A fun day ...

Old_Paint

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Didn’t read paints response too long.
Well, then that sets the value of your opinion, then. If you don't read all of a response, then you're not really fully informed, ergo, not qualified to judge or debate someone else's reasoning.

Poor packaging in this case make the product dangerous to handle at all. It's a heavy piece of steel with extremely sharp edges laid in a cardboard box with nothing to protect the box from the edges, let alone prevent it from penetrating and doing other damage. It's no surprise at all that the box failed. And you don't think BXPanded has any liability for it? Bet you'd have a different opinion if something of yours was destroyed by their bar. But, I guess you must have plenty money to just go buy things over and over again. Some of us must have to work harder for what we get.

I stated all the facts to BXPanded, gave them the same photos I put in this thread, and they should know when a customer is unhappy. To me, that is "ripping" them. I wasn't nasty, but I was very angry. If they don't care, they won't be in business long. I don't think it's fair to me to have to just accept "stuff happens" and eat the cost to repair what someone else did to my home by neglect.
 
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NHSleddog

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Well, then that sets the value of your opinion, then. If you don't read all of a response, then you're not really fully informed, ergo, not qualified to judge or debate someone else's reasoning.

Poor packaging in this case make the product dangerous to handle at all. It's a heavy piece of steel with extremely sharp edges laid in a cardboard box with nothing to protect the box from the edges, let alone prevent it from penetrating and doing other damage. It's no surprise at all that the box failed. And you don't think BXPanded has any liability for it? Bet you'd have a different opinion if something of yours was destroyed by their bar. But, I guess you must have plenty money to just go buy things over and over again. Some of us must have to work harder for what we get.

I stated all the facts to BXPanded, gave them the same photos I put in this thread, and they should know when a customer is unhappy. To me, that is "ripping" them. I wasn't nasty, but I was very angry. If they don't care, they won't be in business long. I don't think it's fair to me to have to just accept "stuff happens" and eat the cost to repair what someone else did to my home by neglect.
Repair what?

In BX's defense, was THEIR product damaged in shipping? As a manufacturer you always want to make sure the packaging is adequate for your product.

My bar showed up undamaged however the cardboard being quite a bit weaker than the product did have damage to it from shipping.

Arguing the too much money point is pointless. You are starting from a point of having so much of it that you go after scatches in a porch. Many of us would have to eat the sctatch on the outside walking surface.

Fix it, don't fix it, wabi-sabi either way. It will end up the way it was intended.
 
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jimh406

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Arguing the too much money point is pointless.
Arguing the OP should be ok with having damage to his house is pointless, too, and yet, you posted. Fwiw, I think trolling is more appropriate in a fishing forum. ;)
 

NHSleddog

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Arguing the OP should be ok with having damage to his house is pointless, too, and yet, you posted. Fwiw, I think trolling is more appropriate in a fishing forum. ;)
Touche' well done! You must be a professional fisherman. Although my statement in whole reads a lot more accurately than the snip you took out of the middle.

No, he should rebuild the house if that is what makes him happy. Fix it, don't fix it, wabi-sabi either way. Rebuild the whole porch and then rope it off, never allow it to be used to walk on or put things on again, God forbid the sun hits it from any angle, should probably put a roof over it and a fence around it to just in case - lol.

BXExpanded did not damage anything of his was my point. BX Expanded did not order it and request it be sent to his house, he did.
 
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Old_Paint

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I used materials on my deck/porch/stairs to resist normal wear and tear of foot traffic, which is exactly why composite decking is so expensive and why I'm peeved about the damage. Stuff that's designed to last longer is normally more expensive because it doesn't sell as often (probably because it lasts longer). I bit the bullet for that cost because I didn't want to be in a mode of having to pressure wash and re-stain every year, not because I wanted to show off how much money I could spend. The cost was actually budgeted and justified based on maintenance and wear factors. What I did NOT anticipate was a giant saw being dragged on the edge. I probably wouldn't call that normal wear and tear. Had it been pine decking, there would have been huge splinters ripped out of it. While some may not give two poops about the appearance of their home, I do care about mine. That's why I invest in my property. It's not unlike a retirement plan, really.

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with FedEx [they called me]. They want the photos and will open a claim for me to have an adjuster sent out to have a look. Progress, I guess. Still no idea where it's gonna go. In all fairness to FedEx, I have to include the photos that show the holes in the box and lack of packing material to prevent the bled from coming out of the box. They can go after BXPanded if they choose, or figure out a way to share the damage with them.
 
