80 foot trench for propane line

AndyM

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Sep 21, 2016
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Good to know a water heater option exists. While I am sorting through the heating issue I will keep it in mind. Given I had to add a second water heater to fill the BH's big tub I will need to be VERY sure it works well enough to replace them.
 

GeoHorn

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Expensive….but a beautiful solution for all year temps…. you might look into “geo-thermal” solutions.
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
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there's 2 ways for geo-thermal 'sourcing'
1) huge area of land with the piping laid in trenches, 6' under....
2) 2 or 4 very,very deep vertical wells

In my case, I didn't have the land area (only 1/3 ac) AND drilling 4 wells was super expensive.

Either is a 'one time ' expense and cost to run is cheap.
 

Freeheeler

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b2650 tlb
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there's 2 ways for geo-thermal 'sourcing'
1) huge area of land with the piping laid in trenches, 6' under....
2) 2 or 4 very,very deep vertical wells

In my case, I didn't have the land area (only 1/3 ac) AND drilling 4 wells was super expensive.

Either is a 'one time ' expense and cost to run is cheap.
OR 3) it's cheap and easy if you live on the lake. My system is just coils of pipe lying on the lake bottom with a pump that circulates the fluid. There is a heat sink coil that raps the exterior of the pump motor. The heat from the pump motor pre heats the city water coming in to an insulated water tank. This tank feeds the water heaters so they don't have to really add much heat. The whole system is extremely efficient for both heating and cooling.
 

Henro

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Good to know a water heater option exists. While I am sorting through the heating issue I will keep it in mind. Given I had to add a second water heater to fill the BH's big tub I will need to be VERY sure it works well enough to replace them.
What is the BH's big tub? I did look back but could not find any reference to this...

I am curious because I added a second water heater to feed very hot water to our relatively large Japanese bath tub, but fed it from the normal lower temp gas water heater that feeds the house, so I could preheat the water with gas BTUs before raising the temp with more expensive electric BTUs. There are reasons why I chose electric for the second water heater...

Can't help but think you really love your BH (backhoe) if you provide a hot tub for it... :ROFLMAO:
 

AndyM

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Well, I really DO love my Back Hoe but the BH abbreviation perhaps shows my lack of social media savvy - my BETTER HALF has a large tub that bubbles and whatever that she soaks the old bones in. If we had access natural gas there would be no issue - but the local utility tells me I need to convince all my neighbors before they will build a distribution network. Talk about herding cats...
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
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I had an Energy Kinetic System installed about 5 years ago, and it has been working flawlessly ever since. If I were to do it today, I would look into the cost of a closed-loop geothermal system.
 

The Evil Twin

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L2501
Jul 19, 2022
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Evil - the air to water is really the same as the Hydronic system? How does the propane figure in? As a separate back up somehow that is linked to the air to water system?

DustyRusty - yup, oil boiler feeding water baseboards. I didn't mention before I also have in-floor radiant heat in the shop so a boiler is a must.

GreensvilleJay - thanks for the lead - I did look at something like that but, at that time, it involved replacing the baseboards with small radiators. I will have another look.

My scheduled expert called to say they no longer do boiler work (a little surprise as I had indicated that right up front - welcome to Vancouver Island). She recommended "mini splits" as an alternative but was quick to point out the limitations.

So, I am back to square one. Oil is likely impossible to get approved here, propane has some in house resistance (danger zone) which leaves an electrical boiler (expensive to run I know). Maybe I will be lucky with the hydronic heat pump idea...

I did get a lead on someone that does boilers so we shall see.

racerboy - sorry - not trying to hijack your thread!
Air/ water is different from hydronic. Basically hydronic has the "outdoor" unit in the ground using the earth to reject or absorb heat. Air/ water uses a traditional outdoor unit and transfers the heat inside to a water loop.
If you have a forced air AC system then the heatpump would heat the home through the ducts. The LP boiler would heat through the water in cold temps. Given the cost of the two systems combined and your mild winters it would probably not be cost effective. I originally misunderstood that you had a boiler system for heating.
 

The Evil Twin

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L2501
Jul 19, 2022
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Quite right….that a “wide-area” outage would subject one to similar acquisition/delivery-problems… but the types of outages I’ve experienced in the past have not been area-wide or state-wide… they’ve been localized to only a portion of the county…. so diesel appears to me to have the advantage of being less dependent upon a delivery-service in those situations.
This quickly becomes a moot point in my view…. spending Ten-Large for a permanent standby generator to maintain for years….to deal with the hypothetical mere inconvenience of a two day or even a two-week outage is silly.
I’ll probably just stick with my contractor-generator and suicide cord to keep the refrigerators/freezers and lights/fans on. (Besides…if things really go “nuclear” … I can throw that portable generator in the back of the truck along with the “bug-out-bag” of food/ammo when I head for the hills.)
Yeah. Our area is a bit different. And I work from home. So the whole house is backed up. Even if it's a day or two I want to continue as normal. If feces hits the ventilator we roll out in the RV which has a generator.
 

fried1765

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Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Nov 14, 2019
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Eastham, Ma
Buried tanks should be dug up periodically to inspect the condition of the sacrificial anodes that are on the tank to prevent corrosion of the tanks. A few years ago I was considering a buried tank and at the same time, I had an inspection of the home. The inspector advised me that the insurance company frowned on buried tanks of any kind. I originally had a 2000-gallon buried oil tank and had that removed, and was planning on putting the propane tank where the oil tank was located. I now have 5 larger tanks that are near the driveway for easier filling by the propane truck. I also got rid of my propane generator and replaced it with a 4-cylinder Lister Petter diesel engine spinning at 1800 RPM.
There is NOTHING quite like a Lister Petter!
They are amazingly simple, and robust machines!
 
