Push Button Start on L3450?

[WHG]

Bought mine earlier this spring. Guy I bought it from said previous owner had bypassed some solenoid, which he showed me on right side of engine compartment. To start my tractor I have to turn the key all the way to the right, then on the left side of the console there is a push button, that cranks the starter. Is this push button normal? Or is this some work around?

Second somewhat unrelated question, just above this starter push button is a rocker switch, on/off. What is this for? i assume it is for some light(s) that maybe don't work.

I have read the manual for this tractor, no mention of the push button start, or the rocker switch above.

Thanks in advance

 

[rbargeron]

Neither the rocker switch or the push button is original equipment.

The push button is likely a work-around for a solenoid circuit that's open or weak somewhere. It powers the starter solenoid directly from the nearby batt positive terminal without going to other stuff first (like clutch safety switch or pto safety switch, or some corroded connection).

The rocker is for the prior owner's lunar navigation system.

 

[thepumpguysc]

Rocker could be for lites.. could be for glow plugs.. could be for electric shut-off solenoid.??

 

[greeno]

Anti-theft device...I like it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MilkyWay]

Neither the rocker switch or the push button is original equipment.... The rocker is for the prior owner's lunar navigation system.

I'm going with the LNS, Lunar Nav Sys enable/disable! I like it!

 

[bherron1]

Just fixen to do the same thing on my new BX2680 to bypass the start terminal on my key switch. Have already ran a wire from start terminal on key switch a year ago to starter solenoid because the stupid switches which are called safety switches failed withen two weeks. Im going to wire my start button from battery positive to starter solenoid with a fuse of course in the circuit. It want leave me down in the woods again. The HST fan key switch and safety switches have been the only real trouble I have had with this little tractor and Im approaching 200 hrs in just over a year. She has done a lot of work and done it quite well. If you kill your self bypassing the safety switches then yep you done something stupid.

 

[Dave_eng]

Bought mine earlier this spring. Guy I bought it from said previous owner had bypassed some solenoid, which he showed me on right side of engine compartment. To start my tractor I have to turn the key all the way to the right, then on the left side of the console there is a push button, that cranks the starter. Is this push button normal? Or is this some work around?

Second somewhat unrelated question, just above this starter push button is a rocker switch, on/off. What is this for? i assume it is for some light(s) that maybe don't work.

I have read the manual for this tractor, no mention of the push button start, or the rocker switch above.

Thanks in advance

Need some photos ton better understand what you have been left with.
I think you don't have enough posts to allow you to put up photos.

Take a few and email them to me finding my email in the Private Message section and I will post them for you.

Do you have a wiring diagram?

Dave

 

[WHG]

Need some photos ton better understand what you have been left with.
I think you don't have enough posts to allow you to put up photos.

Take a few and email them to me finding my email in the Private Message section and I will post them for you.

Do you have a wiring diagram?

Dave

Dave - sent you a PM with the images. Thanks in advance.

 

[WHG]

BTW, I don't have a wiring diagram, but here was a thread elsewhere on this page that referenced another tractor of similar model and vintage with wiring diagram. I have looked at that. I have to admit the EE1713 was not my strongest class in University....the diagram makes some sense, but not complete sense. I will see if I can dig it up.

Thanks

 

[Dave_eng]

The first two photos are provided by owner.

The next two photos have my marked up comments on then. The most worrisome detail is a piece welded in the side of the block possibly after a connecting rod failure.

This photo shows the engine stop solenoid with its electrical connector disconnected. From the wiring diagram I found, the solenoid seems to stop the engine when power is cut off so the engine should not run with the connector open if I am correct.

The blue wire seems to go inside the plastic wire loom so I cannot see where it goes.

The glow plug wiring is odd in that the plugs are series connected and this too could be screwed up.

Go to Kubotabooks and download the manual I have marked to get the wiring diagram

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'll send you the WSM for your L3450.

The fuel stop solenoid get power for 5 seconds when the key is shut off via the stop timer.
So on that model disconnecting the solenoid will let it run but to stop it you will need to use the manual stop on the lower right of the dash.

I have a L3450 wiring is pretty simple but a little tricky if you don't know wiring.

I sounds like someone didn't know what they were doing on it, most likely the reason the key doesn't work is a safety switch is not working.

 

[WHG]

Thanks guys

I printed off the wiring diagram.

Dave - to me it looks like the glow plugs are wired in series on the diagram. Hopefully that isn't a problem.

Looking in the manual, I think the button being used for the starter was originally from the horn. The blue wire you are seeing runs back to that horn switch I believe, tried to confirm last night but wasn't able to get the dash cover panel off, didn't have a metric wrench with me. The blue wire basically comes from the horn button down to the in-line fuse, before snaking back into the wire loom and then traveling to the positive terminal of the battery. This blue wire does not appear to go to the starter, not sure if that makes sense or not.

Any reason not to re-connect the fuel stop solenoid? Maybe it is disconnected because it doesn't work? Could all this bypass wiring be due to the fuel stop solenoid not working? I assume if it doesn't work does that mean it won't allow fuel to the engine either, or is it normally open and just won't shut down the fuel?

Yes, I just use the manual fuel stop to stop it....

I wondered about that weld on the block....

Despite these idiosyncrasies the tractor actually operates pretty well, not that i am farming with it every day, but it works well for what I have used it for.