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michigander

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what might work on those plastic boards is heating with small hand held propane torch.

at least try on a small test area it may surprise you how it blends from heat :)
 

Old_Paint

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Touche' well done! You must be a professional fisherman. Although my statement in whole reads a lot more accurately than the snip you took out of the middle.

No, he should rebuild the house if that is what makes him happy. Fix it, don't fix it, wabi-sabi either way. Rebuild the whole porch and then rope it off, never allow it to be used to walk on or put things on again, God forbid the sun hits it from any angle, should probably put a roof over it and a fence around it to just in case - lol.

BXExpanded did not damage anything of his was my point. BX Expanded did not order it and request it be sent to his house, he did.
But you trolled first, and he saw it for exactly what it was. I tried to ignore your ignorance, but he went troll trolling.

You are exactly correct that BXPanded didn't force me to buy from them, and somewhere, I think I even said as much myself. But they certainly have a good product, and do a lot of advertising for it. I paid a premium price for their bar, just like I did for the materials in my porch, for exactly the same reasons. I even over looked the fact that I was promised 2 week delivery, up until they had my credit card information. It bumped to 4 weeks that instant, and then actually took 8 weeks. Maybe COVID was making all their robotic welders and CNC machines sick or something. I don't have anything weird on my very standard 54" Kubota bucket, so the wonderful engineering that went into the bar has probably been done thousands of times. They made a lot of money with this bar on this sale. Once they're past the initial designs, the engineering costs disappear, and mass production can begin. That's good business practice in it's simplest form. No more complicated than that design is, I can't imagine them not having recovered their development costs within a few sales. The simplicity is exactly what I liked about it.

You're just being a jerk when you imply I don't understand the difference between careless destruction and normal wear and tear. I guess you're just ok with folks slamming their door into the side of your favorite vehicle, but perhaps you don't give a crap about what you drive or what you live in, nor how many times you have to pay to have nice things. I've worked a LONG time to be able to afford a few nice things, and I'll be damned if I'm going to just be 'wabi-sabi' about some idiot being careless with a dangerous product in irresponsible packaging. They could have put "We use the cheapest box we can find with no additional packing for you to have to throw away" in their advertising, and that might have swayed my purchase decision some. That kind of truth would be bad for business, wouldn't it? All I saw in my research was the raves about how good the bar was, and I reviewed at least a dozen different brands and styles before I selected their product. NO ONE said anything about cheap and inadequate shipping, mostly because the product is what was on their priority list, which actually, is also my top priority too. But that doesn't mean I should have to accept double the cost because they didn't include better packaging as part of their product. They're cutting corners for a few pounds of materials to reduce their shipping costs, I get it. I'm way too familiar with shipping stuff. Like it or not, they certainly share the responsibility for the damage to my porch.

Sure, if I did that kind of damage to my deck through my own carelessness, I'd HAVE to repair it at my own cost. But I DIDN'T DO IT, and it could have been avoided with more substantial packaging. THAT is the point. This was almost like pulling the pin halfway out on a claymore before putting it in a Walmart bag to ship it. It was doomed to fail.

You may think it petty to complain to the vendor about inadequate packaging or to seek compensation for damage done because of it, but if the next guy gets his blade delivered in a wooden crate and nothing gets damaged while handling it, I'll be pretty stoked for him. Too late for me to be happy about the delivery, that's for sure. The delivery is part of the purchase, like it or not. If no one complains about quality failures, nothing changes.
 
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Old_Paint

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what might work on those plastic boards is heating with small hand held propane torch.

at least try on a small test area it may surprise you how it blends from heat :)
It's a thought, certainly, and thanks for the suggestion. They're PVC coated for the color, so it's probably going to raise the darker core color. I'm surprised I haven't had the "fill it and paint it" suggestion yet, but maybe some did read that the whole purpose of the stuff was to avoid painting as long as I possibly could. Hopefully, until about 20 years after I'm worm food. Did I mention I HATE painting?

I've calmed down some since I first saw the damage. Not any happier about it, just calmer. I guess my anger came across as me being some picky snooty deep pocketed arrogant blue blood. Nope, I'm just a country boy that was so broke I couldn't even pay attention when I was a kid. I grew up to be a redneck with an education who ain't afraid of a little hard work. I got everything I have the hard way. No inheritances, no silver spoon. I left home at 17 with $200 in my pocket. Make or break. Up to me. I'm pushing retirement after a 40 year electrical engineering career in industrial field services, so I'll say I made it.

