BX2660 Took off going down steep grade!

[kupitz]

I have a very steep driveway, probably 15% grade roughly. The first time I took my BX2660 down the drive this past weekend about halfway down it took off like a bat out of hell and I nearly rolled it! I was in 2WD high range at the time, bucket about a foot off the ground with trash in it, maybe 30lbs worth.
My old B7100 HST never took off on me like that in all the years I owned it, so I was a bit surprised.
Was this simply a matter of my foot not being on the pedal and returning to neutral on it's own? I only use the pedal to get moving and simply remove my foot. This worked fine on my old tractor but it never really returned to neutral on it's own, I always had to "bump" the opposite direction of the pedal to stop.

 

[CountryBumkin]

I've read a couple of stories here, just like yours.

I assume you tried to apply the brakes. When in 2wd the brakes do not get applied to the front tires. So you only have the back tires to stop you. Then with weight in the bucket and going downhill, the back tires are not "loaded" so they just skip/slide and you end up with no braking. I'm not sure if this is what was going on with your tractor - but the rule is to keep the tractor in 4wd all the time (unless on pavement).

When you remove your foot from the HST pedal, it should return to neutral and stop the tractor in a few feet (on level ground). If your HST pedal sticks and acts like a cruise control, you need to have it repaired (lubricate it, maybe the return spring is broken, etc.).

 

[kupitz]

Yes, I hit the brakes and the rear wheels locked up quick. They are filled so I'm sure that helped some. I was on pavement which is why I was in 2WD.
Strange the the front brakes aren't used if not in 4WD. I will have to remember that!

You mention stopping on level ground in neutral, on a grade gravity would take over I assume right? The neutral position of the pedal has no braking affect or no sort of hydro lock right?

 

[TripleR]

I too have a BX2660 as well as BX2200 and this never happened.

From a thread on another forum, post by LD1 on front and rear braking:

"Well, there are actually no brakes on the rear tires either. Or even the wheels for that matter. Most of our CUT's have inboard brakes, so they are actually NOT braking the wheel, rather they are braking the axle, which is coupled to the wheel. Same thing for the fronts, IF in 4wd, those SAME brakes are mechanically connected to the front wheels. It just has to go through a few more gears and shafts first, thats all. Think of it as one big system, all inter-connected. It dont matter where the brakes are.

Another example I like to use is the old 2.5T military axles (for those mudder guys). Those dont even have brakes on the axles. They have brakes in the Pinion."

 

[bcp]

"Neutral" on the HST pedal is not "out of gear" or "free rolling." It is more like a "zero speed gear." Or a slow motion parking gear.

I have had my BX run away like that for a yard or so before I braked it. The cause was the Rabbit-Turtle handle not fully engaged in gear and it popped into neutral.

Bruce

 

[kupitz]

"Neutral" on the HST pedal is not "out of gear" or "free rolling." It is more like a "zero speed gear." Or a slow motion parking gear.

I have had my BX run away like that for a yard or so before I braked it. The cause was the Rabbit-Turtle handle not fully engaged in gear and it popped into neutral.

Bruce

Thanks Bruce, My low/hi speed handle was engaged, I didn't have to do anything to come back up the hill after sliding down. SO it would seem something is wrong that allowed it to free wheel out of control. I found another post about low fluid level allowing the hydro sump to pump air as a possible cause. I will check that but I just changed fluids for my 50 hour service 2 hours agao and checked the next day so I don't think that's it.

Any other possible reasons anyone can think of that would cause this?

 

[CountryBumkin]

Just to clarify - did stepping on the brake pedal stop the tractor as soon as you stepped on the brake? Was it just that the situation got scary before you were able to use the brake pedal?

Or If the brake pedal was not getting the job done, then that says to me there was too much weight on the front (from FEL and downhill inertia) so the back tires where skipping/sliding when you stepped on the brake. If this is what was happening then you need to put tractor in 4wd - so the front tires will assist in slowing you down.

As TripleR was saying, the brakes are not located at each wheel (like with a car), these tractors just have a single brake applied to the rear axle, so if you are in 2wd, the front axle is not "connected" to the rear axle and therefore the braking force is only applied to the rear tires - the front tires are not assisting in any way (and in your situation, the front tires have more traction then the rear so you really want them in the equation).

 

[85Hokie]

Thanks Bruce, My low/hi speed handle was engaged, I didn't have to do anything to come back up the hill after sliding down. SO it would seem something is wrong that allowed it to free wheel out of control. I found another post about low fluid level allowing the hydro sump to pump air as a possible cause. I will check that but I just changed fluids for my 50 hour service 2 hours agao and checked the next day so I don't think that's it.

Any other possible reasons anyone can think of that would cause this?

I have a 5/12 slope yard, coming right in a 22.5 degree slope - it is about 30 yards wide and flattens out after about 60 yards down, I made the mistake of going down it ONCE on my B7100 .......in two wheel drive and experienced the same thing as you did! Glad the trees at the bottom are spaced well!

I can go down and up the hill without spinning or sliding if I leave it in 4wd - which I do all the time, if I left off the pedal - the machine will actually stop by itself after a few feet - never need the brake at all.

Once you break traction with the rears, YOU WILL accelerate - and then some! SIMPLE physics, Much like a skier accelerates going down hill with little effort.

I had the exact same thing happen on my old FORD 8N.....once traction broke, it is "Katy, bar the door" cause you can do nothing to stop it other than ride it out and check you shorts.

