Rear Remote for Woods Backhoe

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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I am looking to add a Woods backhoe to my L3240 HSTC. I also will be installing a Kubota 3rd function valve kit on my LA723 loader to allow me to use the grapple. From my research I simply create a "loop" on the Power Beyond circuit of my loader valve. Sound like I come out of the loader control Power Beyond port, travel up to the 3rd function valve, from the return of the 3rd function valve instead of going to the tank I would then travel back to the rear of the machine for the backhoe, and then finally back to the "tank" on the hydraulic system. When the backhoe is removed the rear lines get plugged into one another.

This sounds fine but will require me to get some hoses made. Is there a rear hydraulic accessory offered by Kubota for the lines instead? I have read about "1st", "2nd", and "3rd" function remotes but they all seem to be reliant on a new control to operate. All I really need is a passive pressure line and return that is always on I think.

Any clarification would be apprechiated.

Thanks
 

Kennyd4110

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You don't want a "remote" to hook up the backhoe, so ignore the 1st", "2nd", and "3rd" function remotes" products.

What you want (and described very well in you first paragraph) is called a "power beyond" loop that is made with hoses, I don't believe Kubota has a "kit" for this, but Woods may.
 

torch

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Each stage (except the last stage) of a power beyond loop must have an inlet from the previous stage, a PB outlet to the next stage, and a return to the tank. The last stage only requires an inlet from the previous stage and a return to the tank. Every stage needs it's own relief valve.
 

TheOldHokie

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Each stage (except the last stage) of a power beyond loop must have an inlet from the previous stage, a PB outlet to the next stage, and a return to the tank. The last stage only requires an inlet from the previous stage and a return to the tank. Every stage needs it's own relief valve.
As long as everything is rated for full system pressure you do not need a relief in anything other then the first valve in the loop. That relief will protect all downstream devices. I am sure the Grand L has it's own relief somewhere in the system and if it is ahead of the PB loop you don't need a relief in the first valve either.

What you commonly have is a separate tank return for each valve in the PB loop. The Kubota 3rd function valve and the backhoe valve won't have one because the engineers have deemed it unnecessary for the application and the T ports on those valves can handle full system pressure.

Dan
 

joemahoney79

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Thanks for the info. Its a pretty small tractor so I am going to go with the Power Beyond single loop method.
 

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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Hello, I was mapping this project out and wanted to confirm a couple of items.

In summary I am adding a factory Kubota 3rd function kit to my L723 loader. This will come off the power beyond port on the loader control. From the 3rd function outlet I will then have a return line that will normally head back toward the loader control. It seems like it would be cleaner for me to have a custom hose made to run that all the way back to the rear of the tractor to provide the hydro for the backhoe. Then the last line comes from the rear of the tractor and connects where the 3rd function "return line" would normally go. Does this sound like the cleanest install? I will be wasting one of the lines from the 3rd function kit but it will eliminate another coupling.

Couple of other questions....

1. Will I need a short loop hose to connect the two 3rd function loader ports when not in use? I would think so to send the fluid back to the rear ports

2. Some of the 3rd function kits have an activation button. Will this need to be on to use the rear hydros

3. Will the rear ports need to be looped as well?

Thanks
 

TheOldHokie

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Myersville, MD
Hello, I was mapping this project out and wanted to confirm a couple of items.

In summary I am adding a factory Kubota 3rd function kit to my L723 loader. This will come off the power beyond port on the loader control. From the 3rd function outlet I will then have a return line that will normally head back toward the loader control. It seems like it would be cleaner for me to have a custom hose made to run that all the way back to the rear of the tractor to provide the hydro for the backhoe. Then the last line comes from the rear of the tractor and connects where the 3rd function "return line" would normally go. Does this sound like the cleanest install? I will be wasting one of the lines from the 3rd function kit but it will eliminate another coupling.

Couple of other questions....

1. Will I need a short loop hose to connect the two 3rd function loader ports when not in use? I would think so to send the fluid back to the rear ports

2. Some of the 3rd function kits have an activation button. Will this need to be on to use the rear hydros

3. Will the rear ports need to be looped as well?

Thanks
The third function valve returns pump pressure to the tractor Aka power beyond. You reroute that to the backhoe valve and from there back to the tractor. When the backhoe is removed you loop those two hoses together where they disconnect from the valve. Typically use a male and a female on the hoses to make it simple and GI proof.

