Exhaust gas for Garage question.

[Ob1kubota]

Joe seriously now ( we've had some fun on this post ) but, the specific gravity of carbon Monoxide is .9657 and normal O2 at 21% is 1.0 specific gravity, so where do you think the CO will be? Well ..... come back to me ole buddy..... the answer is a "killer" ....

 

[joekimtkd]

"When considering where to place a carbon monoxide detector, keep in mind that although carbon monoxide is roughly the same weight as air (carbon monoxide's specific gravity is 0.9657, as stated by the EPA; the National Resource Council lists the specific gravity of air as one), it may be contained in warm air coming from combustion appliances such as home heating equipment. If this is the case, carbon monoxide will rise with the warmer air."

http://www.homesafe.com/coalert/detect.htm

I got above information from above link. but then, I've always been told Carbon Monoxide is heavier than air... I've asked a bunch of store customers and they all said same thing...

That is why I've install all Co detector in my house all lower section.

Now I have to re-consider where to install the detector.

In my case, not heated, not insulated, detached garage... 24' x 24' pine board built... with cement floor, Where should I install my detector~~~???

Thank you for valuable information~!

Joe.

 

[Ob1kubota]

Joe ....CO readily mixes with air ( 21% oxygen at 1.0 specific gravity) so it can be everywhere. If you really read closely no individual will make a specific statement telling you by Centimeters were to install a monitor.

"In my case, not heated, not insulated, detached garage... 24' x 24' pine board built... with cement floor, Where should I install my detector~~~???"

In your case my best deduction on a location will be the rafters and stealing 120 VAC from the hot leg of a ceiling light fixture with 9 volt DC battery back up to let you know when the power is off so you will know to " not run you tractor in there with the door closed".

Play it again one more time..."In my case, not heated, not insulated, detached garage... 24' x 24' pine board built... with cement floor, Where should I install my detector~~~???"

The Second Law of Thermodynamics will be your culprit, that is a "Killer". This Law states that heat will only flow from a body at a given temperature to another body which is at a lower temperature ( very simple definition if we go any further we'd be taking Entropy which is well beyond your needs here) interesting though... BUT Your Tractor is cold before starting and at the very point you finish pre-heat crank and auto ignition starts CO is at its best! As the physical area builds heat up around your running tractor air + CO will start to rise and because you are walking into your garage ( I hope you don't crawl in there that would be creepy Joe ) you and other humans stand a greater chance of getting posioned. or red faced...

Now think about this.... Next time you read about a sucide and the individual takes its Pet with them when they seal there doom in a close garage with an automobile engine running, if caught in a few hours, generally the pets live! Why, because they have a sense ( in more ways than one ) to get lower and away from heat and as the air rises so wll the CO in greater concentrations in ppm.

In the real physical world we live in this is what happens and (people having more emotional than animal sense ) die from CO in concentrations greater than 5 ppm every day according to Insurance Companies.....

 

[bruceatlam]

Buy two -------

 

[dusty-t]

Yep it seems 0b1 can really get into the Tech Speak. Some times it's pretty hard to keep up with. But please don't stop 0b1 , I am learning some amazing things. And I am amazed also how much of it I understand. I love it. Good luck with that sensor Joe.

 

[Ob1kubota]

Yes Dusty I get carried away sometimes and make my wife read most things I write for clarity and commonsense to a reader. I just don't want anybody to get hurt when enjoying their hobbies and if I can prevent a mistake its a Win Win situation for all. Ole OB1's philosophy... with a touch of "Slycology" makes it fun for all!

 

[dusty-t]

Boy I wish I had one of those clarity and common sense filters. And I think I really like this slycology stuff. Oh and the safety bit too!!

 

[Ob1kubota]

Dusty you get the last word and this was Joe's Post!!!!!! (LOL)

 

[joekimtkd]

Ob1, you've made everyone's jaw drop~
I have'n't talked to retired Physics teacher (one of my friend) yet. but so far I've surprise a lot of peoples about that density of Co.

I'm living in a small country side. Is that the reason that nobody knows about this fact~~~???

Any how, Ob1~ You deserv a NOVEL prize~~~!!!

I will nominate you for one~~~

Joe.

 

[Ob1kubota]

Joe I almost died with CO poisoning in the Coal Mines in the 80s. All the Docs could do for me was put me on oxygen and in warm water to stimulate my brain and vital organs. I learned about CO after the fact...

 

[joekimtkd]

Whew~~~, that was very close, Huh~?!
I almost lost my father by Co a long years ago too.

