I was given an L295DT, they had just replaced the injector pump with a rebuilt model, but they did not put any shims in it, It runs but has a pretty substantial engine noise that sounds like pre-detonation ignition knock at low speeds. I am guessing that i need to add shims to correct the fuel injection timing. I have seen the procedure for this in other posts, but I can not get to the window to see the flywheel, they bolted the front end loader to the bell housing over the window, and then welded braces to the loader bracket so that it is essentially welded to the tractor, I would have to cut braces to get to it and then have to remove the loader. So while I know it is not the best option I would like to know how many shims would probably have been on this engine, I intend to put those in to see if it improves before I start cutting off things... I bought the shop manual, and it states 1.5 degrees per shim, but I am hoping someone with knowledge here can tell me how many would be there normally. Also there seems to be different thickness shims, so is it .15mm that changes it by 1.5 degrees or some other thickness? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Question about injector pump shims on l295 D1301-A
- Thread starter TomLee
- Start date
U should probably take a good look at the manual again.. they "should" have put WHAT thickness of a shim changes it 1.5*.. {u seem to know this & that's why/what your asking?}
If u cant get to the window.. your kinda s.o.l... sure u could pull an injector or glow plug & "try" to find tdc.. Do u have any marks on the flywheel.?? there might be 2.. 1 for tdc & the other for the inj. pump timing.. Take another look at the pulley or harm. balancer.
The ones I've worked on had a "notch" in the pulley..
If none of this is helpful.. add .010" & add or subtract from there..
Are u getting WHITE smoke & knocking.?? BUT a real easy start.. That's because the fuel is being injected way to early & its not burning it all the way..
If u cant get to the window.. your kinda s.o.l... sure u could pull an injector or glow plug & "try" to find tdc.. Do u have any marks on the flywheel.?? there might be 2.. 1 for tdc & the other for the inj. pump timing.. Take another look at the pulley or harm. balancer.
The ones I've worked on had a "notch" in the pulley..
If none of this is helpful.. add .010" & add or subtract from there..
Are u getting WHITE smoke & knocking.?? BUT a real easy start.. That's because the fuel is being injected way to early & its not burning it all the way..
Thanks for the quick response, Yes I did find that .15mm is 1.5 degrees, so it seems like you get one degree for every .1mm. The shim sizes listed in the parts guide are .2, .25, and .30mm. I have ordered one of each thinking that I will try them starting at the smallest and work my way up to see what I have. Have not noticed too much in the way of smoking, white or otherwise, just the intermittent knock and needing glow plugs to start even when it is warm. I am sure that marks are probably on the flywheel, I just cant get to the window to see them. I am hoping someone can tell me what it came with originally figuring that would be a good place to start, I am sure that it came with more than zero originally.
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There is not a standard or usual shim thickness or count with these.
Doing the spill test is the only way to set the timing accurately.
There are no marks on the front pulley to go off of!
I was afraid of that.. {no marks}
& if u cant see the flywheel then spill timing isn't going to do u a bunch of good..
cuz u don't know what engine *'s your on..
& to "find" that, u would need to somehow find TDC, mark the pulley & then segment the pulley into 1/4's, then down from there. to get the specific degrees u were looking for.
THEN go thru the spill timing procedure..
Much easier to put a 1-1.5mm shim in it & see what it does..
& if u cant see the flywheel then spill timing isn't going to do u a bunch of good..
cuz u don't know what engine *'s your on..
& to "find" that, u would need to somehow find TDC, mark the pulley & then segment the pulley into 1/4's, then down from there. to get the specific degrees u were looking for.
THEN go thru the spill timing procedure..
Much easier to put a 1-1.5mm shim in it & see what it does..
Yes, kind of what I am thinking, The fact that they basically welded the front end loader to the tractor, makes getting to the hole to see the flywheel impossible, or at least not worth it to me. Someone told me there was no such thing as a "free" tractor. lol.
I always intended to add shim(s) and try it, mainly to see if it stops the pre detonation knock. It has already gone through 2 head gaskets because of it, i believe. I was hoping to find someone who maybe had done a bunch of these and could say, out of 10 tractors, 7 had x number of shims. That way I could get "close" on the first try. I ordered 3 different sizes of shims, .15, .2 and .25, just wondered which combination to try first. since I have zero there now it is advanced as far as it can go without shaving the block, so I have to decide on 1.5 degrees up to 6 Degrees using the shims i ordered....