I don't have a backhoe but I do have a log splitter that requires the same sort of power beyond loop and here is how I am doing it - still under construction but getting close to the use permit. The left set of outlets are the Power Beyond hookup - red is pump out and blue is pump return. The other 3 sets of outlets are used with the conventional rear remote valves controlled from the operators station. The knob on the right is a 3 way selector valve that turns the power beyond outlets on and off and eliminates the need for looping the hoses together. To use the splitter I simply get off the tractor, plug the hoses into the power beyond outlets, and pull the knob out to start flow. When I am done with the splitter I push the knob in to shut off flow and then disconnect the hoses.

Dan
 

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joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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RI
Dan,

Very clean install. Waiting for the "In Stock" 3rd Function kit from Kubota which is now already 4 weeks in but supply chain issues are everywhere. Once I have those pieces and instructions I plan on finalizing my hose setup/routing.

Thanks
 

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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RI
Revisiting this thread now that I have received my Kubota 3rd function kit. From the attached diagrams from the install set it appears that they intend to intercept the "inlet" circuit from the hydro pump before it and re-direct it to the 3rd function valve. From there the "power beyond" port of the 3rd function valve gets routed as the new "inlet" to the loader valve. Both have independent "tank" lines achieved by a new hard line with tee.

With all of that know what would be the best strategy for a rear power beyond circuit for my Woods backhoe? My thought is to route the power beyond hose from the 3rd function valve back to the rear of the tractor and then looping it back to the loader valve.

The concern there is that this will result in a lot of tubing and fittings before the loader valve. Will this impact performance?
 

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TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA520, B7200DT/LA1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
507
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Myersville, MD
Revisiting this thread now that I have received my Kubota 3rd function kit. From the attached diagrams from the install set it appears that they intend to intercept the "inlet" circuit from the hydro pump before it and re-direct it to the 3rd function valve. From there the "power beyond" port of the 3rd function valve gets routed as the new "inlet" to the loader valve. Both have independent "tank" lines achieved by a new hard line with tee.

With all of that know what would be the best strategy for a rear power beyond circuit for my Woods backhoe? My thought is to route the power beyond hose from the 3rd function valve back to the rear of the tractor and then looping it back to the loader valve.

The concern there is that this will result in a lot of tubing and fittings before the loader valve. Will this impact performance?
As long as you maintain the size on the hose and fittings you will not see a difference. At most you will add a little additional heat to the oil and that's likely so small as to be immeasurable.

Dan
 

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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As far as the power beyond circuitry is there any advantage/disadvantage for putting the rear takeoffs for the backhoe before or after the 3rd function valve?
 

TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA520, B7200DT/LA1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
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Myersville, MD
As far as the power beyond circuitry is there any advantage/disadvantage for putting the rear takeoffs for the backhoe before or after the 3rd function valve?
I dont see any. The usual concern is priority - you dont want your upstream valve blocking the operation of a downstream valve that you need more than the upstream valve. In this case the loader and backhoe are not going to be in use simultaneously so there is no real chance of that sort of conflict.

Dan
 

TheOldHokie

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Myersville, MD
As far as the power beyond circuitry is there any advantage/disadvantage for putting the rear takeoffs for the backhoe before or after the 3rd function valve?
As far as the power beyond circuitry is there any advantage/disadvantage for putting the rear takeoffs for the backhoe before or after the 3rd function valve?
I will add that this is an interesting arrangement. I think you will find that the 3rd function valve is actually a vanilla solenoid valve mounted on a subplate with an inlet relief. The tank port on the subplate is only used for over pressure oil and the valve itself does not actually have a power beyond port - that port is actually a tank port. When the 3rd function valve is actuated all inlet flow gets diverted to the third function cylinder and waste oil returned from the 3rd function cylinders is sent to the "power beyond" port and from there to the loader inlet. That puts the loader cylinders and 3rd function cylinders in series with each other. If I am correct in that analysis stalling the 3rd function (e.g. grapple) will also stall the loader.

Dan
 

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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I will add that this is an interesting arrangement. I think you will find that the 3rd function valve is actually a vanilla solenoid valve mounted on a subplate with an inlet relief. The tank port on the subplate is only used for over pressure oil and the valve itself does not actually have a power beyond port - that port is actually a tank port. When the 3rd function valve is actuated all inlet flow gets diverted to the third function cylinder and waste oil returned from the 3rd function cylinders is sent to the "power beyond" port and from there to the loader inlet. That puts the loader cylinders and 3rd function cylinders in series with each other. If I am correct in that analysis stalling the 3rd function (e.g. grapple) will also stall the loader.

