Wiring in lane shark on l3902…

Jasonized

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Hey folks.. yep, newbie is back! New question though…. I purchased a lane shark, the ls3, and am attempting to wire and plumb it in.
wiring…. I guess it’s normal for the third function to be switching ground, not power? That seems really odd to me, as it puts power on everything by default, which seems like it’s itching to short frequently. Oh well! At least, that’s what I see from tracing wiring. If I’m wrong, it would be good to know!
next, pressure side…. Which side of the solenoids drive which port? The install says green wire, and port A for power. The green wire on my third func is hooked onto the top solenoid, which is a new landpride 3rd function setup. Do I use port A with that? It’s entirely possible I swapped hoses when I installed it; I use the top button to open my grapple, bottom to close it. Is that normal, or did I mess it up? Reason I’m asking, is laneshark wants the pressure side to be the male qc, and that’s port B on my install, which is female…. So asking…

thoughts? I’m new, so please be kind!
 

DustyRusty

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No clue what a lane shark even is, or how you would wire it. Did this piece of equipment come with instructions? If so, how many times did you read them before trying to do this installation?
 

TheOldHokie

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Hey folks.. yep, newbie is back! New question though…. I purchased a lane shark, the ls3, and am attempting to wire and plumb it in.
wiring…. I guess it’s normal for the third function to be switching ground, not power? That seems really odd to me, as it puts power on everything by default, which seems like it’s itching to short frequently. Oh well! At least, that’s what I see from tracing wiring. If I’m wrong, it would be good to know!
next, pressure side…. Which side of the solenoids drive which port? The install says green wire, and port A for power. The green wire on my third func is hooked onto the top solenoid, which is a new landpride 3rd function setup. Do I use port A with that? It’s entirely possible I swapped hoses when I installed it; I use the top button to open my grapple, bottom to close it. Is that normal, or did I mess it up? Reason I’m asking, is laneshark wants the pressure side to be the male qc, and that’s port B on my install, which is female…. So asking…

thoughts? I’m new, so please be kind!
Switching ground would be odd.

Solenoids control the port on their end of the valve but how that matches up to the ports in the subplate is subplate/application specific.

I thought the Lane Shark needed its own dedicated power beyond port.

Dan
 

Jasonized

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How many times did I read the general (no machine specific) installation guide? Many, many times. View the old videos? Many times as well. My issue is not that I can’t understand the instructions, but that they don’t match the equipment given, and my lack of understanding of “standards” on tractors. One section mentioned the lack of wire color standards on tractors…. To me, DC is usually red for power, black for ground. But on my lane pride third function, power is white with a black stripe. There is a red wire on the connector, but its ground!

As an example, they include a bracket to mount that is for the L3901. They didn’t realize that it didn’t fit on the L3902, with the latest gen third function. They did thank me for finding that out…. But at least it was easy enough to modify.

While voltage is traceable, I thought I would ask before I start splicing into wires! I traced my third function and found out it switches ground, not power. I.e, on the switches, power is applied. hit the button, it goes to ground.

My third function has connections top-green, the bottom-orange. I don’t know which port is powered based on which solenoid is powered, and I haven’t been able to find anything on the net that discusses it, so I thought I would ask here. I did try to find out first! The ports are labeled A and B, but the solenoids are on the side, top and bottom.

A Lane Shark is a front loader mower. The LS3 requires a min of 5 gpm, so they claim it will work on the l3902. They have specific port requirements (directional motor), hence my request for advice before I finish hooking it up as trial and error.

The powered port comes from the 3rd function, but they have a dedicated return to tank line to bypass the return valve.

Thanks!
 

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re: Switching ground would be odd

not really. Meyers snowplows were that way(maybe still are ?), tons of electronics are,using simple, cheap MOSFETs. There are 'pros and cons' to every switching method,sometimes cost is THE factor, other times it's the designers choice that wins.

as for 'standards'...there are NONE. Doesn't matter be they tractors, trucks or planes. The colour of the wire doesn't signal the USE of the wire. Yes, there are semi generally accepted 'rules', but red isn't always +battery voltage or black always ground.
As for how to wire up your stuff. hopefully the mfr has supplied a proper wiring diagram ,which includes wire colours, switch pinouts and a sample 'how-to-wire-it' diagram. without that ,you'll have to 'ring it out'
 

Jasonized

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Well, guess it’s down to trial and error then. The “schematics” from the mfg are “red wire is power, black to ground, green to solenoid. Power side of the hydraulics is a male connect by our default. Make sure the return line goes directly to tank.”

Yay. Now, if I only knew which solenoid to connect it to… oh well. One extra wire gets patched if I get it wrong.

