Wiring in lane shark on l3902…

GreensvilleJay

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Maybe I'm missing something but the cutter is a hydraulic motor with a blade, so it makes ZERo sense as to WHY you can run it off rear remotes. My current tractor ran some kind of hydraulic motor to get small squares up to 3rd story of a barn for 5-6 years, so I'd like to know WHY,aside for LS making $$$ on their 'install kit'. Some (most ) motors you can plumb drain into return line ,at least for unidirectional motors.
 

TheOldHokie

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Maybe I'm missing something but the cutter is a hydraulic motor with a blade, so it makes ZERo sense as to WHY you can run it off rear remotes. My current tractor ran some kind of hydraulic motor to get small squares up to 3rd story of a barn for 5-6 years, so I'd like to know WHY,aside for LS making $$$ on their 'install kit'. Some (most ) motors you can plumb drain into return line ,at least for unidirectional motors.
Thats exactly what Lane Shark tried in the early days. I believe the central concern is/was heat generated by the return path. Since you just learned of its existence you might want to check some of the old discussions.

Edit: As pointed out in another thread the open tank return is also needed to allow the motor to coast down when the control valve is shut off. If using a normal remote (tandem center DA cylinder spool) the tank return circuit would also close and bring the entire rotating mass to an immediate and jarring halt.

Dan
 
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Joisey

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I am currently looking at the hydraulic/electrical hookup for a LS2 Lane Shark for my L47. There is basically zero information available from the manufacturers website and speaking to their "experts" on the phone is akin to talking to a stone. They know NOTHING.
 
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TheOldHokie

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I am currently looking at the hydraulic/electrical hookup for a LS2 Lane Shark for my L47. There is basically zero information available from the manufacturers website and speaking to their "experts" on the phone is akin to talking to a stone. They know NOTHING.
Most of what you need to know has been covered here:

  1. You need a valve to divert pump flow to the LS. You want the highest flow with least resistance you can get. A diverter of the appropriate sixe installed in the power beyond loop anywhere after the loader and third function is inexpensive and very effective. Pick your poison basef on personal preference - manually or electrically operated.
  2. You need a direct return from the LS to tank. That can be as simple as a tee placed in the tank return of the loader valve.
  3. Size supply and return hoses to match the flow your tractor can produce.
Dan
 

GreensvilleJay

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From what I've read here( 2 new owners...both totally frustrated.) and ZERO online/phone support.. I certainly would NOT be buying the LS product. Having to ask ANYONE else in the World ' Can you help me ?' is really,really sad
Something like this should have GREAT documentation, online 'help/ FAQ' section maybe a video or at least a real human that KNOWS how to assist in getting their kutter 'up and running' in less than 2 hours.
 

Jasonized

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Nope, no reason to have documentation! Obviously anyone who should be using our stuff shouldn’t have problems installing it. Really! 😏🤨

so far, adding a diverter valve sounds like the best choice, even though they say no.. which doen’t make any sense. The key seems to be adding the separate return line to the tank, to reduce resistance and heat build up.

Well, they do have online videos on YouTube…. Of course those are not the models being sold now, and on models of tractors you don’t have, using 3rd functions you don’t have, but hey! You get the idea! 🙄

What I have pulled together from here and from playing on the machine, is that they don’t expect you to install it yourself. They expect you to buy their version of a valve kit, and have your dealer install it. You noticed that they only sell through dealers, right? They’ll ship you the valve kits, but the dealer has to purchase the shark itself.

I had a dealer drop ship it to me. I’ve been learning quickly, and the install isn’t actually hard if you know tractors. I’m a robotics engineer, but haven’t had any experience with tractors or hydraulics before. My main problem right now is I’m rural, so getting parts is usually a week delay. Gives me way to much time to think… Yay.

Also, the switch they send you is set for switching power. I recommend that you check your existing valve, to see if power or ground is being switched. On my current gen land pride valve, they switch ground. So the box they send doesn’t work…. In fairness, when I called them they did say they’d seen that once before, but engineering is looking at it. Kinda, maybe.

actually, if you go the diverter route, you could use an electric one, and use their box to power it, if you want. Actually, I may just go that route, instead of reworking my valve plumbing. Anyone have the best 12v electric option for a continuous flow valve?

Thanks in advance!

edit: after talking with them about the switch, they immediately shipped me one that they expect to solve the issue. Ground, of course, but at least they responded quickly.
 