Mostly, though, I was brought up to respect and protect other people's property like it was my own, and in my work, I learned an awful lot about shipping liabilities, procedures, and best practices. In a business that requires shipping a product, if you can't include proper shipping preparations, you don't yet have a complete product, and that's certainly a quality factor. The company finance people called me regularly about shipping costs they thought could be improved. I would NOT compromise on shipping, because the risk of damage to very expensive equipment was not acceptable to me, and receiving broken equipment was less acceptable to my clients, especially since they'd sent it to me to make it usable again. There were plenty competitors out there at much lower prices. Customers generally came back to me after they got exactly what they paid for when they bucked on price and went to the competition. I was more expensive for lot of reasons, most of them quality related. I'd much rather have complaints about how hard it was to get past my container than complaints about the damage done by freight haulers.
 
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D2Cat

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Doesn't is seem unusual with as many of these tooth bars have been shipped over the years, if there was a problem with inadequate containers used in shipping there would be reviews stating so all over the tractor forums?

The only complaint I've ever read about is in reference to delivery time (and tongue in cheek comments on how sharp the edges are) !
 

Old_Paint

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Doesn't is seem unusual with as many of these tooth bars have been shipped over the years, if there was a problem with inadequate containers used in shipping there would be reviews stating so all over the tractor forums?

The only complaint I've ever read about is in reference to delivery time (and tongue in cheek comments on how sharp the edges are) !
One would think so, but I've found that no one says a word about the box until there's some serious damage. My guess is they're pre-possessed with the sharpness and how easy it is to install. Took me a lot longer to get the tools together than it did to actually install it. But, the packaging comments suddenlyl come outta the woodwork. So far, those that agree that the damage is unacceptable have ALL said the box was shredded when they got the bar. Most seem to have a shop or something like a concrete slab where it gets dropped off, so rarely are they too concerned about a few scratches that won't be visible after a couple weeks. Nor would I be. But the scratches on composite decking aren't going away. I'd be pissed about it on the back side of the house, but could probably live with it. These are right in front of my front door. There is NOTHING in that box to keep the teeth from coming through the side. It's a great product, and I learned to love it in a few minutes. But not enough to excuse the cost to my home. Put this thing in proper packaging, and hands down, best thing on the market for the target purpose. I don't regret my purchase, not at all. I just feel like I'm due recompense for the damage done getting it to me.

The tongue-in-cheek remarks about how sharp it is are not tongue-in-cheek at all. This thing's deadly if it hits something, or something hits it. It is EXTREMELY sharp for something intended to dig in dirt with. I peeled back a rather large oak root like a razor blade yesterday. It's a LOT sharper than the welded bucket edge. I'll have to remember to always put the bucket flat on the ground if not tilted slightly forward to make sure those teeth can't be accidentally bumped, and be extremely careful not to hit something like a tire with it. It would cut through a tire sidewall in a blink. "Your blade weeel cut!" It would probably pass any test that the judges on Forged In Fire could give it.
 

NCL4701

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The plastic decking has a lot of advantages but cost and repairabilty are not among them, so I don’t doubt you have a significant repair cost. With the location can also see it being like a chip in your truck’s windshield right in front of your face all the time. If it was over by the rear view mirror it might not bother you but if you’re staring at it routinely it can drive you nuts.

Good luck with Fed Ex. They probably owe you, but getting them to pay if they don’t pay voluntarily is easier said than done.

Most likely avenue for packaging changes is Fed Ex going back to the tooth bar mfg and working with them on packaging due to having to pay some claims like yours or having their workers injured, but if the tooth bar mfg pays you anything it would be more due to satisfy a customer than legal obligation.

One other possibility you might consider if you don’t get satisfaction from the involved parties is check with your homeowner insurer. If you have a named peril policy, it’s not likely going to cover your damage but if you have an open peril policy such as an ISO form 3 or 5, it likely would provide coverage at replacement cost subject to your deductible. Not ideal, but maybe worth checking into before you pay 100% yourself or spend 2X the cost of your deck on a lawyer as a matter of principle. A call to your agent to find out is free and not very time consuming.

Hopefully Fed Ex will take care of it. Reasonable chance they will, but I wouldn’t bet on it. Again, good luck...
 

