blew a hole in the side of the block

[joesmith123]

The part of the "sell and buy new" equation you're missing is all the used parts you will need to purchase will be impacted by the same economy, cost more!!!!

Meaning, "dont fix the tractor because the cost of parts to fix it are going to be too much"

Not really, I already have all the parts available since I have an entire spare tractor

What will cost alot? The only thing that this will cost, is 100+ hours of wrenching

Am i mistaken?

 

[joesmith123]

re: maybe source a new head, or a rebuilt head

Not clear as to why head is needed ? From the original picture, the con rod/cap broke,so a bottom end repair....head 'should' be fine ????

As for 'parts', you might get lucky and find another parts tractor,maybe in local scrap yard ??
A lot depends on what part of the world you're in...

This will be an interesting 'adventure' !!

Look at the video I posted of it running

That head mightve had a stuck valve that caused this situation

Parts tractor: I already have one

Adventure: Yes, this forum has already got me very far, I started out with just a bare tractor, they helped me find a bucket/backhoe, they helped me get it running, they told me how to do the hydraulic lines

Before I blew up the engine, they were guiding me on how to connect all the hydraulics for the bucket

Yes, I am fully on the long haul with these machines

 

[joesmith123]

From above
“I hope that bucket doesn't have to come off, long as I lift the machine high enough to work under it comfortably, then maybe I can do those tasks”

I would never try to do what you need to accomplish with the loader on the machine.

I believe that you should decide what your plan is.

Are you going to replace the block on the existing tractor, or try to repair the leakage on the running tractor and move lo and back hoe to that tractor, or try to patch the hole in the block.

I think all three options will require the removal of the loader and it is not safe to work underneath the weight of the loader that can fall down and crush you.

The engine block is used as the frame of the tractor and to remove the block you will have to remove the front axle and then the block from the rear part of the tractor.

The cheapest is to just move to the running tractor. The best is to get both engines out and rebuild the engine. I would not attempt to plu the hole since I would worry about continued stress and damage to the block, but the loader subframe might support it enough that it would last longer than you need.

please post back with your definitive path forward and you will get lots of information. Definitely get the work shop manual and take videos and pictures as you go. This could be a long journey but there is always an end.

Yes I have not done anything yet, I am just getting feedback and coming up with the best plan

First is gonna be patch it

Take the bucket off: I totally understand and that will probably happen

Move to the running tractor: that parts tractor, although it will run, it takes a lot of effort to get it going, there are leaks all over, it has 1500 hours

The tractor that blew up: 500 hours

I would rather rebuild the lower hour tractor

Right now, no decision, just brainstorming

I'm listening, "patch is not recommended"

long journey: honestly if I didnt have to work, i would get to it fairly quickly

Its just all my effort and energy is somewhere else now, but if I had the privilege of free time, I would get to it right now...

 

[joesmith123]

W


Just thinking about how many posts we may eventually have on this thread.
Possibly like... "pallets in the field".... over on TBN?

Send a link of this thread

I know it will be many posts because I have many questions and this forum is filled with very valuable information...

 

[joesmith123]

W


Just thinking about how many posts we may eventually have on this thread.
Possibly like... "pallets in the field".... over on TBN?

Just in terms of dollar value so far from this forum, I have got about 7-9K of value

They even helped me fix a tiny bx1500 (my only working machine at the moment) that I got for $700 with around 200 hours, and it even has a FEL

I've seen that same machine with the bucket and similar hours go for 6-7 thousand

Although that little one cant level land that well, she can at least clear some bushes

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This is definitely the best option and the best cost, but the machine will be down for a long time

I can do a full rebuild in a couple days, without breaking a sweat.
You should be able to do it over a week and a weekend.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Several kits avalible:

https://www.amazon.com/Hconcet-D1301DA-Overhaul-Rebuild-Compatible/dp/B09D8DKWM1

Overhaul Rebuild Kit for Kubota D1301 Engine L295DT L295F L305 Tractor

Overhaul Rebuild Kit for Kubota D1301 Engine L295DT L295F L305 Tractor

www.fridayparts.com

 

[fried1765]

This is definitely the best option and the best cost, but the machine will be down for a long time

"but the machine will be down for a long time"
Are you seeking a cheap (Rube Goldberg type) quick fix", or a long term (permanent) fix?