And if I can get enough parts…

thanks!
 

GrizBota

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So do you have an existing third function that Land Pride made? I recently installed a LP third function on my L3830. It is run by switching the positive wire. The body of it is pretty well grounded to the mounting bracket and rest of the tractor, there is no ground lead.

As to whether the hydraulic connector has a male to female connection at the end that plugs into the Lane Shark that’s entirely up to you, as long as it fits the side of the Lane Shark’s hose that you want it too, you can change either hose and either end of both connections however you want. My grapple’s hoses have one male and one female and so does my third function connections on the FEL. I think you want to know which one is the supply and which is the return? The markings on the third function’s valve body should help with that. On mine, the bottom left port is Port P port which the instructions say is connected to the power beyond Port P1 under the tractor (basically under the HST pedal). The port that is on the top left is Port A, which I “think” would then be the supply line at the third function connector on the front of the FEL.

I’ve attached a screen shot of the LP instructions for my third function. If that looks helpful or like you want more of the instructions, I have the full pdf I can share.
73157AB2-D9E0-4975-8569-B9BC0AD18D6A.png
73157AB2-D9E0-4975-8569-B9BC0AD18D6A.png
 

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Operate the third function and you will find out which port is operated by which switch position and from there which solenoid. That should be all you need to know.

As far as the hydraulics go it matters not whether you use A or B to supply the Lane Shark motor.

Dan
 
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GreensvilleJay

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wow, wonderful 'instructions'.....
can you take a picture of the actual solenoid wiring on the lameshark ?
solenoids are just a 'coil of wire' with 2 connections, grn is one, so what's the other and where does it go ?
i went to the website , ZERO info, not even instructions, manuals or parts pictures online,which is a real PITA especially for 'remote help'.

one possible answer is that they expect you to wire the red or blk wire to the 2nd terminal of the relay. This allows for either high side or low side switch on of the solenoid. again a picture or two hopefully will SHOW what's going on.

As for the 'ground to operate', it's necessary when there isn't a solid, permanent ground between machine and implement. In this setup the implement is physically attached to a SSQA,which is attached to a loader arms attached to the tractor. Each of these 'points of attachment' as NOT electrically 'soild'. Can't be 100% sure that electrons WILL flow when needed. It's also why every 4 pin trailer setup has a real ground connection through the white wire, as the ball is NOT a true ground.
 

TheOldHokie

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wow, wonderful 'instructions'.....
can you take a picture of the actual solenoid wiring on the lameshark ?
solenoids are just a 'coil of wire' with 2 connections, grn is one, so what's the other and where does it go ?
i went to the website , ZERO info, not even instructions, manuals or parts pictures online,which is a real PITA especially for 'remote help'.

one possible answer is that they expect you to wire the red or blk wire to the 2nd terminal of the relay. This allows for either high side or low side switch on of the solenoid. again a picture or two hopefully will SHOW what's going on.

As for the 'ground to operate', it's necessary when there isn't a solid, permanent ground between machine and implement. In this setup the implement is physically attached to a SSQA,which is attached to a loader arms attached to the tractor. Each of these 'points of attachment' as NOT electrically 'soild'. Can't be 100% sure that electrons WILL flow when needed. It's also why every 4 pin trailer setup has a real ground connection through the white wire, as the ball is NOT a true ground.
This is not rocket science and nobody can definitively answer the question because it depends on arbitrary third party wiring.

The Lane Shark uses a bidirectional control valve to supply unidirectional hydraulic flow. You can use either of the 3rd function work ports for that. All you need to know is which work port on the subplate is powered in each switch position. Plug a hose in and find out.

Most of the third function kits also have Deutsch or DIN 43650 plugs on the solenoids. Swap them and you swap the assignment.

Dan
 
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Jasonized

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This is not rocket science and nobody can definitively answer the question because it depends on arbitrary third party wiring.

The Lane Shark uses a bidirectional control valve to supply unidirectional hydraulic flow. You can use either of the 3rd function work ports for that. All you need to know is which work port on the subplate is powered in each switch position. Plug a hose in and find out.
sigh. Guess I’ll have to. I‘m the type of guy who wants to understand why, and get it right the first time. Bad idea owning a tractor, right? 😏

And it gets worse… looks like I need to replumb the third function. Landpride has you install the 3rd function ahead of the loader. But the shark wants it downstream so you don’t lose loader priority..

I wonder how those two will interact. Maybe I should have just purchased a new rear remote…

Thanks all, I’ll let you know how it turns out.
 
