Having an issue with the operation of my FEL. When 3 point hitch is down the FEL moves slowly. When 3 point hitch is in up position, FEL works normally. What could be the cause.
FEL Operation
- Thread starter engineer389
- Start date
I would expect the 3 pt hitch to be fed hydraulic pressure from a power beyond port on the loader valve.
Rear remotes would also be fed from the same PB line.
Keeping in mind that your tractor has an Open Center hydraulic system............ the implication of this is that fluid is constantly flowing at low pressure but maximum volume.
Until something like a hydraulic valve interrupts this constant flow, the pressure does not rise. Move a control lever and now fluid is diverted into a cylinder and in the cylinder the pressure starts to rise until a relief valve bleeds off excess pressure.
If you have rear remote(s) connected to a cylinder, a remote valve not exactly in the neutral position can be bleeding off pressure on the power beyond line.
The 3 pt hitch will have a Feedback rod mounted to one of the lift arms and tied into the 3 pt valve with a rod. If this rod has fallen off or is mal-adjusted again the pressure can be being bleed off while you are trying to use the loader.
You dont say if the loader operating slowly still has its full strength. I would expect not if the above is correct.
The illustration shows the flow from the pump to the loader valve and then to the 3 pt hitch.
I used the manual transmission illustration just because it is simpler in regards to your problem but it is the same for the HST model except the power steering pump feeds the HST in addition.
You need to closely look over the feedback linkage for the 3 pt and its control valve.
These problems usually turn out to be something simple so do not go tearing into valves this creating more issues.
Dave
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
I have the same issue, pull back and hold the 3point lift and at the same time operate the fel lift and it goes right up at idle. Let pressure off the 3point lift and it takes 1500 rpm just to move it upwards then it stops and 2,000 rpm for it to barely go up to full lift. Tried changing the feedback rod adj. And made no difference other then movement of 3point. I have a belly mower on now and was wondering if the belly mower could somehow restrict the position of the 3 point lift so the hydraulic flows through the open circuit. The mower is a pain to take off and right now I need the mower more then the fel. It is pretty difficult for me to get down on my old worn out knees so dropping the mower is a long, tedious and painfull proceedure. Will take it off in the late fall. Any thoughts? Seems to me the fel should work with belly mower on.
Can't remember exactly when fel started to act up.
Thanks
Gruh6
A few details please.
How many lines on your loader valve, 6 or 7?
Have any hydraulic hoses been replaced on your tractor?
Does your tractor have a hydraulic block with a selector lever #2 on it like the one below?
Dave
7 with power beyond.
It's a B6200 with 1640 fel.
Nothing was changed when it went
From it working fine to not having any lifting power. So I changed the hydraulic filter, topped off fluid.
Made no difference. The 3 point was working fine. It's a HST 4wd everything was working so I thought it must be the control valve. I switched it out with a Brand 2 spool regenerative power beyond float valve. But that made no difference. 1500 rpms will lift it 1/3 the way up 2,000 and it slowly makes its way up. When I pull back on the 3point lift all the way it makes a grinding sound but if I hold the control valve in lift position and pull back hard on the 3point lift control handle, it rises right up at idle like it use to. And yes there is a block valve.
The one hose goes to the inlet side of fel control valve and the other comes from the power beyond fitting.
It appears that the block valve handle is halfway. I did not try to move it.
So,,, it is a pretty new fel control valve.
With nice new fittings for about $400 when all said and ,,,,to this point.
Thanks for your help.
Gruh6
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
I think it's the block valve handle. it's bypassing fluid to the 3ph.
When the 3ph valve is in neutral, it is also open spool, so it dumps fluid straight back into the reservoir, so fluid pressure is 0. When the 3ph is in the lift position and the hitch is fully raised and you hear that hissing, the relief valve is operating and pressure is at, say, 1700 or 1800 psi.
The PB of you spool valve kicks the 3ph out of the circuit when the FEL is raised. You have the same results with 2 different spool valve sets, therefore it is highly unlikely to be the PB valve! The only thing left that could involve the 3ph is the hydraulic control block by-pass valve.
I bet the noise from the 3ph relief valve quiets when the FEL is lifting. That would pretty much confirm things.
When the 3ph valve is in neutral, it is also open spool, so it dumps fluid straight back into the reservoir, so fluid pressure is 0. When the 3ph is in the lift position and the hitch is fully raised and you hear that hissing, the relief valve is operating and pressure is at, say, 1700 or 1800 psi.
The PB of you spool valve kicks the 3ph out of the circuit when the FEL is raised. You have the same results with 2 different spool valve sets, therefore it is highly unlikely to be the PB valve! The only thing left that could involve the 3ph is the hydraulic control block by-pass valve.