 

[Redhawk454]

how does that even happen?

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

If you're on a rebuild, waiting for ordered parts the most time spent. Plan in advance but doing it shadetree you'll forget something. And with no supply in your 'parts dept' you'll be waiting for parts.

With your two engines to salvage into one, there are parts you should buy new anyway. Gaskets and the like, of course.

If you use the block from one, definitely use the same main bearing caps, the crank shaft and rods and pistons. Unless you're really skilled with a machine shop.
If you use the head from another, use the whole valve train.
Is it a pushrod engine or OHV.... Cam shaft, timing chain...

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

To the OP, If you would have just swapped the engines, you'd be done by now. From the time that you started this thread.. you would be done. Fixing the donor engine leaks too.

I've swapped a few engines in my day and 4 hours was my record time.... for a Toyota Tercel... drive in to drive out. But it was for my kid.
....And that included clutch disc, clutch plate and a b#tch to get out pilot bearing.

Plan. Plan. Plan. Get your parts. Have your tools ready. Have 4x4 posts, jacks and whatnot because you'll be splitting the tractor.

I wish you well.

I personally fall into the category of ... Just sell it all for parts and buy a new tractor. Unless it's your dream machine and you will make it your hobby.

Good luck.

North Idaho Wolfman seems to know tractors... and in my opinion, his advice is gold.

I'm done here.

 

[joesmith123]

"but the machine will be down for a long time"
Are you seeking a cheap (Rube Goldberg type) quick fix", or a long term (permanent) fix?

where I'm at now:

use the little machine (which is actually down as well) to level some land, do the dry pour slab idea like I said before to make a platform to work on away from the elements

Then yes, put the two machines side by side and get this thing figured out

I cant just patch it because the head is still problematic, meaning

no matter what I have to do surgery, either minor (not split tractor) or major (split tractors)

One of the main reasons last time when I had apart, I did not get into the head, is because i did not have space that wasn't exposed to elements/rain

Now: I do have some shaded area, but the ground is dirt, and the sides are open

I dont want to have insides of engines/gears/etc exposed to elements

I'll make the slab, do the siding/guard from elements, use the pickup truck and ram into the tractors until they are in the shop in good positions to take apart

Then I do whatever needs done

But I wont order anything or worry about any details until I'm at that point

 

[joesmith123]

I can do a full rebuild in a couple days, without breaking a sweat.
You should be able to do it over a week and a weekend.

Yes I will set that area up and get on it

It will take a few weeks to get it all setup

 

[joesmith123]

how does that even happen?

I dont know much about engines, but from what I understand:

The center valve was stuck in the wrong position, and the piston collided into it

totally my fault trying to cut corners

 

[joesmith123]

If you're on a rebuild, waiting for ordered parts the most time spent. Plan in advance but doing it shadetree you'll forget something. And with no supply in your 'parts dept' you'll be waiting for parts.

With your two engines to salvage into one, there are parts you should buy new anyway. Gaskets and the like, of course.

If you use the block from one, definitely use the same main bearing caps, the crank shaft and rods and pistons. Unless you're really skilled with a machine shop.
If you use the head from another, use the whole valve train.
Is it a pushrod engine or OHV.... Cam shaft, timing chain...

"You'll be waiting for parts"
Thats ok, it is the most economical way to repair engines
Otherwise, your ordering parts that you thought you would need
They can get pretty expensive, even small parts

"two engines into one, you need to order parts anyway"
Yes, I'll probably get genuine japanese gaskets from messick

"If you use the block from one, definitely use the same main bearing caps, the crank shaft and rods and pistons."

Yes, meaning:
Those parts were honed specifically for that block. If I order a new one, it might be a little off because they are fitted.

"If you use the head from another, use the whole valve train."

Is your statement saying: do not open the head and try to rebuild it, its too finicky and not worth the hassle. Get a whole head already put together by machine shop.

