LS4041 VS L3940 or L4240

[KenB2920]

All you orange tractor lovers out there, keep an open mind and give honest feedback. If you have facts and not just an opinion please leave a link.

My good friend just purchased a LS 4041 which is essentially the same as a New Holland and a few other tractors under different names. The tractor comes standard with everything but the kitchen sink. FEL, 2 sets of rear remotes, tilt steering comfortable seat, 3 pt slide out links, and great specs comparable to the L3940 and L4240. It has great visibility from the operators position, leg room, etc.

He paid $19000 NEW and the closest comparable Kubota is $27,000 priced from my local Kubota dealer. I went to the dealer and he had his opinion but was very honest and unable to explain why such a difference in price. The Kubota dealer in town is fabulous and very reputable. I purchased my B2920 and love it (I'll save why I am looking into a L3240HSTC in another thread).


He has a shuttle shift which will fit his application of farming, logging and other things around his property.

Now I dont want this to get ugly, but I would like peoples input on the $8,000 dollar difference. The tractor is built in South Korea which alot of brands are. Again, I am a huge Kubota fan but that is a drastic price difference with having similar features.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

Kubota started out years ago as a value price leader in the tractor market, more bang for your buck sort to speak. Kubota has gained in popularity over the years and their price has gone up as a result of popularity. I don't know much about LS tractor because they are confusing as hell as to who owns them or builds them. I did see online that LS imports New Holland tractors, sticks their label on them and sells them in other countries. I'm sure side by side both tractor brands have alot of features in common. But Kubota is known for putting the power to the ground and it will loose tractor LONG before it looses horse power. To me there's so much more then price. I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for and yeah both tractors are built alike but its the things you don't see that add up. Like treatment and warranty on the tractor after the sale. Kubota has several distribution plants here in the U.S and parts are almost always in stock at my dealer or take no more then 3 days to get when I need them.

For me I know where atleast 5 or 6 Kubota dealers are in the state of Virginia, I have no clue where the first LS dealer is.

 

[bosshogg]

He would have recovered that $8,000 and then some when it comes to trade or sell outright plus the fact there would be people wanting to purchase it. Yes, you pay for the name "Kubota" just like you pay for Honda and Toyota. There reputations and quality workmanship has gained them that premium price. You recover it at selling time and when it is not in the shop being fixed. Just my $ 0.02!

 

[Eric McCarthy]

He would have recovered that $8,000 and then some when it comes to trade or sell outright plus the fact there would be people wanting to purchase it. Yes, you pay for the name "Kubota" just like you pay for Honda and Toyota. There reputations and quality workmanship has gained them that premium price. You recover it at selling time and when it is not in the shop being fixed. Just my $ 0.02!

Yep I'd agree 100% with that statement. I haven't seen too many LS brand new nor seen a single one for sale used.

 

[hodge]

LS doesn't begin to have as many models or applications as Kubota- R&D costs money, and the return is a lineup that meets more needs. Perhaps some of the price difference is in the broad spectrum that Kubota offers.
Kubota also makes most if not all of their components. I have no idea about LS. That is a valuable selling point- not even Deere can say that.
For me, my local Kubota dealership sells LS, but not many, they don't stock many, and it comes and goes- they sold them a couple of years ago, and they have just started selling them again. For me, that $8000 isn't enough savings to compensate for an unknown tractor, with an unknown history and an unknown future. I would bank on Kubota being around for a very long time. Who knows about LS?
I'm sure that some of the price difference is acrued by cost of doing business, and some of it because of the value and history that Kubota offers. In a sense, they can sell them for more, because a Kubota tractor is more sought after. Supply and demand.

 

[lemontwist]

I'd check with Barlow Equipment in Kentucky. I was amazed at the difference in price between them and the local dealers, even with shippping costs. I think my local dealer is used to having a monopoly, so didn't discount much at all.
In my shopping, Kubota was more costly, but not as much as I expected, given the desirability/brand recognition.

 

[KenB2920]

Thank you for your input. I LOVE my Kubota, but I must say, I wouldn't Mi d a minor inconvenience over 8k. I definitely agree it is nice having a dealer I can drive my tractor too (2 miles away) and having a nicely stocked facility. I definitely am a person. That believes you get what you pay for. Such as buying a dewalt vs harbor freight. It's just mind boggling because I definitely can't call this tractor a harbor freight comparison. I guess only time will tell ....

 

[TSO]

Hopefully I don't get flamed too bad... being that I own the "other" orange tractor (Kioti)...