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TheOldHokie

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sigh. Guess I’ll have to. I‘m the type of guy who wants to understand why, and get it right the first time. Bad idea owning a tractor, right? 😏

And it gets worse… looks like I need to replumb the third function. Landpride has you install the 3rd function ahead of the loader. But the shark wants it downstream so you don’t lose loader priority..

I wonder how those two will interact. Maybe I should have just purchased a new rear remote…

Thanks all, I’ll let you know how it turns out.
Understanding how all of these systems work is key.

Land Pride normally puts 3rd function after the loader so double check that. if it needs to be moved all thats required is switching P and T.

Bottom line is the Lane Shark is a constant flow motor with direct tank return and when it is running its going to divert your hydraulic flow away from all down stream devices. A cheap ($120), simple, and very efficient way to plumb it is one of these installed in the power beyond line anyplace after the loader. The Lane Shark constant flow valve and switch is their $2000 12V version.

Dan

1685021569660.jpeg
 

GreensvilleJay

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I was pondering the plumbing problem as the cutter needs oil 'all the time' while cutting, so their 'plumbing package' has to be added to get 'live' oil,modifying the tractor's stock setup, otherwise you'd have to hold some lever 'on' when you want to use the cutter.
the simple solution would be adding a 'rear remote' and 2 hoses to the cutter....NO electrical involved.
I assume OP bought the 'kit' with the fancy control box having 3 PB LED ?
Sadly their website is lacking any real information about actual installation
 

Jasonized

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the simple solution would be adding a 'rear remote' and 2 hoses to the cutter....NO electrical involved.
I assume OP bought the 'kit' with the fancy control box having 3 PB LED ?
Sadly their website is lacking any real information about actual installation
yep, almost complete newbie, so purchased through a dealer. They sent me a switch kit that included the whip hoses for the actual motor to fel, qc for those (but not flat face that I use), one return hose without qc but with a T, and switch and bracket. Oh, and a handful of zip ties. Can’t forget those! $850. So far, modified the bracket so it would fit my tractor (land pride moved the solenoids, so bracket needed a cutout), purchased a short hose and qc set for the return hose. Oh, and a mount for the fel at the front to replace the mount that only had two holes. ( I did ask them why a front mount was not included, and they said that most people probably just zip tied it to the front…) seems the kit lane shark sells for generic valves doesn’t bother to include things like quick connect, or check the valves they say are needed on the full kit. But then again, I ”saved” almost $200 by saying I already had a 3rd position! 🤨


Dan said:
Understanding how all of these systems work is key.

Land Pride normally puts 3rd function after the loader so double check that. if it needs to be moved all thats required is switching P and T.
Here is the page from the install instructions for the LP 3rd function.

seems simple enough, shows pump out to the valve, then up to the loader block. But now I need to reverse that so it doesn’t take everything from the loader when I turn it on.
Not sure the hoses will reach if I just swap them around, so might have to get some more. Already had to do that for the return hose, since I want to keep my ability to remove the loader if necessary…

I’m also not entirely sure what your pic is.. from context, I would assume it’s some type of manual diverter valve? so there would be a hose in, and two out?

I’ve already got all this other stuff, might as well finish it.

I will probably get rear remotes at some point… I’d like to get tilt and twist for my 3 point in the future. Resetting while grading is getting old quickly.. 😁

Thanks!
 

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ve9aa

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wow, wonderful 'instructions'.....
can you take a picture of the actual solenoid wiring on the lameshark ?
solenoids are just a 'coil of wire' with 2 connections, grn is one, so what's the other and where does it go ?
i went to the website , ZERO info, not even instructions, manuals or parts pictures online,which is a real PITA especially for 'remote help'.

one possible answer is that they expect you to wire the red or blk wire to the 2nd terminal of the relay. This allows for either high side or low side switch on of the solenoid. again a picture or two hopefully will SHOW what's going on.

As for the 'ground to operate', it's necessary when there isn't a solid, permanent ground between machine and implement. In this setup the implement is physically attached to a SSQA,which is attached to a loader arms attached to the tractor. Each of these 'points of attachment' as NOT electrically 'soild'. Can't be 100% sure that electrons WILL flow when needed. It's also why every 4 pin trailer setup has a real ground connection through the white wire, as the ball is NOT a true ground.
Am I the only one who caught the Freudian slip (or sly attempt at humour?)

Good one Jay ! ! !
 

