I've just bought a old Zen-Hon ZL2201 (Kubota L245) from what I understand it's around 22hp at the PTO, would this be correct? I got this tractor to use in my fencing & landscaping business with the intention of putting a post driver on the rear 3pt linkage however I'm now having second thoughts about this. Would I be better using a auger with a 6" bit to dig the post holes or would a post driver work better? My main concerns are is my little tractor big/heavy enough to handle the driver & the force it would put on the tractor. If that's the case would it be better to use a auger? I want the driver as it would be faster/ easier to use than the auger as no back filling would be needed. Any suggestions please
Post driver or auger?
- Thread starter Stu
- Start date
Apples and Oranges question there.
Driven posts are usually used for long runs that are maintained on a somewhat regular basis. Ground shifts commonly and if it's holding critters in, they rub on the fences and push at the posts. Driven posts give way quicker but can be replaced more easily.
Augered (post hole) posts are usually a bit heavier in nature, take longer to put in, but are more precise in their alignment and adjustment if you spend the time to do that. So they are used more in formal 'display' fences and ones that you don't want to mess with for years. The concrete protects the fence post base and so you have less maintenance over all.
So really it's about how long your runs are, the kind of fencing you're doing and how much maintenance you want to do on the fences. That tells you what implement you need.
Driven posts are usually used for long runs that are maintained on a somewhat regular basis. Ground shifts commonly and if it's holding critters in, they rub on the fences and push at the posts. Driven posts give way quicker but can be replaced more easily.
Augered (post hole) posts are usually a bit heavier in nature, take longer to put in, but are more precise in their alignment and adjustment if you spend the time to do that. So they are used more in formal 'display' fences and ones that you don't want to mess with for years. The concrete protects the fence post base and so you have less maintenance over all.
So really it's about how long your runs are, the kind of fencing you're doing and how much maintenance you want to do on the fences. That tells you what implement you need.
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
Ground makeup might be a factor also. At my place in the mountains, the huge amounts of limestone & sandstone rocks make using an auger pretty much impossible, but you can drive a t-post through them without too much trouble.
Very true. Some augers are made to deal with rock though...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pengo-6-X-4...138279?hash=item5d5bbe04e7:g:zisAAOSw5VFWQ54D
They can go through solid rock if your tractor has the HP or you have the patience...
Russell King
Well-known member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
I believe he is asking about a driver that will drive six inch posts into the ground, or pipes
I don't think the tractor has enough hydraulics for them - but that is just a guess
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I don't think the tractor has enough hydraulics for them - but that is just a guess
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
The post pounder we used for foundation on a tarp shed and for fencing was run on the back of a jd 755. It handled it just fine. Pto ran a pump/ hyd cylinder that dropped a weight on the post. Local ground is clay/hardpan.
Cant drive a 6" post in summer, spring is best. Summer a small gas auger will make a nice ceramic bowl. About two feet down. Augering needs a bigger machine,with capabilities to reverse.
We now use a small cat excavator for augering.
Cant drive a 6" post in summer, spring is best. Summer a small gas auger will make a nice ceramic bowl. About two feet down. Augering needs a bigger machine,with capabilities to reverse.
We now use a small cat excavator for augering.
I agree with Russell, I don't think you have enough hyd flow or tractor weight for a post driver.
In CA maybe, up here in the rainy NW it traps water and they rot off quicker.
Gravel or sand.
Not to totally derail Stu's thread, but I just had a donnybrook yesterday with the guys installing some fence. I did not want concrete, and as nickel pointed out it may not help the longevity of the post in wet ground, and as we all know Michigan was built on a swamp. Also it is a pain to dig out to replace a post, and posts tend to snap off rather than just lean if hit by a horse. They kept arguing and I finally allowed concrete for the gate hinge posts. But when a line they installed at the end of the day came out a mess with posts sinking over night I figured out why they were so red hot to throw concrete in. They were using a Bobcat and an auger about 18" across for 4x6 and 6x6 posts and only eyeballed the hole depth. So a lot of the holes were too wide and too deep. When they threw the posts in and loosely tamped them in the wet ground they sank, became crooked etc. They claimed their boss reamed them out for not using concrete (and it was all my fault) when it required extra time to straighten out things, which due to other mistakes I won't go into, was only partly successful. However, nearly all the posts on my farm, including some put in by their boss 15 years ago are standing straight and solid, and were NOT installed with concrete.
I concluded that concrete may be a coverup move for sloppy work if someone can't be bothered (or doesn't have) to use an auger that is a reasonable match for the diameter of the posts you intend to use, keeping tamping to a minimum. And that if you dig too deep, to put some of the dirt back before you install the post (and not try to solve the problem after the fact by throwing rocks in the hole alongside the post)
I concluded that concrete may be a coverup move for sloppy work if someone can't be bothered (or doesn't have) to use an auger that is a reasonable match for the diameter of the posts you intend to use, keeping tamping to a minimum. And that if you dig too deep, to put some of the dirt back before you install the post (and not try to solve the problem after the fact by throwing rocks in the hole alongside the post
)
There are many techniques for overcoming concrete/wood limitations in wet environments. There are techniques with the concrete post process that lets it be used on about any type of terrain. Some modern solution's put a gravel/sand combination in the bottom of the hole, set a PVC sleeve in the concrete and let you put a fully sealed pressure treated post into the sleeve. It's easy to replace, pretty much dumps all the moisture down into the gravel/sand. The exposed portion of the post needs to be kept fully sealed or treated regularly to keep the wood from absorbing excess moisture as well.
Is it always the best solution? No, it can be very expensive and labor intensive to do at times.