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Jasonized

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That’s funny…. Of course, you can’t buy that on the website.. 😏

I called them yesterday and explained the problem. They have just shipped a replacement switch that will work by switching ground. So I can’t fault customer service for this!

now, just moving the valve lower in the chain…

Thanks all, it’s been interesting and informative. I will most likely add a diverter of some kind when I get around to adding rear remotes.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I, for one, would like to know WHEN you've it it 'up and running' and how LONG it took from when you bought it.
Hopefully it'll cut the weeds that'll have grown another 2 feet in the meantime ;)
 

TheOldHokie

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Nope, no reason to have documentation! Obviously anyone who should be using our stuff shouldn’t have problems installing it. Really! 😏🤨

so far, adding a diverter valve sounds like the best choice, even though they say no.. which doen’t make any sense. The key seems to be adding the separate return line to the tank, to reduce resistance and heat build up.

Well, they do have online videos on YouTube…. Of course those are not the models being sold now, and on models of tractors you don’t have, using 3rd functions you don’t have, but hey! You get the idea! 🙄

What I have pulled together from here and from playing on the machine, is that they don’t expect you to install it yourself. They expect you to buy their version of a valve kit, and have your dealer install it. You noticed that they only sell through dealers, right? They’ll ship you the valve kits, but the dealer has to purchase the shark itself.

I had a dealer drop ship it to me. I’ve been learning quickly, and the install isn’t actually hard if you know tractors. I’m a robotics engineer, but haven’t had any experience with tractors or hydraulics before. My main problem right now is I’m rural, so getting parts is usually a week delay. Gives me way to much time to think… Yay.

Also, the switch they send you is set for switching power. I recommend that you check your existing valve, to see if power or ground is being switched. On my current gen land pride valve, they switch ground. So the box they send doesn’t work…. In fairness, when I called them they did say they’d seen that once before, but engineering is looking at it. Kinda, maybe.

actually, if you go the diverter route, you could use an electric one, and use their box to power it, if you want. Actually, I may just go that route, instead of reworking my valve plumbing. Anyone have the best 12v electric option for a continuous flow valve?

Thanks in advance!
Best is hard to claim. Heres one at a reasonable price. Be aware it has BSPP ports.



Dan
 

TheOldHokie

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Here is an installation video of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit on an LA525. First person that can accurately diagram the hydrauluc circuit of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit and explain how the video narration is wrong gets an Atta Boy. Extra credit if you can explain why the check valve is required using this new scheme.

Dan

 

Jasonized

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I, for one, would like to know WHEN you've it it 'up and running' and how LONG it took from when you bought it.
Hopefully it'll cut the weeds that'll have grown another 2 feet in the meantime ;)
Here‘s hoping. Looks like I should get the new switch by next Friday. Should have the plumbing rearranged by then, so may next weekend.

Ordered May 9, got switch and hoses a week later. Took another 1.5 weeks to get the mower, now keep waiting with ups delays between install tries. Delays at this point are mostly shipping delays, and figuring out which parts to get. Local hydraulics shops don’t carry matching fittings, it seems, rural, not common to use parts, etc. One implement used BSPP connectors, for example. Can blame them for not making the kit right, can’t blame them for shipping delays.

the interesting thing here is that the kit that comes for the WRlong valve is massively different than the generic one! WRlong kit comes with qc on both ends, check valves that cross lines both at the motor and qc, mounting brackets, etc. They claimed the parts aren’t compatible with other 3rd functions. Hmm.. how can a mounting bracket or qc be compatible with only one type of valve.. think… think… 🤨

I will definitely post when I get it up and running.

Thanks!
 

Jasonized

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Here is an installation video of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit on an LA525. First person that can accurately diagram the hydrauluc circuit of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit and explain how the video narration is wrong gets an Atta Boy. Extra credit if you can explain why the check valve is required using this new scheme.

Dan

Watched that one while waiting for my kit to arrive. There are so many questions…. Basically, they have parts “required” that they don’t sell with the “generic” kit… so how can they be required???

And I don’t see anything in the kit that “only” works with the one valve…. So many questions…
 

Jasonized

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Here is an installation video of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit on an LA525. First person that can accurately diagram the hydrauluc circuit of the new Lane Shark C-flow kit and explain how the video narration is wrong gets an Atta Boy. Extra credit if you can explain why the check valve is required using this new scheme.
This video is one of the reasons I was so confused when I first got my kit, since it didn’t have any of the “required” parts (like check valves!). Since I am new to hydraulics, I have to figure things out before they make sense. And this wasn‘t making sense.