TheOldHokie

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yep, almost complete newbie, so purchased through a dealer. They sent me a switch kit that included the whip hoses for the actual motor to fel, qc for those (but not flat face that I use), one return hose without qc but with a T, and switch and bracket. Oh, and a handful of zip ties. Can’t forget those! $850. So far, modified the bracket so it would fit my tractor (land pride moved the solenoids, so bracket needed a cutout), purchased a short hose and qc set for the return hose. Oh, and a mount for the fel at the front to replace the mount that only had two holes. ( I did ask them why a front mount was not included, and they said that most people probably just zip tied it to the front…) seems the kit lane shark sells for generic valves doesn’t bother to include things like quick connect, or check the valves they say are needed on the full kit. But then again, I ”saved” almost $200 by saying I already had a 3rd position! 🤨


Dan said:

Here is the page from the install instructions for the LP 3rd function.

seems simple enough, shows pump out to the valve, then up to the loader block. But now I need to reverse that so it doesn’t take everything from the loader when I turn it on.
Not sure the hoses will reach if I just swap them around, so might have to get some more. Already had to do that for the return hose, since I want to keep my ability to remove the loader if necessary…

I’m also not entirely sure what your pic is.. from context, I would assume it’s some type of manual diverter valve? so there would be a hose in, and two out?

I’ve already got all this other stuff, might as well finish it.

I will probably get rear remotes at some point… I’d like to get tilt and twist for my 3 point in the future. Resetting while grading is getting old quickly.. 😁

Thanks!
Lane Shark is quite clear - they DO NOT reccomend running the machine off of standard temotes. If they did you could simplly use the thord finction outlets. Thats how they started and their customers educated them on the problems that creates.

The picture is a manual diverter valve. It swirches the one inlet to one of two outlets. The inactive outlet is blocked. I have one on my L3901 for operating a set of continuos flow outlets for a log splitter. It would be perfect for turning the Lane Shark on and off. If you have your heart set on electric control here is a $100 12V version. All it needs is some hose and a maintained SPST switch.

$_1.jpeg


The Lane Shark is a nice implement but IMO they have made the hookup way too expensive and complicated.

Dan
 
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Jasonized

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Okay.. so… the switch box appears to be incompatible with the land pride 3rd function.
not because they don’t recommend it, but because the current version of the 3rd remote does in fact switch ground. The land shark box apparently switches power.

I talked with them before purchasing it… the reason they say you can’t use a standard remote is because it has to go through the valve twice; once up, then once back. The solution they sell is a new return line that goes directly back to tank. So you only use the pressure side of the remote, and they claim that “fixes” the issue.

But now I guess I’ll have to get rear remotes or something… at least that will also fix the priority issue, since it will be downstream of the loader functions!
 
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TheOldHokie

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Okay.. so… the switch box appears to be incompatible with the land pride 3rd function.
not because they don’t recommend it, but because the current version of the 3rd remote does in fact switch ground. The land shark box apparently switches power.

I talked with them before purchasing it… the reason they say you can’t use a standard remote is because it has to go through the valve twice; once up, then once back. The solution they sell is a new return line that goes directly back to tank. So you only use the pressure side of the remote, and they claim that “fixes” the issue.

But now I guess I’ll have to get rear remotes or something… at least that will also fix the priority issue, since it will be downstream of the loader functions!
Are you trying to make this difficult? Return the switch box and put a 3 way selector valve on the loader valve power beyond along with their dedicated tank return. ALL problems solved and done!.

Dan
 
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Jasonized

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Are you trying to make this difficult? Return the switch box and put a 3 way selector valve on the loader valve power beyond along with their dedicated tank return. ALL problems solved and done!.

Dan
and that’s what I will probably do now…. I don’t think they take returns, but I have a call in to them about it. But isn’t that a “diverter” valve? They also claim it’s not compatible with diverter valves…. Argh.

this has been a “learning” experience for sure….

I still want it to work, though.. so away we go, on yet another search for parts…

Thanks!
 

TheOldHokie

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and that’s what I will probably do now…. I don’t think they take returns, but I have a call in to them about it. But isn’t that a “diverter” valve? They also claim it’s not compatible with diverter valves…. Argh.

this has been a “learning” experience for sure….

I still want it to work, though.. so away we go, on yet another search for parts…

Thanks!
They say a lot of things. Yes its a diverter valve but not in the sense they are talking about. It is doing exactly what their switch box and third function does except it does it more effectively - its much higher flow. Lane Shark sells the same thing but "they say" its "only for use on tractors without a third function or remotes". Bullshit.

Remember - if used as they recommend the Lane Shark is going to divert the entire hydraulic flow to the motor and return it straight to tank. That disables all functions downstream of the diversion point.

As for operator convenience here is where I mounted my selector. The second picture is from the Lane Shark site. Look familiar?

Before you start buying parts perhaps you should work out the circuit and plumbing.

Dan

20210926_125022.jpg


Valve_Kit_Web.png
 
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