Ok yes, I did find genuine kubota rebuilt head

Kubota D1301 Engine for Sale

Shop our inventory of rebuilt Kubota D1301 Engine at unbeatable prices. Enjoy our hassle-free online checkout or call to speak to an expert.

www.vanderhaags.com

it says, rebuilt with the valves...$1600...
The chinese knock off: $400-500

"Is it a pushrod engine or OHV.... Cam shaft, timing chain..."

I think it is overhead valve, I'm pretty sure there is no timing chain, I think it is timing gears. I think it has a camshaft.

I'm not really good with the vocabulary, but I can fix stuff.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The center valve was stuck in the wrong position, and the piston collided into it

FYI: That is very very very unlikely
Pull the valve cover and you'll have your answer real quick.
If the valve struck the piston the top end will be toasted, and you'll see it!
And a struck valve normally will just destroy the piston, it typically won't break the rod off the crank.

The more likely story is it had a bearing going out an sized the rod to the crank then broke the cap off and spit the rod out the side.
The option of just patching up the block and running it is highly unlikely, because I'm betting the crank is toast along with the cylinder liner and more than likely the rod and the piston!

 

[joesmith123]

I've swapped a few engines in my day and 4 hours was my record time.... for a Toyota Tercel... drive in to drive out. But it was for my kid.
....And that included clutch disc, clutch plate and a b#tch to get out pilot bearing.

I bet you did, there are really talented people on this forum, amongst the most talented on earth I would argue

To the OP, If you would have just swapped the engines, you'd be done by now. From the time that you started this thread.. you would be done. Fixing the donor engine leaks too.

I've swapped a few engines in my day and 4 hours was my record time.... for a Toyota Tercel... drive in to drive out. But it was for my kid.
....And that included clutch disc, clutch plate and a b#tch to get out pilot bearing.

Plan. Plan. Plan. Get your parts. Have your tools ready. Have 4x4 posts, jacks and whatnot because you'll be splitting the tractor.

I wish you well.

I personally fall into the category of ... Just sell it all for parts and buy a new tractor. Unless it's your dream machine and you will make it your hobby.

Good luck.

North Idaho Wolfman seems to know tractors... and in my opinion, his advice is gold.

I'm done here.

"Just sell it all for parts and buy a new tractor"

Show me this new tractor you are talking about?

If I purchase a "new" one, no matter what I still have to do major labor to get the amount of money that they cost

Now: I have to do major surgery to make this one work. Meaning, its the same result for me.

In fact, its worse if I get a "new" one because:

The new one is gonna break and at that point, I would have a broken new one, that I labored tremendously to purchase, and still NOT have the knowledge of fixing it

In that case: I took the loss on paying for a new one, and the loss of still not of having the knowledge, totaling 2 losses

wolfmans advice: yes I think he even said that the middle valve was acting weird from the videos i showed, yes I'll work on setting up the work area in the next couple weeks

 

[joesmith123]

FYI: That is very very very unlikely
Pull the valve cover and you'll have your answer real quick.
If the valve struck the piston the top end will be toasted, and you'll see it!
And a struck valve normally will just destroy the piston, it typically won't break the rod off the crank.

The more likely story is it had a bearing going out an sized the rod to the crank then broke the cap off and spit the rod out the side.
The option of just patching up the block and running it is highly unlikely, because I'm betting the crank is toast along with the cylinder liner and more than likely the rod and the piston!

Yes I do think a ton of stuff got damaged, I remember a pretty big spark/flame that made me think initially it was on fire, that was all different steels colliding etc

Yes, I'm understanding the the problem was on the bottom area since it wouldve toasted the top area, but it destroyed the bottom area

your saying it was a bad bearing that led to the catastrophe

"The option of just patching up the block and running it is highly unlikely, because I'm betting the crank is toast along with the cylinder liner and more than likely the rod and the piston!"

The rod and piston yes are destroyed, but maybe the crankshaft is ok because:

why was it running fine after it blew a hole in the side of the wall? Beside all clanking, it was running somewhat normal...

Edit: you could be right because: however the crankshaft moves that piston up and down, that area is probably damaged as well. Meaning yes, the other two pistons could be running fine since they did not have collision. The damaged area of the crankshaft is at area of the damaged non working piston...