I can see a reason the the check valve between power and return, to allow the motor to spin down if the valve closes. The one on the return line is a bit confusing, can’t see a use for it.

as near as I can tell, without the check valve between the motor whips, when the power is turned off, the motor wI’ll apply suction to the inlet, maybe cavitate while slowing to a stop? Will that cause issues? Or is it even a wild weird concern? Like I said, new to hydraulics..
 

TheOldHokie

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This video is one of the reasons I was so confused when I first got my kit, since it didn’t have any of the “required” parts (like check valves!). Since I am new to hydraulics, I have to figure things out before they make sense. And this wasn‘t making sense.

I can see a reason the the check valve between power and return, to allow the motor to spin down if the valve closes. The one on the return line is a bit confusing, can’t see a use for it.

as near as I can tell, without the check valve between the motor whips, when the power is turned off, the motor wI’ll apply suction to the inlet, maybe cavitate while slowing to a stop? Will that cause issues? Or is it even a wild weird concern? Like I said, new to hydraulics..
Confusing for sure. Here is the circuit as they install it.. What about it jumps off the page and contradicts everything they are saying? I am coming to believe the Lane Shark designers are hydraulically challenged.

Dan

LaneSharkC-flow.png
 

Jasonized

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Confusing for sure. Here is the circuit as they install it.. What about it jumps off the page and contradicts everything they are saying? I am coming to believe the Lane Shark designers are hydraulically challenged.

Dan

View attachment 103518
hmm.. Are you trying to confuse me, or am I totally out of it? The return to tank line from the loader valve shouldn’t exist, since it flows through the 3rd function? Isn’t PB just a name for where the flow leaves the current device heading to tank, as a hint where to add downstream devices?

Isn’t there another check valve just before t’ing into the output from the 3rd function?

But I’m guessing you mean that they have it tied onto the exit of the valve, which means it could still go through another set of remotes instead of directly to the tank…
 
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TheOldHokie

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er beyond and tank are two entirely different circuits. Inhave no idea why the Lane Shark esigner
hmm.. Are you trying to confuse me, or am I totally out of it? The return to tank line from the loader valve shouldn’t exist, since it flows through the 3rd function? Isn’t PB just a name for where the flow leaves the current device heading to tank, as a hint where to add downstream devices?

I also don’t know that symbol for the check valve (assuming that’s what it is), but is it backwards? And, isn’t there another check valve just before t’ing into the output from the 3rd function?

But I’m guessing you mean that they have it tied onto the exit of the valve, which means it could still go through another set of remotes instead of directly to the tank…
Now you are learning why I said its imperative you understand the tractor circuit before diving into the deep end with the Lane Shark. I am not trying to confuse you - I am trying to educate you.

Power beyond and tank return are two different outlet circuits on the loader valve and they are there for good reasons. The power beyond on the loder valve does not return to tank - it is inline with ALL downstream valves (3pt, remotes, etc.) and supplies pressurized oil to them. The third function is in the power beyond branch, does not have a tank return, and its outlet also supplies pressurized oil to all down stream devices. Here is the circuit that I would use. Its simpler and avoids all of the potential for unwanted and potentially dangerous or damaging hydraulic interactions inherent in the vendors plumbing.

Dan

LaneSharkC-flowV2.png
 

ken erickson

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Now you are learning why I said up front its imperative to understand the base tractor circuit. I am not trying to confuse. I am trying ti educate you. Power beyond and tank are two entirely different circuits. Inhave no idea why the Lane Shark esigner

Now you are learning why I said its imperative you understand the tractor circuit before diving into the deep end with the Lane Shark. I am not trying to confuse you - I am trying to educate you.

Power beyond and tank return are two different outlet circuits on the loader valve and they are there for good reasons. The power beyond on the valve does not return to tank - it is inline with ALL downstream valves (3pt, remotes, etc.) and supplies pressurized oil to them. The third function is in teh power beyond branch, does not have a tank return, and its outlet also supplies pressurized oil to all down stream devices. Here is the circuit that I would use. Its simpler and avoids all of the potential for unwanted and potentially dangerous or damaging hydraulic interactions inherent in the vendors plumbing.