I recently bought a LS R4041 Synchro-Shuttle. Spec-for-Spec, practically no other tractor maker could touch the price. My local dealer is 40 miles away, and another dealer is 80 miles.

The OP has a fantastic Kubota dealer only 2 miles away, which is worth its' weight in gold. My Kioti dealer is only 20 miles away, which isn't bad either. I think a good, close, and trusted dealer is worth some money (in the sales price). However, if you need to go to the dealer a few times in the life of your tractor for repairs (let's say 3-5 times for argument's sake) is that minor difference in convenience worth $8000 ?

People always talk about resale resale resale... and that is a good argument, to a point. My LS was $19200. A comparable Kubota is $27000. If in 5 years, I can sell my LS for $9200 and the Kubota sells for $17000, then in the end we both spent $10,000. (those numbers are guesses for both brands of course). However, if you keep the tractor long term, then obviously the cheaper tractor is Less money spent.

I agree with Eric McCarthy... Kubota used to be the new-kid-on-the-block, and offered cheaper pricing to gain market share. Now, they sell a ton of tractors and have earned the reputation to charge more money. I've only had my Kioti for a year, but their prices are steadily rising as well, as their reputation and value have gained them some market share.

As for LS... I think you're looking at the same situation. They make their own tractors, and have been making them since the 70's. They're a division of LG Corp, and have made tractors for Case-NH, Montana, McCormick, FarmTrac, etc... They've made some tractors for Mahindra also. They use a Mitsubishi 4cyl Diesel (in my model at least), but otherwise they make their own components. Kubota is made in S Korea (like the OP mentioned) and that seems to be the "new Japan" in terms of manufacturing quality & output.

The NewHolland Boomer series is just a re-branded LS (mine would be the Boomer 40). There is NOTHING different except for decals, headlight design, and oddly, the loader; NH uses their own loader (which I believe is a Rhino?) and it is quite a bit weaker than the LS loader. Of Course, NH charges a $5000 premium to buy their decals, and then they order the tractor without the stock features that LS has, like the dual rear-remotes, rear 7-pin harness, and rear work-light... so the dealer can charge to install them.

From what I've heard, there was a sales/corporate fallout between Fiat (Case-NH) and LS, and I think LS took the attitude of "screw you" and decided to sell the tractors under their own brand (since 2009 now). Their corporate states that they are directly aiming to gain market share in the US... but they already sell alot of tractors globally.

In regards to quality, I don't think that any particular tractor brand has an edge either way. My Kioti has needed dealer attention for the following: pinched O-Ring gasket in a loader hose-coupler causing a small fluid leak. AND the steering shaft gasket sprung a small leak, which Kioti replaced with an entirely new steering assembly so they could inspect the faulty steering gasket. The only person I personally know with a Kubota (the OP ) has had issues needing dealer attention too, in practically the same time frame. In both cases, the problems wasn't really a quality issue with the tractor itself, but a minor part problem with a supplied part. I think that you're going to find practically the same thing with most tractor brands. My opinion anyways...

Anyhow, no one can predict the future, just like they couldn't when Kubota joined the US market. They MAY find that people only want to buy a tractor with a familiar name (ie Kubota, NH, JD, etc etc etc) and so they won't gain significant enough market share to support selling as LS and will go back to selling them as "re-brands."

For me, I wanted the best tractor for the price. But that's mostly because I'm a cheap-a$$... But it turns out, that I got a loaded up tractor with great specs & capabilities, a good engine, nice fit-&-finish, a strong loader (2500# full lift @ pins, 4354# breakout @ pins) 35 pto HP, 5000lbs on the ground, and a 5-year warranty to boot!

I think Kubota makes a fantastic tractor, and if you have the money, and truly believe it's $8000 better than the LS... kudos to you, I'm sure you're getting a great tractor.

But $8000 can buy alot of implements!

Don't forget, blue is a way better color for a tractor anyhow

 

[Forge]

The biggest cost in owning anything with wheels is depreciation. The Kubota will hold its value much better, in the same way as a Mercedes will depreciate less than a Hyundai. They both do the same job. The Kubota,like the Merc, will be much easier to sell. And you'll like the way you look...

 

[Eric McCarthy]

. Kubota is made in S Korea (like the OP mentioned) and that seems to be the "new Japan" in terms of manufacturing quality & output.