Dan
The ports on the the "third function assembly" are as follows:

1) "Inlet" hose that is connected to the tractors hydraulic pump
2) "Power Beyond" hose which connects to the loader valve (formally fed directly from hydraulic pump)
3) "Tank" hose which connects to the sump via a new hard formed line with an added tee. Both the loader and the third function assembly return to the sump via this line
4) "3rd Function Hose A" connects to the hard lines that run up to the new boom coupler A
5) "3rd Function Hose B" connects to the hard lines that run up to the new boom coupler B
 

TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA520, B7200DT/LA1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
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Myersville, MD
The ports on the the "third function assembly" are as follows:

1) "Inlet" hose that is connected to the tractors hydraulic pump
2) "Power Beyond" hose which connects to the loader valve (formally fed directly from hydraulic pump)
3) "Tank" hose which connects to the sump via a new hard formed line with an added tee. Both the loader and the third function assembly return to the sump via this line
4) "3rd Function Hose A" connects to the hard lines that run up to the new boom coupler A
5) "3rd Function Hose B" connects to the hard lines that run up to the new boom coupler B
I got that. My point is the "power beyond" port on tje 3rd function is not a true power beyond. It is actually the tank port on the solenoid valve. The solenoid valve tank port is connected internally to the "power beyond" port on the subplate and a relief cartridge connects IN to Tank. Everything is done in the subplate - see sketch.

Dan
 

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joemahoney79

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Aug 3, 2021
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Ok I have had a couple of hydraulic hoses made and my plan is to route the hydraulic circuit as follows:

1. From the pump up front I will route back to rear of the tractor for the Woods BH80x backhoe
2. From the rear of the tractor I will run forward to the "inlet" of the 3rd function valve (when not in use the rear lines will be connected, forming a loop)
3. From the 3rd function valve I will run the "power beyond" hose back to the loader valve.

What I am questioning now is when the lines are connected to the backhoe, am I able to run the loader or 3rd function components??

I purchased the backhoe 2nd hand and planned to purge the hydraulic fluid. Based on my research I can do so by disconnecting the return line from the BH and slowly manipulating the controls on the BH while letting the fluid drain from the return line into a bucket. If this is the case the BH will not return fluid when all controls are at rest and therefore no pressurized fluid would be available upfront for the loader or 3rd function valve.

It seems like I would have to disconnect and bypass the BH aux lines every time I switch between using it and the loader?
 
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TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA520, B7200DT/LA1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
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Myersville, MD
Ok I have had a couple of hydraulic hoses made and my plan is to route the hydraulic circuit as follows:

1. From the pump up front I will route back to rear of the tractor for the Woods BH80x backhoe
2. From the rear of the tractor I will run forward to the "inlet" of the 3rd function valve (when not in use the rear lines will be connected, forming a loop)
3. From the 3rd function valve I will run the "power beyond" hose back to the loader valve.

What I am questioning now is when the lines are connected to the backhoe, am I able to run the loader or 3rd function components??

I purchased the backhoe 2nd hand and planned to purge the hydraulic fluid. Based on my research I can do so by disconnecting the return line from the BH and slowly manipulating the controls on the BH while letting the fluid drain from the return line into a bucket. If this is the case the BH will not return fluid when all controls are at rest and therefore no pressurized fluid would be available upfront for the loader or 3rd function valve.

It seems like I would have to disconnect and bypass the BH aux lines every time I switch between using it and the loader?
Your system is open center and fluid flows from the pump through each valve in the chain. You will be able to operate the loader with the backhoe connected.

Dan
 

joemahoney79

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L3240 HSTC
Aug 3, 2021
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Dan, thanks for the info. That is good news and glad I checked. My plan to "feather" the backhoe controls to slowly purge fluid into a bucket would have gotten pretty messy!!
 

TheOldHokie

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L3901/LA520, B7200DT/LA1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Apr 6, 2021
507
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43
Myersville, MD
Dan, thanks for the info. That is good news and glad I checked. My plan to "feather" the backhoe controls to slowly purge fluid into a bucket would have gotten pretty messy!!
I know nothing about your hoe and tractor but putting the hoe first in the loop strikes me as a poor idea. I would think loader to 3rd function to hoe and back to tractor would be better.

Dan