I did running the tractor about 10 mins today and using laser thermo meter to measure the temperature on that 4 inch drier vent.
Highest point was 33 Celsius and most of spot was less than 15 Celsius.
So, I guess I'm safe to use that, Don't I?

and Ob1, could you check that post about 'Propeller shaft' and tell me what you think...?

Joe.

 

[aquaforce]

Nice exhaust vent.
For a 10 min warm up and a whole lot more warm up than that would be good with your set up. A drier has a lot more cfm's and heat at operating speed but your low idle warm up will not get near those numbers. If you warmed it up at higher rpm's or ran high rpm's for any duration then I might be checking it to see but your point of expansion for the exhaust gases is very effective too.

I think you will find this to work just fine. Good job.

 

[Ob1kubota]

Whew~~~, that was very close, Huh~?!
I almost lost my father by Co a long years ago too.

I did running the tractor about 10 mins today and using laser thermo meter to measure the temperature on that 4 inch drier vent.
Highest point was 33 Celsius and most of spot was less than 15 Celsius.
So, I guess I'm safe to use that, Don't I?

and Ob1, could you check that post about 'Propeller shaft' and tell me what you think...?

Joe.

Joe you have done some great research and testing with your IR lazer now read the manufacturer specifications and see if they list the maximum temperature for a Dryer's exhaust before components begin to deform. If you are 10 degree C under their rated temperature that will be your safety margin but remember this about product liability the dryer hose pipe and exit door was never made to handle engine combustion exhaust. If this manufacturer is on the ball , they will make a statement or place a decal on the actual damper door not to be used for any other purpose then exiting a clothes dryer's exhaust. Not with standing, again, this is why I cautioned you about the CO detector, because if for any reason the hose pipe fails during a forseeable misuse of their product, the manufacturer will have a hold harmless claim already in place for a law suit by your insurer. Why your insurer because if it collapsed and you were in there working without an alarm for CO levels, it will be your Estate filing the complaints in local jurisdiction. Joe please buddy, think out side the box anytime you use a product for a not intended for purpose in which it wasn't tested to CSA/ UL listing, Etc., Etc., Etc......

 

[joekimtkd]

#1. Flexible Aluminum pipe.
http://www.buildersbest.com/pdf/v230spec.pdf
Operating Temperature range : -100 F (-73 C) to 430 F (221 C)


#2. Foil type duct.
http://www.buildersbest.com/pdf/foilduct.pdf
-20 F (-29 C) External use, 180 F (82 C) Intenal use.

Whew~~~! I finally found these spec. sheet from the manufacturer site.
Flexible Aluminum pipe (#1) is the one I used for exhaust gas.
So, temperature wise I don't have to worry no more~ As my laser thermometer shows 33 Celsius was highest point on the Drier vent after 10 minutes running on idle. (900 RPM). and inside of garage's temp. was 15 Celsius at 4 feet high. and outside was 17 Celsius and sunny weather.

and I had Co detector installed in my garage too. (at 4 feet high)
but around 20 to 30 minutes of tractor running inside of the garage and all the doors and windows were closed, but it didn't go OFF at all. BUT I could smell some of exhaust fume though...
My nose is more sensitive than Co detector...

Thank you again. I'm learning a tons of stuff from you...!!!

Joe.

 

[seanbarr]

Revisiting an old thread, I know...

I plan to do the same setup this summer but with a twist by using a vent blower to create negative pressure and draw it all out.

I used to be an engineer for San Bernardino Co. F.D. in Calif and we had rigs that were hooked up with exhaust systems that have high temp rubber bladders that inflated around the exhaust, holding it in place. Older system used magnets. All had blowers that exhausted air like nobody's business!

 

[bosshogg]

Pushing exhaust through a pipe creates excessive back pressures working against the engine it was not designed for. I would say far less damage would occur by moving the tractor outside once started and allowed to warm up. Now if the exhaust system had a mechanical suction to it that would change everything.

 

[Stumpy]

Huh? As long as the tube you're adding isn't much smaller than the original exhaust pipe as far as the engine's concerned there's you can add 20ft of pipe without much change in back pressure. With 4in dryer hose and an exhaust fan adding suction it'll actually decrease the back pressure compared with the stock setup and improve scavenging....

Sean I wouldn't seal the vent around the end of the exhaust, that'll significantly improve the air flow and probably suck anything that comes out of the breather tube with it.

Maybe I'm picturing this wrong but that makes sense at the moment.

 

[seanbarr]

Stumpy, I wouldn't seal it either! Just wide enough over the exhaust with enough room to draw in the surrounding air is the ticket.