Boss I don't know where you collect your information but Kubota IS NOT made in Korea, Kubota is manufactured in Osaka Japan. And no LS does not make build their tractors for New Holland. LS Imports a few select models and stick's their label on them and resells them in other countries as LS-New Holland. Much like Zen-noh did with Kubotas. Fiat still has a majority of the holdings in the CNH tractor market.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

You might want to read this about LS tractors and get the facts straight before you start putting out information you have no clue about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_Tractors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Holland_Ag

 

[Eric McCarthy]

And after doing a little bit more reading and research tonight on the net I happened to have found this info. Which kinda makes me question if some of the John Deere tractors are built from Shibaura since they have Yanmar diesels in them. All to damn confusing to me so I'll stick with Kubota which I know for a fact is Kubota threw and threw and they build their own toys.

http://tractors.wikia.com/wiki/Shibaura

 

[TSO]

Boss I don't know where you collect your information but Kubota IS NOT made in Korea, Kubota is manufactured in Osaka Japan. And no LS does not make build their tractors for New Holland. LS Imports a few select models and stick's their label on them and resells them in other countries as LS-New Holland. Much like Zen-noh did with Kubotas. Fiat still has a majority of the holdings in the CNH tractor market.

That was a Typo... I meant that Kubota makes them in Japan (like the OP said) ... Kubota is a purely Japanese company, which is fine with me because I'm a big fan of their cars! That was a long message that I had typed, I apologize for the typo.

And no, YOU are wrong. LS builds the Boomer tractors. They are built on contract for New Holland. If you buy a Boomer 40 for example, it is a rebranded LS R4041. A Boomer 50 is a rebranded LS R4047. Fiat owns majority of CNH - and they ordered the tractors from LS, like they (NH) previously did from Shibaura (Japanese tractor & engine company).

You might want to read this about LS tractors and get the facts straight before you start putting out information you have no clue about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LS_Tractors

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Holland_Ag

Lord help the man who believes that Wikipedia is gospel... LOL Good job looking up information. Clearly you did your homework I hope you don't get all of your info from Wikipedia. You'd come off sounding like a real moron if that was the case. Being that this is probably the first time you looked up LS, it's excusable.

The truth is, there are really only a handful of tractor (I'm speaking of compact tractors here..) manufacturers left in the world. Kubota is practically the only one that builds theirs from the ground up. Although, I'm sure there are some parts here & there in Kubs that are purchased from a 3rd party vendor, just like Toyota & other carmakers buy parts from Denso. From what I've read, JD is starting to source most of their own parts in house too, but they still buy engines.

I'm not disputing that Kubota is a great tractor. I'm just saying that dollar for dollar, you get less for your money. If peace of mind of your "established" tractor line is worth the $8000 upgrade, then great, it's not my money. I'm not wealthy, and I don't live in a "rich subdivision" or anything ... so I have to make every dollar count. LS was a great option for a guy like me, but I guess only time will tell.

I'm 6 hours in and no complaints yet

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I'm not going to sit here and get into a pissing contest with a know it all. And NO I don't take Wikipedia's word as gospel. But when the only information you can find out on something comes from Wiki then you kinda have to go with what you see. I sat here for hours the other night doing a ton of research on LS tractors and the info I posted is about the only real info I've came across.

I have tried to read reviews about LS tractors and all I can find are people asking a ton of questions and hardly any answers given other then price. For me when I can hardly find out any info about something I tend to steer clear of them. And I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for in life.

If you're happy with the LS tractor then by all means go with what works best for you. But again I don't like taking a risk on something because its a cheaper price and not know or can find anything out about something. Even looking at used LS tractors for sale are minimal and Tractor House had a small hand full listed and all those are new.

 

[TSO]

I'm not going to sit here and get into a pissing contest with a know it all. And NO I don't take Wikipedia's word as gospel. But when the only information you can find out on something comes from Wiki then you kinda have to go with what you see. I sat here for hours the other night doing a ton of research on LS tractors and the info I posted is about the only real info I've came across.

I have tried to read reviews about LS tractors and all I can find are people asking a ton of questions and hardly any answers given other then price. For me when I can hardly find out any info about something I tend to steer clear of them. And I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for in life.

If you're happy with the LS tractor then by all means go with what works best for you. But again I don't like taking a risk on something because its a cheaper price and not know or can find anything out about something. Even looking at used LS tractors for sale are minimal and Tractor House had a small hand full listed and all those are new.

I understand what you're saying. The reason you are not finding used ones out there, is that they didn't start selling them under their own name until '09.

