skid steer starting problems

[sams]

I have a case 1825b skid steer that has a v1505-e Kubota engine in it. Purchased from a neighbor, he said the engine ran great, just had hyd. pump issues. After reinstalling the pump, could not get the engine to start. Determined the injection pump was weak and was not popping the injectors. I had the injection pump rebuilt, along with the injectors and starter which seemed to be dragging. Also replaced the fuel kill selonid and the lift pump. Since getting all the repaired parts back, I have removed the hyd. pump thinking it was dragging my cranking speed. I have bled the fuel system and even removed an injector and hooked it back to the injection pump outside the head and cranked it over to ensure that the system was bled and that the injector was breaking out correctly. I have tested all the glow plugs and confirmed that they are working. While cranking I get a lot of smoke but it will not pick up and run. Without the glow plugs on the motor will either lock on the slightest amount of either. Therefore I feel that the compression is at least good enough to start the engine. I have the skid steer in a heated shop and feel that even a low compression engine with glow plugs should start in these conditions. Looking for some advice on what to try next. Any help would be appreciated. Curious if anyone knows the cranking rpm that that motor is supposed to have.
Thanks Sam

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Check the air cleaner?
I assume new fresh fuel is being used?
New battery?
Run the glow plugs longer.
Avoid using ether, Kubota engines don't like it.
Is the smoke coming out ash white?
When you reinstalled the pump did you put back all the shims?
When cranking does moving the throttle change the sound or the amount of smoke?

 

[sams]

Wolfman
Thanks for the reply. I am not pulling air through the air cleaner, just straight in the engine. Drained the tank and filled with fresh fuel. Got two 4d batteries on it with a charger. Got a sticker on the dash says 20 second max on the plugs, didn't know if running them longer would cause them any damage. The smoke is a dark greyish. Moving the throttle makes little difference on the amount of smoke. As for the shims, they stayed on the block, I never removed them.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

You won't hurt the glow plugs of you run them longer try 40 to 60 sec and see if that will helps you out.
You might even have a bad one or two, Have you pulled them out and put power to them and make sure they heat up?

 

[hodge]

Wolfman
Thanks for the reply. I am not pulling air through the air cleaner, just straight in the engine. Drained the tank and filled with fresh fuel. Got two 4d batteries on it with a charger. Got a sticker on the dash says 20 second max on the plugs, didn't know if running them longer would cause them any damage. The smoke is a dark greyish. Moving the throttle makes little difference on the amount of smoke. As for the shims, they stayed on the block, I never removed them.

I doubt if ether (in moderation) will hurt it- it is non-turbo, and Case's even came with ether injection for starting.
It sounds like either you still have air in the system, or you aren't pulling fuel. I dealt with a similar situation on our Kubota powered bobcat last winter, and I first thought that the fuel was gelled. Long story short, there was a hole or split in the suction tube in the fuel tank, so it wouldn't pull enough fuel in. Just enough to try and fire and smoke. I ran new fuel line from the tank, installed a new filter setup (the original was a 3 piece glass filter housing that was chipped and almost impossible to get together without leaking air), a new bulb primer (the old one had cracks), and new line then to the lift pump. Also installed a new lift pump. Nothing worked until replacing that fuel line in the tank. Anywhere it can suck air, it will not get enough fuel to run.
I don't know an exact RPM, but diesels do need to spin fast enough for the compression of air to build heat. Being in a heated shop, unless it is spinnin noticeably slow, I don't think that is your primary problem.
On my Dodge truck, I've pressurized the tank to bleed air to the injectors. I assume that you could do this on a skid steer, if you can get enough seal at the fuel tank opening. It would also probably indicate an air leak in the fuel system, if there is one.

 

[kuboman]

How many hours on the engine. The fact that it is smoking and not firing I would wonder the glow plugs are weak or you may even have a one bad one. How do you know they are ok? Do you know for a fact that they are working when you try to start?
As for either.....one small dose will kill these engines. I speak from experience. One small wiff will kill these engines.
The fact that the injection pump needed rebuilding tells me that the rest of the engine will be close behind. I am betting that it is just plain old worn out.

 

[sams]

Thanks to all for the responses. The engine has 3200 hours which is several, but not excessive. It may not have the compression it once had, but I would think that that is not enough to be worn completely out. I took all the glow plugs out and checked them against a battery; they all began to glow in about 4 to 5 seconds. I will definitely try holding them longer to see if that makes any difference. As for the fuel lines, I have noticed that they are pretty stiff. I assumed that since it was popping the injector that there was not an issue, but maybe it is sucking some air somewhere. I get some line and replace it to eliminate that possibility. Thanks for the hint about pressurizing the tank to revel cracks in the lines, I give it a try.

 

[kuboman]

The fact that it smokes when you crank it indicates that it is not a fuel supply problem. I am sure that your glow plugs are fine but is your controller heating them in the machine? Either it is glow plugs or poor compression.