I bet the noise from the 3ph relief valve quiets when the FEL is lifting. That would pretty much confirm things.
I am with Torch on his diagnosis.
Put the lever on the hydraulic block in the implement position and see what happens.
When you bought the new loader valve did it come with the power beyond sleeve or plug installed or did you do the installation.
Where does the new loader valve's TANK hose go to?
Dave
Put the lever on the hydraulic block in the implement position and see what happens.
When you bought the new loader valve did it come with the power beyond sleeve or plug installed or did you do the installation.
Where does the new loader valve's TANK hose go to?
Dave
Thanks ,, I was going to try adjusting the handle on the hydraulic control block but deided to wait for your thoughts, yes it makes the noise till the FEL control valve is engaged then it goes away.
The brand control valve seems to function properly but I had to buy 4 sae-8 (orb, boss) male to jic -6 male. Weld a 1" piece of steel alongside the oringinal mount and drill 3 holes to mount it. Don't know if this can help anyone since the oringinal valve is no longer avalible. Oh and I had to get the power beyond fitting.
Thankyou again
Will spend some time with the block control valve. Since the handle is in the middle I will try it one way then the other.
Came with valve but I did the install.
Goes back to the top of the hydraulic fill just below the fill cap.
seen it happen before on newer b series with a loader, one of the quick couplers was loose, not coupled all the way.
I feel like it's Christmas and I got,,,,my little pony!!!
TRACTORS BACK!!
Moved the valve and of course the wrong way first. But pointing the handle towards the side, at the power beyond line and that quick it was working. Dang you guys are brilliant!
Honestly,,,Thank You, my next move, tail between my legs, was up on trailer ,check book , and off to orange county.
Also thanks for the quick fit reminder, I did check them and they were all good. Although when I changed the fel valve I had one that I thought I had put together but when I did my double ckeck it was not quite seated.
Thank you again , this has been going on for close to a year, I put it off thinking it might be the pump.
Like I said Christmas morning and there's and orange tractor under the tree. Thanks Santa!!!
Gruh6
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Great news! Congratulations. I bet it got bumped slightly by accident.
I'm only sorry it cost you a new control valve in the process. For future consideration: when troubleshooting, always check the cheapest and easiest things first because a) it doesn't cost much or take much time and b) that's usually where the problem lies anyway.
I'm only sorry it cost you a new control valve in the process. For future consideration: when troubleshooting, always check the cheapest and easiest things first because a) it doesn't cost much or take much time and b) that's usually where the problem lies anyway.
Now it wil not go forward or reverse.
I'm learning, check easy stuff first.
Like take it out of neutral!
One thing though,, the control valve works backwards.
Wonder how the block valve got moved? Vibration?
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Not sure what you mean about the control valve working backwards? Lift and curl switched? Raise and lower? You may just need to rearrange some hoses. If it is a single joystick style valve, it can be converted to swap lift and curl depending on the orientation of the valve block. So depending on which way you have mounted it, converting would retain the regenerative dump and/or float position.
Normally "float" is pushing/lifting the joystick all the way. Regenerative dump is moving the joystick all the way to the right. If you mounted the valve body differently, you may need to convert the joystick mechanism to suit.
Normally "float" is pushing/lifting the joystick all the way. Regenerative dump is moving the joystick all the way to the right. If you mounted the valve body differently, you may need to convert the joystick mechanism to suit.
Don't go running your loader with the controls working backwards.
In my earlier life I did accident investigations for Transport Canada.
One fatal accident involved a farmer who had his loader hoses reversed.
He was stacking large round hay bails for hours mentally adjusting for the reversed action.
Near the end of the day he reverted to the normal loader control movement. A large round bale rolled back from the elevated loader and pinned him in the seat until he suffocated to death.
Dave
In my earlier life I did accident investigations for Transport Canada.
One fatal accident involved a farmer who had his loader hoses reversed.
He was stacking large round hay bails for hours mentally adjusting for the reversed action.
Near the end of the day he reverted to the normal loader control movement. A large round bale rolled back from the elevated loader and pinned him in the seat until he suffocated to death.
Dave
Ok great advice, I will see what it will take to either switch the control handle or reconnect the hoses.
Although the valve is setup for the action the hoses are now connected to.
Pull left lift,, push right drop, push up tilt forward dump , push down or pull back is tilt bucket back.
torch
Well-known member
Equipment
B7100HSD, B2789, B2550, B4672, 48" cultivator, homemade FEL and Cab
Here is a file from Brand that outlines how to invert the joystick operation from "A" (hoses on left, mounting plate on right) to "A1" (hoses on right, mounting plate on left):