Guns...Times have changed...

Joisey

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🤔 Overthrow the government? Sounds like you’ve been watching too many movies. The government has heavy armory, aircraft, bombs, nukes, etc… And you are going to use small arms?
Because there was a gun in most every home in the US made Japan think better of invading the US. Japan had heavy armor, aircraft, but no nukes at the time. I believe the quote was along the lines of " a gun behind every blade of grass".

NEVER underestimate the value of a skilled marksman (or sniper) that knows the lay of the land when the enemy does not.
 
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Joisey

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Times have changed. 47 years ago, I bought a deer rifle, which I still have. Took it to a department store to buy a scope and have it installed.

Walked through the mall with my rifle in hand. Did not even get a second look.

Could you imagine if you did that today?
I was visiting my friend in Charleston WV two years ago. He was driving around to show me the sights. Not 3 blocks from the Capital building were three adult men, two with bolt action rifles and one with a AR type rifle, walking down the street. No one gave them a second look. In NJ they would have been in jail before they walked the length of one block.
 

radas

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...
Mass shootings have their roots in mental instability, that is the issue that needs to be addressed.
Exactly why more due diligence is required to purchase a firearm. Clearing a psych eval as a condition of purchase and stricter background screening are musts. Everyone wants to "address mental health" but then discredit the medications prescribed as well as the methods (in this thread multiple times). Add in supporting a party that protects their 2nd amendment rights while gutting the medicaid system that supports individuals with substance abuse and mental health needs while simultaneously pointing the finger at mental health everytime a terrorist attack using easily acquired legal firearms occur. The hypocrisy is painful.
 
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ayak

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I was visiting my friend in Charleston WV two years ago. He was driving around to show me the sights. Not 3 blocks from the Capital building were three adult men, two with bolt action rifles and one with a AR type rifle, walking down the street. No one gave them a second look. In NJ they would have been in jail before they walked the length of one block.
Well, it was deer season after all…🤣
 
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Flintknapper

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Exactly why more due diligence is required to purchase a firearm. Clearing a psych eval as a condition of purchase and stricter background screening are musts. Everyone wants to "address mental health" but then discredit the medications prescribed as well as the methods (in this thread multiple times). Add in supporting a party that protects their 2nd amendment rights while gutting the medicaid system that supports individuals with substance abuse and mental health needs while simultaneously pointing the finger at mental health everytime a terrorist attack using easily acquired legal firearms occur. The hypocrisy is painful.
Really.....an actual Psychological Evaluation as condition for purchase! And should these be followed up...say monthly...just in case something has changed?

Have you ever read a 4473 form? Its already pretty inclusive.


With respect to prescription 'meds' there is no shortage of over prescribing. And what in the hell is going on with our youth (the age of the Uvalde shooter) that 17% (likely higher than that) are on psychotropic meds? And doesn't even include the illegal drugs many take.


Where is the cut off point (medicaid) for you? Do we just continue to support the ever growing population of the homeless, addicted, mentally ill, etc....and never really get to the root of the problem (cultural and secular changes). We can't legislate morality, responsibility, work ethics, etc.... they must be taught, learned and practiced. Then we'd have a LOT less of the troubles we see.

Never in my 68 years....have I seen such a prevalence of Broken Homes, Dysfunctional Families, Disrespect of fellow man, self importance is the new religion. And the ever increasing idea that pretty much "Everything is OK, its just different". I'm glad I grew up in the time period I did. And though I raised a Daughter through these more modern times....we were careful to raise her right.

More often than not....when you see the misfits and oddballs....there is a reason for it. And THAT is what we should be looking at. Not worrying so much about who is going to be 'offended'.
 
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radas

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Really.....an actual Psychological Evaluation as condition for purchase! And should these be followed up...say monthly...just in case something has changed?

Have you ever read a 4473 form? Its already pretty inclusive.


With respect to prescription 'meds' there is no shortage of over prescribing. And what in the hell is going on with our youth (the age of the Uvalde shooter) that 17% (likely higher than that) are on psychotropic meds? And doesn't even include the illegal drugs many take.


Where is the cut off point (medicaid) for you? Do we just continue to support the ever growing population of the homeless, addicted, mentally ill, etc....and never really get to the root of the problem (cultural and secular changes). We can't legislate morality, responsibility, work ethics, etc.... they must be taught, learned and practiced. Then we'd have a LOT less of the troubles we see.

Never in my 68 years....have I seen such a prevalence of Broken Homes, Dysfunctional Families, Disrespect of fellow man, self importance is the new religion. And the ever increasing idea that pretty much "Everything is OK, its just different". I'm glad I grew up in the time period I did. And though I raised a Daughter through these more modern times....we were careful to raise her right.

More often than not....when you see the misfits and oddballs....there is a reason for it. And THAT is what we should be looking at. Not worrying so much about who is going to be 'offended'.
Yes, an actual psych eval. The 4473, while covering some aspects, is simply a self-identification form. People can easily lie and fly under the radar. Where is the audit of this open loop system?

