportion calculation. More is better in my mind though...just adds a little more safety factor.

 

[DustyRusty]

My BX2200's Kubota ballast box says do not exceed 300lbs.

My ballast box is out of warranty and has been for almost 20 years. I put 600 pounds of lead into it almost 20 years ago, and never took a pound out of it. It hangs on the rear of my current BX23S with no problem, and for a decade and a half, it hung on the BX22 whenever the backhoe was off the tractor. Both tractors also had and have liquid ballast installed in them.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

the vast majority of my loader work is w/ grapple moving trees I fel for fire wood over very uneven ground. I skid long lengths of trees (10 - 30'+ lengths ) to a flat deck trailer, lift onto trailer then tow to my wood processor.

My ballast is a logging winch which is a little more than 1/3rd of my loaders max. capacity which I am at often.

Never had a problem after thousands of hours with rear wheels lifting or feeling tippy.

just my experience FWIW

 

[GreensvilleJay]

1st forget about filling tires with anything as you mow your lawn... ANY drop of calcium comes out and you WILL be buying new rims,only a matter of time. 6 out of 8 of my $$$ rims rotted due to calcium. Plus you do NOT want ANY extra weight on a tractor while cutting the grass ( which YOU do...)

2nd, consider buying a 'carryall' ,less than $200, toss a skid on top, then add weight onto the skid. TEST what you feel is the max bucket load, then add or subtract weight to/from the skid. NOW you KNOW what weight you need. You can have 2 or 3 'preset skids' for different jobs. That will save time and your back instead of finding rocks, sand bags, etc . to create a weight box in the future. Adjusting 200-500 # of weight might be OK once, maybe twice...but it ain't fun afte rthat !

The beauty of the 3ph carryall/skid of weight is that you CAN easily put on the 3ph carryall, backup to the 'skid of weight' and GO do the job. When done, unload the skid and go to the next job.
I made my 1st carryall 25 years ago, still use it for a LOT of oddball jobs.
Do whatever it takes to make YOUR life easier.