Dan

View attachment 103526
Dan,
I am a complete novice when it comes to hydraulic's and have learned a ton from your posts! Thank you .

My question after watching the video and now seeing your redesigned hydraulic diagram is how does it protect the motor and allow it to wind down without a sudden stop of hydraulic fluid when the third function valve is closed?

After looking at your diagram again, I THINK I understand now that by closing the third function valve with the motor still spinning would simply dump the fluid into the tank and the let the motor wind down?
 
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TheOldHokie

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Dan,
I am a complete novice when it comes to hydraulic's and have learned a ton from your posts! Thank you .

My question after watching the video and now seeing your redesigned hydraulic diagram is how does it protect the motor and allow it to wind down without a sudden stop of hydraulic fluid when the third function valve is closed?
When the oil supply from the work port on the third function is shut off the inertial energy of the mower turns the motor into a "pump". The output of that "pump" is open to tank so there is no resistance to rotation.

Here is the circuit I have been advocating. Its exactly what Lane Shark sells for tractors "without remotes or third function". That of course assumes they are connecting the motor return to tank and not power beyond. As you can see that means that while the Lane Shark is running the 3pt and rear remotes are disabled.

Dan

LaneSharkC-flowV3.png
 
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Jasonized

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When the oil supply from the work port on the third function is shut off the inertial energy of the mower turns the motor into a "pump". The output of that "pump" is open to tank so there is no resistance to rotation.

Here is the circuit I have been advocating. Its exactly what Lane Shark sells for tractors "without remotes or third function". That of course assumes they are connecting the motor return to tank and not power beyond. As you can see that means that while the Lane Shark is running the 3pt and rear remotes are disabled.

Dan


View attachment 103528
I've been doing some more digging and reading, and I was wrong, there is a return to tank line as well as the PB line on the loader valve. However... The return to tank line is only used when there is an over-pressure situation, such as stalling a valve. Otherwise it all goes out the PB port, which eventually must return to tank. So your final PB on the diverter should be connected to the return to tank. Well, at some point. If you have more valves farther downstream, they must eventually connect to the tank.

The line from the loader valve to tank is controlled by an over pressure device (usually a spring valve). (This is also how people are "boosting" the hydraulic pressure in the system by adding a spacer under the pressure spring, so it takes more pressure to hit the release during a stall.)

And yes, everything beyond the motor will be deactivated when in use. Hence the fact that the way Land Pride had me install the 3rd function (ahead of the loader valve) will cause me to re-plumb it in order for me to make this work. Or, I can purchase a diverter valve and just install it right before the tank, as the last device in the stream. Which I still might do. I have a week to overthink this before my replacement switch arrives, after all!

Cheers!
 

TheOldHokie

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I've been doing some more digging and reading, and I was wrong, there is a return to tank line as well as the PB line on the loader valve. However... The return to tank line is only used when there is an over-pressure situation, such as stalling a valve. Otherwise it all goes out the PB port, which eventually must return to tank. So your final PB on the diverter should be connected to the return to tank. Well, at some point. If you have more valves farther downstream, they must eventually connect to the tank.

The line from the loader valve to tank is controlled by an over pressure device (usually a spring valve). (This is also how people are "boosting" the hydraulic pressure in the system by adding a spacer under the pressure spring, so it takes more pressure to hit the release during a stall.)

And yes, everything beyond the motor will be deactivated when in use. Hence the fact that the way Land Pride had me install the 3rd function (ahead of the loader valve) will cause me to re-plumb it in order for me to make this work. Or, I can purchase a diverter valve and just install it right before the tank, as the last device in the stream. Which I still might do. I have a week to overthink this before my replacement switch arrives, after all!

Cheers!
Maybe try listening and asking for a while instead of teaching.

The tank return on a power beyond valve carries overpressure flow AND in most cases oil returned on the work ports. This isolates the actuators from downstream devices which is what you generally want.

In the case of the loader valve on an LA525 (and most other Kubota loaders) the lift spool sends return oil to power beyond which puts all downstream devices in series with the loader lift cylinders, That has the potential for undesirable actuator interactions.

The same is true of the third function valve,

On a LA525 loader the return oil from the curl function is also sent to tank and PB is blocked.

On a LA525 the return oil from the extend function is redirected to the base end of the cylinders for regenerative speed up of the cylinders (aka fast dump) and PB is blocked.

Those are all interactions that Lane Shark never mentions.

Dan
 
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