 

[bxray]

The rocker switch is to enguage the Mars rover software!

Sounds like a rube wiring job.

Ray.

 

[MilkyWay]

The rocker switch is to enguage the Mars rover software....
Ray.

Did you guys hear in the news recently that US scientists have launched a rocket with instruments to investigate the sun! I guess they are going to go at night. Maybe they are going to go when the sun is not at "full" phase.

 

[Dave_eng]

Thanks guys

I printed off the wiring diagram.

Dave - to me it looks like the glow plugs are wired in series on the diagram. Hopefully that isn't a problem.

Looking in the manual, I think the button being used for the starter was originally from the horn. The blue wire you are seeing runs back to that horn switch I believe, tried to confirm last night but wasn't able to get the dash cover panel off, didn't have a metric wrench with me. The blue wire basically comes from the horn button down to the in-line fuse, before snaking back into the wire loom and then traveling to the positive terminal of the battery. This blue wire does not appear to go to the starter, not sure if that makes sense or not.

Any reason not to re-connect the fuel stop solenoid? Maybe it is disconnected because it doesn't work? Could all this bypass wiring be due to the fuel stop solenoid not working? I assume if it doesn't work does that mean it won't allow fuel to the engine either, or is it normally open and just won't shut down the fuel?

Yes, I just use the manual fuel stop to stop it....

I wondered about that weld on the block....

Despite these idiosyncrasies the tractor actually operates pretty well, not that i am farming with it every day, but it works well for what I have used it for.

I should have put my glasses on when looking at the wiring diagram. I was wrong on the operation of the fuel solenoid and thankfully others corrected this so you were not seriously mislead for long. The solenoid cuts off fuel for a few seconds forcing the engine to stop.

Before reconnecting the solenoid, apply 12 volt power to its one wire and see if any movement in the external linkage is visible. If it works with the jumper and does not when plugged back in, the timer becomes suspect but we can sort that out.

Send me a photo of your glow plug wiring. I can easily see if your series wired plugs are done correctly. Many inexperienced diesel mechanics are unfamiliar with the different styles of GP wiring and can make changes which make the engine harder to start than necessary. The two different styles of wiring each have their + and - features. Series wired, one fails and none work. Parallel wired, two of 3 GP's could be defective and there is no obvious sign.

In light of the block weld, I suggest you just be observant for antifreeze in the oil or oil i the rad. The repair may well be properly done but with the other Rube style fixes, you need to be cautious so as to not damage expensive parts.

Dave

 

[WHG]

Here is my latest findings....sorry cant post pics easy right now

First, the fuel selinoid works fine with 12v applied to it. It does not work however if I simply re-connect the factory connection and shut key off. I didn***8217;t think to check and see if wires are receiving voltage when tractor is running. I suspect not but don***8217;t know.

With the column shifter in neutral, the tractor will start with the button, no operator in seat and clutch not depressed. I know this is dangerous, just reporting this as the situation.

Wiring. I removed all the cowling below the steering wheel to chase wires. First off, the blue wire is for lights that aren***8217;t hooked up to the rocker switch.

Connect to the top position of the push button is a red wire that goes to the lug at bottom side of the starter. There is a heavy cable attached to this lug that goes to the battery. There is a second yellow wire that is connected directly to the starter. This appears to be spliced into a black and white wire; not sure where this BW wire originated but it***8217;s not part of the work around best I can tell. You can see this connection in the photo of the starter, bottom left corner of starter

Any thoughts on how to reactivate the factory ignition?

 

[WHG]

Just reviewed shop manual sent thanks to Wolfman, great diagrams.

Looks like a few possible options for bad switches/relays which I think have been bypassed.

There is a slow blow fuse and starter relay, then there is a pto limit switch and shuttle switch. Are theses two switches activated by depressing the clutch? Where are the located? I assume they could be tested by jumping across them?

And how about starter relay and fuse? I assume it’s cheap and easy to replace fuse, where would this be? The relay, best way to test ?

Thanks all

 

[D2Cat]

Not sure on your engine, but some fuel solenoids are actually two solenoids. With the key to the START position one solenoid opens the fuel, when the key returns to RUN the second solenoid holds it open (their in the same housing). When you turn the key OFF, the power to the hold solenoid is lost and it closes shutting off the fuel.

Might see what your wiring diagram shows to see if that may be your problem.

 

[Dave_eng]

Not sure on your engine, but some fuel solenoids are actually two solenoids. With the key to the START position one solenoid opens the fuel, when the key returns to RUN the second solenoid holds it open (their in the same housing). When you turn the key OFF, the power to the hold solenoid is lost and it closes shutting off the fuel.

Might see what your wiring diagram shows to see if that may be your problem.

D2cat
Earlier NIW corrected my mistake concerning the fuel solenoid

The solenoid associated with the fuel supply is controlled by a timer which sends power to the solenoid to shut off the fuel. Power is applied for approx 15 seconds which is long enough for the engine to stop.

I bought a shop manual for the L3450 and other models of same generation so my posts would be more relevant to this tractor. Send me a PM if you would like to download a free copy.

Dave

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I bought a shop manual for the L3450 and other models of same generation so my posts would be more relevant to this tractor.

Always ask me before you buy any WSM's, I have quite a few and Since I own and run a L3450 It's one of my main manuals.