Pto pump shaking badly? Why

[Shadow_storm56]

So all PTO pumps seem to shake some but the one I use to boost pressure to my irrigation reel started fairly shaky but keeps getting worse and now shakes like if you taped a sledge hammer to the driveshaft. Had to switch pumps it was just insane. Ironically the only non shakey part is the driveshaft. I took the cover off and can't see anything wrong with the impeller but haven't gotten it completely out it. The other pump shakes in the same way but 1% of the intensity. Only shakes when it's pumping not when just spinning.

Everything appears fine... bearings, gears... everything seems fine so it must be somthing with the impeller I can't see yet... maybe?

More or less need advice on what to look for.

 

[Russell King]

No idea what you are physically describing so you might want to post pictures.

But since you’re using some type of PTO drive shaft, are you sure it is put together correctly? There is normally only one way on newer shafts but older shafts can be put together so the ends are clocked incorrectly and cause vibrations.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

No idea what you are physically describing so you might want to post pictures.

But since you’re using some type of PTO drive shaft, are you sure it is put together correctly? There is normally only one way on newer shafts but older shafts can be put together so the ends are clocked incorrectly and cause vibrations.

The pto isn't what's shaking and yes it can only go one way on it too. I meant the pump is shaking as bad as if the PTO was horribly off balance but it's not the PTO that's shaking in this case.

I wish it was that simple.....

 

[Russell King]

Then it is probably the impeller has lost a vane or caught something on a vane

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Then it is probably the impeller has lost a vane or caught something on a vane

Haven't found anything yet I can see the back of the impeller and the side but until I figure how to get it off the shaft I won't know for sure

 

[D2Cat]

How is the pump coupled to the PTO shaft? Maybe that coupling is not centered, or fully engaged. Maybe that suction hose is pulling on the pump because of the tight bend and weight of water causing it to be imbalanced.

 

[Russell King]

@D2Cat

I recall that some member on here works for some company that deals with pumps (rental?). I believe he repairs the pumps.

I can’t recall what member it is but do you recall that user’s name?

 

[D2Cat]

@D2Cat

I recall that some member on here works for some company that deals with pumps (rental?). I believe he repairs the pumps.

I can’t recall what member it is but do you recall that user’s name?

Daren Todd

 

[Russell King]

@Daren Todd

Can you make any suggestions on this pump problem (when you get back online)?

 

[BAP]

Have you bent the PTO shaft on the tractor itself? We had a tractor that happened because the trailer we used on it was a sawdust shooter wagon that you could shoot sawdust or sand into freestalls. It was hydraulic driven and had a big hydraulic pump that ran off the PTO because it was self contained system. The pump was heavy and it slid directly onto the tractor shaft and hung there without support. It eventually bent the tractor shaft.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Have you bent the PTO shaft on the tractor itself? We had a tractor that happened because the trailer we used on it was a sawdust shooter wagon that you could shoot sawdust or sand into freestalls. It was hydraulic driven and had a big hydraulic pump that ran off the PTO because it was self contained system. The pump was heavy and it slid directly onto the tractor shaft and hung there without support. It eventually bent the tractor shaft.

No it's literally running a different pump in the meantime that I need elsewhere but had to borrow for this and all is good.

Everything was shaking but the pto was pretty much the only thing not shaking.

 

[Daren Todd]

I've never worked on a PTO pump before. I would need lot's of photos.

But a couple things to check. First would be to shine a flash light in the suction side and check to see if something is stuck in the impeller.

Run something up the vanes to see if there is a blockage.
A fish tape for pulling electrical wires is handy for this since its hard but flexible.

There could be a rock stuck in a vane where you can't see it.

Spin the pump end over by hand and see if you can feel if a bearing is getting bad or somethings bound.

Any loose mounting bolts???

Take a pry bar and push up on the impeller as well to see if a bearing is bad.

My thoughts though are to check anything foolish and simple first before diving into or assuming anything major.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

I've never worked on a PTO pump before. I would need lot's of photos.

But a couple things to check. First would be to shine a flash light in the suction side and check to see if something is stuck in the impeller.

I fish tape for pulling electrical wires is handy for this since its hard but flexible.

There could be a rock stuck in a vane where you can't see it.

Spin the pump end over by hand and see if you can feel if a bearing is getting bad.

Take a pry bar and push up on the impeller as well to see if a bearing is bad.

My thoughts though are to check anything foolish and simple first before diving into or assuming anything major.

I just took off the back cap to access the impeller, was hoping to remove and examine it if I didn't see anything obvious. Sofar it looks fine and spins true. Unless there's issues on the front side of the impeller.

 

[Daren Todd]

I just took off the back cap to access the impeller, was hoping to remove and examine it if I didn't see anything obvious. Sofar it looks fine and spins true. Unless there's issues on the front side of the impeller.

Not usually, there's pretty tight tolerances behind the impeller and the case.