I always intended to add shim(s) and try it, mainly to see if it stops the pre detonation knock. It has already gone through 2 head gaskets because of it, i believe. I was hoping to find someone who maybe had done a bunch of these and could say, out of 10 tractors, 7 had x number of shims. That way I could get "close" on the first try. I ordered 3 different sizes of shims, .15, .2 and .25, just wondered which combination to try first. since I have zero there now it is advanced as far as it can go without shaving the block, so I have to decide on 1.5 degrees up to 6 Degrees using the shims i ordered....
Hello Tom
I am parting out a L295 and just sold the injection pump. If you PM me a address I will send you the shims that were under the pump. That will be a good place to start. Are you using Kubota head gaskets or an after-market head gasket? Are you re torquing the cylinder head after running it a short time after replacing the gasket?
Lance
I am parting out a L295 and just sold the injection pump. If you PM me a address I will send you the shims that were under the pump. That will be a good place to start. Are you using Kubota head gaskets or an after-market head gasket? Are you re torquing the cylinder head after running it a short time after replacing the gasket?
Lance
Oh, and yes on the head gasket. The guy who gave it to me, had quite a bit of work done to it first, rebuilt injector pump, new injectors, head gasket, battery, new hydraulic lines, etc. When i got it it was running but with the knock, and it was sending compression into the cooling system and blowing water, so the new head gasket didnt take, when I got the shop manual, one of the things it said about the head gasket was to make sure not to put it in backwards, i figured there was a reason to put that into the manual, and sure enough when I got it apart, the guy had put it in backwards... and I dont think re-torqued it either as the bolts were not that tight. I replaced it again, put it in right and ran it 30 minutes then torqued again. so no more compression leaks, but i figure that the pre detonation will just blow it again, so I am not running it until i get the pump shimmed...
Thanks for all the responses, really appreciate the help!
Thanks for all the responses, really appreciate the help!
Doesn't that engine have an "O" ring on the back left side for an oil passage that has to be there? If it is required it is easy to overlook when installing the head gasket.
good question, the shop manual also says not to forget the oring, but none was there when i removed the head, it does not show on the diagram anywhere in the manual and there was nowhere that I could see that would require it, no indentation or other indication of where one would go, so I did not put one in. Do you know where it was supposed to go?
Thank you 007Kubotaguy! I got the shims, and also everyone else who helped.
First I would like to say that I believe everyone is right, you should definitely use the proper timing technique outlined by others and recommended to time the fuel injection, but in the unlikely event that anyone in the future has an issue where someone inexplicably welds something over the bell housing sight window, and timing it the right way becomes difficult to impossible, the answer to my original question seems to be 4. Admittedly with a sample size of only one tractor... According to the shop manual, the timing for the injector is retarded by about 1.5* degrees for each .15MM shim installed. I ordered several shims in sizes of .2 .25 and .3 and decided to try .45 total for the first test. This is the equivalent of 4.5 degrees of timing and it improved, then 007kubotaguy sent me the shims he took off of a parted out tractor and it had 4 .15MM shims or about 6 degrees. The ones I put on helped, but adding that last .15 mm shim to take it to 6 really smoothed things out. So on to the next issue, again thanks everyone for the help!
First I would like to say that I believe everyone is right, you should definitely use the proper timing technique outlined by others and recommended to time the fuel injection, but in the unlikely event that anyone in the future has an issue where someone inexplicably welds something over the bell housing sight window, and timing it the right way becomes difficult to impossible, the answer to my original question seems to be 4. Admittedly with a sample size of only one tractor... According to the shop manual, the timing for the injector is retarded by about 1.5* degrees for each .15MM shim installed. I ordered several shims in sizes of .2 .25 and .3 and decided to try .45 total for the first test. This is the equivalent of 4.5 degrees of timing and it improved, then 007kubotaguy sent me the shims he took off of a parted out tractor and it had 4 .15MM shims or about 6 degrees. The ones I put on helped, but adding that last .15 mm shim to take it to 6 really smoothed things out. So on to the next issue, again thanks everyone for the help!