I do not think you have anything wrong with your machine - I think it was a simple problem with traction, or loss of it.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Unless I missed it everyone has responded to your braking problem. I think the solution is a little different. If you are losing rear traction to the point you can't stop, you should be adding some rear ballast to keep the rear tires on the ground or backing down the hill. If you are losing traction with that light of a load you probably don't have even loaded tires.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I work on a steep driveway all the time.
#1 Keep it in 4wd, it will give you better traction even on braking or deceleration, as long as it's not paved or concrete you'll be perfectly fine with it.
#2 You need to load the rear tires and have rear ballast, as it sounds like you just popped the rear tires off the ground.
#3 DROP THE BUCKET, that will stop you!

 

[sheepfarmer]

Fwiw, on my 3560 hst if you take your foot off the travel pedal it stops, grade or no grade, but it will not hold the tractor on an incline, it creeps. I think the HST needs adjusting or checking on kupitz's tractor. It shouldn't go with no foot pressure. But several other questions come to mind. Seems like safety trumps wear on the front end so 4wd on his drive might be sensible, even though paved. Also I am puzzled as to why it would suddenly take off halfway down, and presumably before the brakes were applied. What suddenly let loose? 30lbs in the fel is not all that much. Last, from those of you that have been there and done that, what really happens when you drop that bucket at any kind of speed? I have visions of the tractor flipping over if it hits a bump, or propelling the driver over the hood if the safety belt is not snug

 

[kupitz]

I hope I get all the answers to the previous questions, not sure how to quote several previous posts.

Let me start by saying on level ground I need to use the pedal to travel forward and reverse and releasing the pedal stops the tractor within a few feet like it's supposed to. My earlier comment about taking my foot off the pedal and letting it go was related to my old tractor and even the new one when going downhill only.

I'm not quite sure I lost traction, I know that when I hit the brakes I could hear the tires skidding but fairly certain I didn't hear it before using the brakes. It felt to me as if it were gear driven and simply jumped out of gear into neutral. First thing I checked was the 2WD/4WD and Hi/Lo range levers to be sure they were engaged, and as mentioned I didn't touch either of them to return up the hill after coming to a stop and unloading my trash at the bottom.

The very first things I did to my tractor when I bought it were the 50 hour service as the PO didn't and it was showing 58 hours on it. And since I always had a problem with the old B7100 pedal returning to center I verified the BX did just that. I have the manual and I believe it said it should stop within 10 feet on level ground from full pedal to stop and it did.

 

[bcp]

The BX2360 243 Loader manual recommends a maximum of 420 pounds on the rear as loader ballast, if no implement attached. You should have at least a couple 100 pounds. What did you have?

Bruce

 

[kupitz]

The BX2360 243 Loader manual recommends a maximum of 420 pounds on the rear as loader ballast, if no implement attached. You should have at least a couple 100 pounds. What did you have?

Bruce

Bruce, both tires were filled by the PO but I don't know what that equates to in weight, roughly 100lbs per tire from what I can gather on here. Like I said only about 30 pounds in the bucket, my weekly kitchen sized bag of trash and a box of recyclables.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Try it again in low range 4wd and see how it feels!

 

[kupitz]

Try it again in low range 4wd and see how it feels!

I can do that but should I have to use 4WD to prevent that from happening? I understand now that I have no front brakes in 2WD, and that itself may be enough to convince me to always use 4WD. But the more I think about what happened, it had to have "jumped out of gear" so to speak. If I had lost traction on my rear wheels braking wouldn't have stopped me since I have no front brakes in 2WD. Still has me thinking something else is wrong. I'll check my fluid level tonight again and report back.

Thanks all for the input.

 

[eng1886trk]

I have a steep 15% grade driveway as well that is rough. If I am not in 4wd with my B2650, then it has the tendency to start to get away from me, especially with a loaded bucket. I never run up or down without it not being in 4wd anymore. I made that mistake once.

The one time it did get away from me, I had the back brakes locked and we were just sliding right along. If all else fails...drop the bucket to the ground.

 

[TripleR]

I can do that but should I have to use 4WD to prevent that from happening? I understand now that I have no front brakes in 2WD, and that itself may be enough to convince me to always use 4WD. But the more I think about what happened, it had to have "jumped out of gear" so to speak. If I had lost traction on my rear wheels braking wouldn't have stopped me since I have no front brakes in 2WD. Still has me thinking something else is wrong. I'll check my fluid level tonight again and report back.

Thanks all for the input.

You may well be right, I had my L5740 do the same thing when I did not fully engage low. It worked fine for a while but kick out on a hill and scared the snot out of me. I'm now very conscious of how I engage it. You linkage may need to be adjusted.

 

[Grouse Feathers]

Someone here in a thread not long ago suggested that when you have the loader on and are driving where weight or balance is an issue keep your hand on the joystick. If you have your hand on the joystick you are ready to take immediate action that could prevent an accident. If your hand is on the wheel you have to think about what to do and you might not be quick enough.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I can do that but should I have to use 4WD to prevent that from happening? I understand now that I have no front brakes in 2WD, and that itself may be enough to convince me to always use 4WD. But the more I think about what happened, it had to have "jumped out of gear" so to speak. If I had lost traction on my rear wheels braking wouldn't have stopped me since I have no front brakes in 2WD. Still has me thinking something else is wrong. I'll check my fluid level tonight again and report back.

Thanks all for the input.

Like I said, I operate mine on steep grades all the time, and thus never even switch it out of 4wd, just gives better control all the time.
Also it's possible that there just wasn't enough resistance in High on the HST to give it proper slowing ( Think of a geared tractor/ truck in high gear, not much resistance / engine braking).