Judging by the photos, is that a jet pump??? Larger suction, smaller discharge for higher pressure.

If thats the case, run something up through the vanes to see if there is a blockage. It doesn't take much for a stone to get caught in them.

Since it's mounted on a three point hitch, something small to knock it out of balance would be amplified.

 

[Shadow_storm56]

Not usually, there's pretty tight tolerances behind the impeller and the case.

Judging by the photos, is that a jet pump??? Larger suction, smaller discharge for higher pressure.

If thats the case, run something up through the vanes to see if there is a blockage. It doesn't take much for a stone to get caught in them.

Since it's mounted on a three point hitch, something small to knock it out of balance would be amplified.

Nope it's a very high speed little impeller pump. I actually put it on the 3 point to help with vibration it was on a cart and would shake holes in the fittings. Helped for a while then it continued to get worse. I wonder if I can find my little bore camera to get in the vanes

 

[Daren Todd]

Nope it's a very high speed little impeller pump. I actually put it on the 3 point to help with vibration it was on a cart and would shake holes in the fittings. Helped for a while then it continued to get worse. I wonder if I can find my little bore camera to get in the vanes

What you consider high speed for a pump is my normal. Rpm on a pump is anywhere from 800 rpm at idle to 1800 rpms at full throttle for my trailer mounted diesel pumps.

On the little gas driven trash pumps, they can spin around 3200 rpms.

What i meant for a jet pump is the cut on the vanes. They use a narrower impeller with a steeper pitch on the Vanes. So you get less volume but more pressure.

A jet pump predominantly has a larger suction diameter and smaller discharge diameter.

My basic 6x6 water pump puts out 1200gpm at 60psi with a 50hp diesel

My 6x3 jet pumps (6" suction, 3" discharge) puts out 600 gpm at 130 psi with an 80hp diesel.

My 4x4 pumps put out 700 gpm at 55 psi using a 25hp diesel. The 40hp diesel puts out 900 gpm at 65 psi.

I'm assuming there's a transmission hooked to the pump to step up your RPM's from 540 rpms.

Can you post what the make and model is for the pump, so I can look up the specs. There should be a data plate with make, model, and serial number somewhere on the pump

 

[Shadow_storm56]

What you consider high speed for a pump is my normal. Rpm on a pump is anywhere from 800 rpm at idle to 1800 rpms at full throttle for my trailer mounted diesel pumps.

On the little gas driven trash pumps, they can spin around 3200 rpms.

What i meant for a jet pump is the cut on the vanes. They use a narrower impeller with a steeper pitch on the Vanes. So you get less volume but more pressure.

A jet pump predominantly has a larger suction diameter and smaller discharge diameter.

My basic 6x6 water pump puts out 1200gpm at 60psi with a 50hp diesel

My 6x3 jet pumps (6" suction, 3" discharge) puts out 600 gpm at 130 psi with an 80hp diesel.

My 4x4 pumps put out 700 gpm at 55 psi using a 25hp diesel. The 40hp diesel puts out 900 gpm at 65 psi.

I'm assuming there's a transmission hooked to the pump to step up your RPM's from 540 rpms.

Can you post what the make and model is for the pump, so I can look up the specs. There should be a data plate with make, model, and serial number somewhere on the pump

Yes here's the model

 

[Daren Todd]

So... looks like it's just a standard irrigation pump that does 352gpm.

Rpms seems to be around 3600 rpm.

Stupid simple first. How's the PTO shaft U-joints? Good and lubed. Not catching or popping. Are you positive it's oriented properly

Inspect the impeller. Remove the suction cover that attaches to the volute. This will give you a clear view of the impeller. From what I see in the photo you posted, it looks like the cover can be removed that your suction fitting attaches to.

Somethings off balance. Could be something stuck in one of the vanes that you can't see with a flash light.

Or it could be something internal causing the issue. Gear box issue, worn bearing, etc.....

 

[Shadow_storm56]

So... looks like it's just a standard irrigation pump that does 352gpm.

Rpms seems to be around 3600 rpm.

Stupid simple first. How's the PTO shaft U-joints? Good and lubed. Not catching or popping. Are you positive it's oriented properly

Inspect the impeller. Remove the suction cover that attaches to the volute. This will give you a clear view of the impeller. From what I see in the photo you posted, it looks like the cover can be removed that your suction fitting attaches to.

Somethings off balance. Could be something stuck in one of the vanes that you can't see with a flash light.

Or it could be something internal causing the issue. Gear box issue, worn bearing, etc.....

It's had a couple different PTOs never changes the vibration amount. I have it open to that point but can't see anything wrong. Everything seems fine and like I said it only shakes when pumping but not it it's spinning empty

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Then it is probably the impeller has lost a vane or caught something on a vane

that's my guess as well... need to know make/model info to see online drawing of how it's made but a stuck vane or two ,especially side by side will really shake a pump.