I never mentioned expanding Medicaid, only the hypocrisy of those who say "guns arent the problem, let's focus on the real issue...mental health" and then like cattle line up at the polls to vote and seemingly worship shitty politicians that vote to defund systems designed to aide and assist those in need. Does it bother you to help those in need in our own country vs. funnelling $4bn a year to Israel, $40bn to Ukraine, billions to companies that don't create jobs in America with liveable wages, etc...? To me, the answer is easy, if the scapegoat for gun violence is mental health (or the new scapegoat...morality), then don't strangle systems that are already in place. Pay teachers more, place emphasis on education. Reform police image and mindset (e.g. community policing - folks have more respect for people they know). Stop voting trash in that chokes a system and then places blame on the beneficiary of that system.

"Never in my 68 years....have I seen such a prevalence of Broken Homes, Dysfunctional Families, Disrespect of fellow man, self importance is the new religion. And the ever increasing idea that pretty much "Everything is OK, its just different". I'm glad I grew up in the time period I did. And though I raised a Daughter through these more modern times....we were careful to raise her right."

The internet and social media changed the world, for better or worse. Of course nobody in your generation or prior has seen anything like it, or it's impacts. The impacts of what we consume has also not been fully grasped. Who knows what microplastics or engineered foods do to our mind and bodies. Times change and every generation shakes their fist at the next for being so different. Regarding "everything is ok, just different", I don't always agree with everything I see, hear, or read, but it is easy to change perspective. Does this thing have any impact on you? If not, move on. I agree that my generation and the ones after mine have trouble distinguishing disagreement with discrimination - although many generations before mine have also gotten sucked into this culture of instant gratification and getting offended and pulling the andon every chance they get too (mask mandates being a prime example). I'm raising a son myself, also going to raise him carefully, but make sure he doesn't have his blinders on when it comes time to leave the house.

Those misfits and oddballs have always been there, generation after generation. Focusing in on "loners" isn't the only solution to this problem. Making sure people who have the motive having a hard time acquiring the means is equally, if not more important.
 
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Nicfin36

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Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”

I like to refer to that quote a good bit lately. We have become spoiled, and as a result, our values and sense of right and wrong have been skewed. Work ethics are a thing of the past. Kids today, grow up physically, but remain kids mentally. I would guess many of us here are in our 40s and up, and most of us have probably worked numerous jobs from childhood to adult. I know of very few teens that even work now. I know 20-something year olds that have never used a lawn mower or changed a tire. They unabashedly tell you they don't know how and that is for someone qualified to do, not them. Our decadence is part of our downfall. Part of it, not all of it.
 
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jkrubi12

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Yes, an actual psych eval. The 4473, while covering some aspects, is simply a self-identification form. People can easily lie and fly under the radar. Where is the audit of this open loop system?

I never mentioned expanding Medicaid, only the hypocrisy of those who say "guns arent the problem, let's focus on the real issue...mental health" and then like cattle line up at the polls to vote and seemingly worship shitty politicians that vote to defund systems designed to aide and assist those in need. Does it bother you to help those in need in our own country vs. funnelling $4bn a year to Israel, $40bn to Ukraine, billions to companies that don't create jobs in America with liveable wages, etc...? To me, the answer is easy, if the scapegoat for gun violence is mental health (or the new scapegoat...morality), then don't strangle systems that are already in place. Pay teachers more, place emphasis on education. Reform police image and mindset (e.g. community policing - folks have more respect for people they know). Stop voting trash in that chokes a system and then places blame on the beneficiary of that system.

"Never in my 68 years....have I seen such a prevalence of Broken Homes, Dysfunctional Families, Disrespect of fellow man, self importance is the new religion. And the ever increasing idea that pretty much "Everything is OK, its just different". I'm glad I grew up in the time period I did. And though I raised a Daughter through these more modern times....we were careful to raise her right."

The internet and social media changed the world, for better or worse. Of course nobody in your generation or prior has seen anything like it, or it's impacts. The impacts of what we consume has also not been fully grasped. Who knows what microplastics or engineered foods do to our mind and bodies. Times change and every generation shakes their fist at the next for being so different. Regarding "everything is ok, just different", I don't always agree with everything I see, hear, or read, but it is easy to change perspective. Does this thing have any impact on you? If not, move on. I agree that my generation and the ones after mine have trouble distinguishing disagreement with discrimination - although many generations before mine have also gotten sucked into this culture of instant gratification and getting offended and pulling the andon every chance they get too (mask mandates being a prime example). I'm raising a son myself, also going to raise him carefully, but make sure he doesn't have his blinders on when it comes time to leave the house.