Lil Foot

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I totally understand where you are coming from, and would probably react the same way if I was in the same situation.
It's sharpness is one of the main reasons it does so well; so sharp, that I feel it needs a guard when not in use.
Posts #12, #15
I probably would complained or given the packing a bad review IF I had any problems like you experienced, but I did not. We tend to only worry about what affects us personally, but I had no damage or injury, so any concern I might have had was quickly replaced by "I finally got my new toy!" (tool)
I actually worried briefly about any UPS employee's fingers who grabbed that chopped/sliced box.

I also really appreciate the ease of installation and removal, and just take it off when I'm not going to need it.
It is currently off.
 

B737

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This is not unique to bxpanded. How many rakes busting out of boxes leaving parts behind, grapples, plates, forks, adapters list goes on. Bxpanded does a great job taping up their hardware keeping it attached to the toothbar to its destination and not lost in transit. This issue is with fedex. are we to expect every item that weighs more than 30 pounds to come in a wooden box on a pallet? sharp edges and all.

I've bought two toothbars from them, plus another half dozen orders. Customer service, and their products have always been top-notch. (often left leaning against house, or on the porch made of Waterford crystal)
 
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hagrid

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That settles it: BXpanded is on my banned list for wonton destruction of private property.
 
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Old_Paint

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I totally understand where you are coming from, and would probably react the same way if I was in the same situation.
It's sharpness is one of the main reasons it does so well; so sharp, that I feel it needs a guard when not in use.
Posts #12, #15
I probably would complained or given the packing a bad review IF I had any problems like you experienced, but I did not. We tend to only worry about what affects us personally, but I had no damage or injury, so any concern I might have had was quickly replaced by "I finally got my new toy!" (tool)
I actually worried briefly about any UPS employee's fingers who grabbed that chopped/sliced box.

I also really appreciate the ease of installation and removal, and just take it off when I'm not going to need it.
It is currently off.
Yup, your response is exactly what I was talking about. I was pretty elated to see it on my porch until I saw what the FedEx driver did. But hey, I'm in fix it mode now. FedEx has called, all apologetic, etc, etc, and going to open a claim, etc etc. I'm not holding my breath, though, as you say.

I measured my bucket, and gave 'em the measurements as described, but the bar still seems a tad short. The bolts certainly are. I'm probably going to replace the bolts with some that are about 1/2" longer so it isn't quite so difficult to start the nuts. Dunno if I'll ever use the bucket without the bar, though.
 

Old_Paint

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The plastic decking has a lot of advantages but cost and repairabilty are not among them, so I don’t doubt you have a significant repair cost. With the location can also see it being like a chip in your truck’s windshield right in front of your face all the time. If it was over by the rear view mirror it might not bother you but if you’re staring at it routinely it can drive you nuts.
Yeah, the cost and reparability were considerations I made as well. The cost was painfully obvious, but I did a lot of research about the wear and durability, and convinced myself it was the way to go. In a way, even though I have a big ugly scratch on the porch now, it still looks a lot better than what the standard pine decking would. There would have been huge splinters pulled up had I used wood out there. I'm not too impressed with pine for decking. Despite being pressure treated, I already have a hole in one of the planks on my back deck where a deck chair poked through it. (rotten) It's only about 6 years old, and while it didn't cost as much as the composite, I did spend some premium dollars getting #1 grade decking to avoid knots and warping. #2 grade has to be put down as soon as you haul it home, or it'll crawl off by itself. Makes me glad I spent the dough on the composite out front.

It was just pure laziness on the driver's part to try to shove it up on the porch from the ground. I'm glad he didn't get hurt handling it, but when I first saw what he did to my deck, I was hoping he was using a new number base system because of missing digits. Anger is not a nice beast.
 
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dirtydeed

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I measured my bucket, and gave 'em the measurements as described, but the bar still seems a tad short. The bolts certainly are. I'm probably going to replace the bolts with some that are about 1/2" longer so it isn't quite so difficult to start the nuts. Dunno if I'll ever use the bucket without the bar, though.
I thought the same thing when I got mine. The mounting flanges will bend outwards toward the sides of the bucket quite easily when you snug it down and remain in that position. You'll only have a bit of a struggle mounting it the first time...BTDT

EDIT: If I recall correctly, I cut a 2x4 to fit inside the width of the bucket in order to brace the sidewalls of the bucket when installing the piranha bar. That kept the sidewalls of the bucket from deforming which caused the mounting flanges of the tooth bar to bend out flush to the bucket.

Edit/Edit: Never mind, I just saw that you already installed yours. :sleep:
 
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