Driving doesn't always work in rocky soils, but it's actually a solution I like. I'm not a fan of the cable hammer drivers but the pneumatic ones are pretty quick.
If your tractor is heavy enough, you can make a hydraulic ram post driver. My Grandfather did just that and used what is now my, AC D-17 backhoe (9000 lbs) to drive several miles of T-post fencing with it. I wish I still had that driver but my grandpa disassembled it to use as parts on other projects. My father was going to recreate it but never got around to it. He has a T-post that it drove AROUND a rock about 1' in diameter. When they pulled the post out, it pulled the rock up with it. The post actually conformed to the rock. I'm heading back to my father ranch for Christmas, if I can find that T-Post I'll get a shot of it. It may not have survived my fathers scrap purge of 2014 though!
If you really want to get flashy buy a roll of aluminum flashing and cut caps out of them for the posts. The idea is to keep water out of the vertical grain. When I re-fenced a dozen years ago I tried a few different methods to see which lasts best. It's going to be the rail road ties.
It takes longer to back fill than dig here and I only found one rock. Really.
It takes longer to back fill than dig here and I only found one rock. Really.
I like I-beam and railroad ties for heavy fence/retainer wall applications. We have a big Railroad tie fence on one side of our property here and it's held up well over 30+ years. The main boards have to be changed out but the railroad tie posts work. Use those if you can afford them! Setting them is another matter as Railroad ties are usually covered in some kind of waterproofing that makes them last but are super messy to work with.
Making a kind of strange comeback (I think they were originally made in the 40's-50's or something like that) is the full concrete post or fence:
http://crescoconcrete.com/cresco-precast-fence-systems/
I've seen about a dozen of this kind of fencing now around here. It's pricier than traditional options but supposed to last for freakin' ever and only clean/paint maintenance.
Here's a pneumatic post driver to suit just about anyone's needs at a reasonable price. Need a portable air compressor, or a generator for your 110V unit.
http://www.rohrermfg.com/
http://www.rohrermfg.com/
You could probably rig up something like this to work anywhere you could get your 'bota.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Tra...507857?hash=item2a5d36efd1:g:Mq0AAOSwxN5WY01i
The pounder we used was very simple,angled front to back and side to side.
The pounder ram was maybe 2"bore and raised rather fast. Single acting cylinder and a big sort of dump valve. The bigger posts were 5".
The pounder ram was maybe 2"bore and raised rather fast. Single acting cylinder and a big sort of dump valve. The bigger posts were 5".
Tooljunkie, I have a post driver like you describe. It's old, but I pounded a few hundred post with it! Mostly 2" pipe.
Thanks for all the replys there are some helpfull tips my main reason for the driver is speed of erecting fence. Also as stated they make a better job of securing the posts, drilling out holes with a auger would be for gate posts etc that would be concreted in. Over here in the UK most areas the ground is Stoney but I find so long as the hole isn't too big & the holes are deep enough there no problem concreting the post. We use concrete post & gravel boards etc but I don't know if to do with our climate but concrete is expensive & doesn't out last timber by enough to make it viable. ( the steel reinforcing rods corrode coursing the concret to blow)
Most of my farm fencing is around horse paddocks where the horse lean against the fence rails cousing the fence to lean over this is why I would prefer to drive them in rather than dropping them in the hole & back filling.
Unfortunately being from the UK I have trubble understanding some of what your saying ( t posts, rail track fencing etc) but I think I get some of what your saying.
I think I'm going to look for a small PTO powered driver & try it out to see how it performs,
Would you agree I would be better off getting a unit that's powered from the PTO rather than the tractors hydoillics ? That way it should work ok or would I be better off getting one that's uses the hydroillics to power the driver?
Most of my work is erecting domestic fencing around houses/gardens where every post is concreted in to give it the required strength. For this type of fencing I would usually dig each hole by hand (using a long handled graft) in order that the fence is erected dead straight & true. Generally doing it this way the fence outlives the posts as they tend to rot out at ground level where rain water sits etc.
thanks for all your help & tips Stu
Most of my farm fencing is around horse paddocks where the horse lean against the fence rails cousing the fence to lean over this is why I would prefer to drive them in rather than dropping them in the hole & back filling.
Unfortunately being from the UK I have trubble understanding some of what your saying ( t posts, rail track fencing etc) but I think I get some of what your saying.
I think I'm going to look for a small PTO powered driver & try it out to see how it performs,
Would you agree I would be better off getting a unit that's powered from the PTO rather than the tractors hydoillics ? That way it should work ok or would I be better off getting one that's uses the hydroillics to power the driver?
Most of my work is erecting domestic fencing around houses/gardens where every post is concreted in to give it the required strength. For this type of fencing I would usually dig each hole by hand (using a long handled graft) in order that the fence is erected dead straight & true. Generally doing it this way the fence outlives the posts as they tend to rot out at ground level where rain water sits etc.
thanks for all your help & tips Stu
Lil Foot
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
1979 B7100DT Gear, Nissan Hanix N150-2 Excavator
A hot wire on the top will keep them off the fence! I inherited some vinyl fencing they ignore now.
Railroad tie fencing? The UK is Railroad heaven!
Here's what we are talking about: (you guys call them sleepers)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie
Here's a fence with railroad tie posts:
http://alpinefencing.com/wp-content/gallery/railroad-tie-fence/railroad-ties-001.jpg
Here's what we are talking about: (you guys call them sleepers)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_tie
Here's a fence with railroad tie posts:
http://alpinefencing.com/wp-content/gallery/railroad-tie-fence/railroad-ties-001.jpg