Those misfits and oddballs have always been there, generation after generation. Focusing in on "loners" isn't the only solution to this problem. Making sure people who have the motive having a hard time acquiring the means is equally, if not more important.
Well said (y)
 
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Bmyers

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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
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“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
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rc51stierhoff

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Thanks for reminding us of our heritage with those great quotes BMyers…reminds me nothing is free and if you look at he major conflicts prior to our politicized losing streak there was one common thread…it was about liberating / freeing people from those who have done none other than put their common sense laws into place (you can see it like clockwork if you read the hole story) However the folks calling the shots and preying on others emotions right now are not concerned about Liberty or safety…if they were they could see where it’s been tried previously and currently in other places (if it has worked it would be interesting if there were a couple examples of success) many of which are right here at home. It’s very disingenuous This is simply a method to achieve progress on the outcome they are angling for, and they know they can hide behind the emotions of caring and impressionable people…that’s why they are predators. I did not hear any of the same predators/do gooders getting upset during the riots the past few years or the Daily struggles in the big cities, etc. however for some strange reason we ran guns over the border and that was such good policy we now ship them overseas with cash so they can buy ammo. If that’s the solution abroad, maybe we should trying passing it out at home. I did not hear too many grabbers piping up about all the money we borrow from one country to pay for arms and cash we been shipping to another country…wonder where that outrage is?
 
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motionclone

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Yes, an actual psych eval. The 4473, while covering some aspects, is simply a self-identification form. People can easily lie and fly under the radar. Where is the audit of this open loop system?

I never mentioned expanding Medicaid, only the hypocrisy of those who say "guns arent the problem, let's focus on the real issue...mental health" and then like cattle line up at the polls to vote and seemingly worship shitty politicians that vote to defund systems designed to aide and assist those in need. Does it bother you to help those in need in our own country vs. funnelling $4bn a year to Israel, $40bn to Ukraine, billions to companies that don't create jobs in America with liveable wages, etc...? To me, the answer is easy, if the scapegoat for gun violence is mental health (or the new scapegoat...morality), then don't strangle systems that are already in place. Pay teachers more, place emphasis on education. Reform police image and mindset (e.g. community policing - folks have more respect for people they know). Stop voting trash in that chokes a system and then places blame on the beneficiary of that system.

"Never in my 68 years....have I seen such a prevalence of Broken Homes, Dysfunctional Families, Disrespect of fellow man, self importance is the new religion. And the ever increasing idea that pretty much "Everything is OK, its just different". I'm glad I grew up in the time period I did. And though I raised a Daughter through these more modern times....we were careful to raise her right."

The internet and social media changed the world, for better or worse. Of course nobody in your generation or prior has seen anything like it, or it's impacts. The impacts of what we consume has also not been fully grasped. Who knows what microplastics or engineered foods do to our mind and bodies. Times change and every generation shakes their fist at the next for being so different. Regarding "everything is ok, just different", I don't always agree with everything I see, hear, or read, but it is easy to change perspective. Does this thing have any impact on you? If not, move on. I agree that my generation and the ones after mine have trouble distinguishing disagreement with discrimination - although many generations before mine have also gotten sucked into this culture of instant gratification and getting offended and pulling the andon every chance they get too (mask mandates being a prime example). I'm raising a son myself, also going to raise him carefully, but make sure he doesn't have his blinders on when it comes time to leave the house.

Those misfits and oddballs have always been there, generation after generation. Focusing in on "loners" isn't the only solution to this problem. Making sure people who have the motive having a hard time acquiring the means is equally, if not more important.
A psych eval from the same people that USED to say a man identifying as something besides a man was a mental illness now its socially acceptable so no longer a mental illness?
 
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Flintknapper

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motionclone

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Well said (y)
no its not, its emotionally charged groupthink leading up to the taking away of freedoms and rights of law abiding people.
 
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motionclone

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motionclone Wrote:

"Who writes the psych eval? The same doctors that used to say a man that identifies as something besides a man is crazy but now who says its just fine and that change came from pressure and politics not science like claimed? That who you want us to trust?"


Oh...the answer to that one is easy enough.

Levine of course. ;)

Ill have to one up you unfortunately. This video is REAL Maine Dept of Education Kindergarten curriculum that has since been removed but was shown in classrooms all over the state last year. You want to know why our children are turning to mush? Morals are in decay? They are being trained to be this way. Watch this video.
 

jkrubi12

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no its not, its emotionally charged groupthink leading up to the taking away of freedoms and rights of law abiding people.
Groupthink? To me it's just one person's opinion. It may describe the 'position' of a 'group' but everyone is free to express their opinions here.....Right? :unsure: Thanks for your contribution!:)

I saw no 'emotion' either in the post, I just thought it was well composed, and thus well stated.

As far as what it is '...leading up to....' is pure speculation.
 
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radas

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A psych eval from the same people that USED to say a man identifying as something besides a man was a mental illness now its socially acceptable so no longer a mental illness?
Gender dysphoria is still listed in the DSM-5. Not sure where you're getting your information from or why you have to lie to make a point. Again, time to ask yourself, how and why does this impact you?
 

motionclone

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Gender dysphoria is still listed in the DSM-5. Not sure where you're getting your information from or why you have to lie to make a point. Again, time to ask yourself, how and why does this impact you?
Dr. Rachel Levine, former pediatrician and current Health Secretary. Should HE be allowed to buy a gun under your proposed psych eval process? Obviously a super smart guy but also very obviously has some mental issues. Should that disqualify him from buying a gun though?

 
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