 

[DustyRusty]

I had a similar dilemma with a 1964 Minneapolis Moline TLB machine that had a bad engine. I did a quick rebuild with new bearings on the rods and crank, reringed the pistons, and honed the cylinders. This was back in 1983 while I was building my new home, and needed the tractor in a hurry. The problem is that in my haste, I didn't do it correctly, even though I knew how to, I just cut corners. The engine started burning oil from day one of the rebuild, and after about 75 hours of the rebuild, the engine came apart. I sourced another engine, and this time I used the best parts of both engines and I didn't take any shortcuts in getting the engine done correctly. I had the cylinders bored and honed, the crank turned and installed new bearings to match. I also had to buy new pistons and rings to fit the bored cylinders. In the end, I spent a lot of money to fix that tractor correctly, and it cost me more than the tractor was worth, but it was worth it to me to have a large tractor that could do whatever I needed it to do. When I was done with my home and didn't need the tractor any longer, I loaned it to a friend who dug his complete foundation with the tractor and when he was done with it, he delivered it back to me in better condition than when I gave it to him. He painted it with a brush and it looked like a new yellow tractor. I then advertised it and the first person to come to look at it bought it for what I thought it was worth as a reliable machine, not what other similar machines were selling for that needed work. I bought it cheap knowing it had problems, but it wasn't a bargain when I think about all that I had to do to make it reliable. At the time it made sense because I didn't have the money to spend on a new tractor. I did recoup all that I spent, and the buyer got a bargain in the sense that he had a reliable tractor for his use. There are days that I still wish that I still had that tractor since it could dig a 12' hole with ease. It originally came from a cemetery and was used to dig graves, but the people that operated it abused it hoping that they would get a new tractor. If you fix your tractor correctly the first time and then maintain it properly, it will continue to serve you well long into the future. If you just patch it up, you will be doing the job twice and wasting money in the end. Learn from my experience and do it correctly the first time and you will have a reliable tractor for years to come.

 

[joesmith123]

I had a similar dilemma with a 1964 Minneapolis Moline TLB machine that had a bad engine. I did a quick rebuild with new bearings on the rods and crank, reringed the pistons, and honed the cylinders. This was back in 1983 while I was building my new home, and needed the tractor in a hurry. The problem is that in my haste, I didn't do it correctly, even though I knew how to, I just cut corners. The engine started burning oil from day one of the rebuild, and after about 75 hours of the rebuild, the engine came apart. I sourced another engine, and this time I used the best parts of both engines and I didn't take any shortcuts in getting the engine done correctly. I had the cylinders bored and honed, the crank turned and installed new bearings to match. I also had to buy new pistons and rings to fit the bored cylinders. In the end, I spent a lot of money to fix that tractor correctly, and it cost me more than the tractor was worth, but it was worth it to me to have a large tractor that could do whatever I needed it to do. When I was done with my home and didn't need the tractor any longer, I loaned it to a friend who dug his complete foundation with the tractor and when he was done with it, he delivered it back to me in better condition than when I gave it to him. He painted it with a brush and it looked like a new yellow tractor. I then advertised it and the first person to come to look at it bought it for what I thought it was worth as a reliable machine, not what other similar machines were selling for that needed work. I bought it cheap knowing it had problems, but it wasn't a bargain when I think about all that I had to do to make it reliable. At the time it made sense because I didn't have the money to spend on a new tractor. I did recoup all that I spent, and the buyer got a bargain in the sense that he had a reliable tractor for his use. There are days that I still wish that I still had that tractor since it could dig a 12' hole with ease. It originally came from a cemetery and was used to dig graves, but the people that operated it abused it hoping that they would get a new tractor. If you fix your tractor correctly the first time and then maintain it properly, it will continue to serve you well long into the future. If you just patch it up, you will be doing the job twice and wasting money in the end. Learn from my experience and do it correctly the first time and you will have a reliable tractor for years to come.

Yes I can relate:

There is nothing worse than being in the middle of construction, then having to do major surgery on a machine that you need for the construction

No joke, right now in today's diluted money, any machine that can dig 12 feet deep and is reliable, is minimum 40-50 thousand, used. I see old mini excavators that can dig 8 feet going for 30K. nothing special.

I bet you that machine is still running today...