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D2Cat

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There is NOTHING quite like a Lister Petter!
They are amazingly simple, and robust machines!
I have a 12 HP LP diesel that was developed for use in the Alaska pipeline. It was setting on a large air compressor tank when I bought it. The local LP engineer said "That model isn't made any more, but you change the oil it it and you can give it to your grand kids." Original cost was $3200. He said they ran them non-stop. Changed oil while running.
 

fried1765

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Nov 14, 2019
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Eastham, Ma
I have a 12 HP LP diesel that was developed for use in the Alaska pipeline. It was setting on a large air compressor tank when I bought it. The local LP engineer said "That model isn't made any more, but you change the oil it it and you can give it to your grand kids." Original cost was $3200. He said they ran them non-stop. Changed oil while running.
I have a 12 HP LP diesel that was developed for use in the Alaska pipeline. It was setting on a large air compressor tank when I bought it. The local LP engineer said "That model isn't made any more, but you change the oil it it and you can give it to your grand kids." Original cost was $3200. He said they ran them non-stop. Changed oil while running.
LP diesels can be found throught the world running generators on islands, and in jungles
 

GeoHorn

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LP diesels can be found throught the world running generators on islands, and in jungles
Engines which rarely shut-down usually have great longevity…. That shut-dn/start-up heating/cooling/heating cycles are killers.

Apparently, depending upon which Brand of Tractor you purchase…it might come with a Lister Petter diesel:
93E0197B-8D7A-414D-A20B-AD58117290B7.png
 
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AndyM

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BX25DTLB
Sep 21, 2016
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'"Air/ water is different from hydronic ..."

Evil - thanks for the distinction. More things to consider.

GeoHorn - Haven't heard of any geothermal here, but can't hurt to ask about it.
 
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racerboy

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B2601
May 10, 2021
55
27
18
NJ
The propane co. was out for the third time yesterday. They said the trench was good. The only ‘hiccup’ is that they can’t put a 500 gal propane tank behind my shed (where the current 100 gal one currently resides). Due to local ordinances, any tank over 100 gal has to be 10’ away from any structure AND must be 10’ off the property line. The back of my shed sits 10’ off the property line. Here’s the silly part (I think). There are no such restrictions for the 100 gal tanks, so I am going to put four (4) of them behind my shed. And that will be completely within code. How crazy is that?

Mon a side note, should the BH on my tractor wind up on the floor when I park it overnight (without the aluminum pin to hold it in place)? It did this over the weekend, and I thought because it got into the low teens at night, it was due to the cold. So I parked it in the shop, which probably stays between 45-50 at night, and the same thing happened. I didn’t see any hydraulic fluid on floor to suggest a leak. I can try tightening the fittings later.
0BEB337E-B5CB-48BE-B009-D1D65116EF31.jpeg
 

GreensvilleJay

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BX23-S
Apr 2, 2019
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Greensville,Ontario,Canada
hmm... 4 or 5 , 100g tanks blowing up is OK compared to a 500 g going 'boom' !!!
Sadly I understand their 'reasoning', which really is 'silly'..
I built 5, 9by12 tractor sheds cause city demanded building permit,site inspection, eng certif for anything bigger........ ...ONCE you know the rules, you can play their 'game'.

YES boom goes down overnight, nature of the beast ( well the hydraulic valves ). That itty bitty gap that allows the oil to flow inside the valve does allow a drop of oil to pass 'through',the weight of the boom pushes the oil back.How fast depends on how well built the valve was......
BTW pretty sure the pin is steel not aluminum..least my toe says so.....
 
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The Evil Twin

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L2501
Jul 19, 2022
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63
Virginia
Mon a side note, should the BH on my tractor wind up on the floor when I park it overnight (without the aluminum pin to hold it in place)? It did this over the weekend, and I thought because it got into the low teens at night, it was due to the cold. So I parked it in the shop, which probably stays between 45-50 at night, and the same thing happened. I didn’t see any hydraulic fluid on floor to suggest a leak. I can try tightening the fittings later.
It's not uncommon at all.
 
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The Evil Twin

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L2501
Jul 19, 2022
587
411
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Virginia
hmm... 4 or 5 , 100g tanks blowing up is OK compared to a 500 g going 'boom' !!!
Sadly I understand their 'reasoning', which really is 'silly'..
I built 5, 9by12 tractor sheds cause city demanded building permit,site inspection, eng certif for anything bigger........ ...ONCE you know the rules, you can play their 'game'.

YES boom goes down overnight, nature of the beast ( well the hydraulic valves ). That itty bitty gap that allows the oil to flow inside the valve does allow a drop of oil to pass 'through',the weight of the boom pushes the oil back.How fast depends on how well built the valve was......
BTW pretty sure the pin is steel not aluminum..least my toe says so.....
Multiple smaller booms better than one big boom? 😂
 

lynnmor

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B2601-1
May 3, 2021
830
574
93
Red Lion
My BH70 leaked down in minutes from new, the boom cylinder was replaced and then that one was rebuilt, now it takes a few days to leak all the way down. There is much going on for the leak down to happen, for example the boom cylinder needs to get oil from another cylinder and that probably comes thru the cheap imported valves.
 

DustyRusty

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BX23S
Nov 8, 2015
2,774
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North East
On my old BX22, the outriggers would go down overnight, so I strapped them in the upright position. I always pin my backhoe, so I don't know if it will sag overnight. Didn't even put it on this past summer and it remains in the shed for the winter.