I'm cheap. No doubt about it. However, (and the OP will verify this) I research the crap out of things before I buy something. I sat on practically every competing tractor in this range before I made a decision. I did not bother sitting on a Deere because of their outlandish pricing. I did not sit on TYM because I have heard more bad than good from them, although they are probably the cheapest on the market right now. I also did not sit on a Mahindra, because A: dealer wasn't close B: too heavy C: middle-of-the-pack pricing D: middle-of-the-pack loader specs.

There were things I liked about the Kubota, without a doubt. If I was going HST, the Kubota's HST+ is excellent. However, spec for spec, the Kubota was way overpriced compared to LS, Kioti, and a few others. I've always like NH, but no way was I going to pay the extra money for the same tractor with different stickers and less loader.

Anyhow... I know you Orange guys are die-hard Orange, and that's fine. You have a great product and a sprawling dealer network. Maybe LS will get there, maybe they won't. Eric, I'm happy so far with my LS. We'll see what happens in 5 years when my warranty is up. I do plan to keep this tractor for a long, long time... so resale doesn't mean diddly-squat to me. $8000 can buy a lot of implements!

If it turns out that my LS is a terrible product, I will have no problem telling everyone how terrible it is. Being that they've been making tractors for quite awhile, I doubt that will happen, but if I could predict the future, I'd be a rich man by now.

Best of luck to the OP. I know he'll go with a Kubota again because he has the big bux to afford it! And I'm sure he'll be getting a fantastic tractor.

 

[KenB2920]

Lol, wowsers, things went a little sideways here. Thank you all for your input. I still welcome more opinions.

As for me I am haven't completely made up my mind, but it does seem I am going with another Kubota. I have sat now on several tractors and compared several tractors specs.

I sat in the kioti cab and the fit and finish is simply not as nice as the kubota. It did have a sun visor though. I didn't even bother with price because I didn't like it.

No other real cabs were available locally.

In comparison "online" the John Deere looked to have pretty appealing lines on the inside. I really liked the Deere too. The only so called drawback is it has parts made by everybody. I did not check with local dealer, ut they don't seem to have every part in stock as the kubota dealer appears to. He "seems" more retail orientated.

Everything to me points be back at then L Grand series. It has the nicest standard features. Everything else can either be added at a latter time as I may need it. Example: rear remotes. This way I know if I should get floating or what not.

The hst+ is amazing .... It truly seems tone the Cadillac of the tractors on the market for fit and finish. I can only hope on quality but only time will tell. Thus far I haven't heard of kubota having any issues.

The kubota does appear to cost a few more dollars than other brands, and aside the the LS it has more and better features.

Thinking of specs I came up with this, they are majority in the same ball park. If one can lift 150lbs more than the other and you need that 150lbs, you bought the wrong tractor and should ofngone bigger. If the loader can go 5 inches higher than the other and you are always maxing out the lift, again you bought the wrong tractor. In my opinion that goes for every spec across the board, bucket size, lift capacity, breakout force, wheelbase, 3pt lift. Hell, I am surprised people aren't comparing headlight lumens and horn decibels.

I guess the otherbthing I like about kubota is they literally make a model for everyone out there for every need at every price point.

Like TSO said, I don't plan on getting rid of this tractor for a long time unless I lose my job. I by no means make the big bucks, and am very frugal with my money. However, when I see something of great quality, I buy the best my money allows.

My current tractor has 280 hours on it in just under 2 years. I feel, since I just do landscaping, gardening, snow removal, and other odd jobs, thats alot of seat time. You better really like what you have and be as comfortable as can be. As time goes on, i will only find more uses for the machine.

If put 140 hours a year on my tractor and have it for 15 years that's 2100 hours. That will cost me $3.80 per hour over the life of my tractor. I can justify that for having the Cadillac of tractors with a fabulous dealer down the street. (hopefully they don't close).

$8000 buys a lot of implements and beer. But if you can figure a way to share implements, make your own beer as I do, well I think it's all a wash. 0% financing goes along way in itself. Wether kubota figures in additional money to say it zero percent or not. To me I like seeing 100% of my money go on a loan. Most likely it will be paid off early anyhow since i hate bills and debt.

Oh well, this has been long enough.

Bottom line, buy what you want. You have to use it.

 

[KenB2920]

The $3.80 over the life of the tractor, refers to the $8000 more. Not the total price paid.

 

[TSO]

Well, for the record, I think that whether you go orange or blue, you'll be getting a fantastic tractor... and I'll be happy to share implements with you anyday I am, so far, happy with my LS. I'm sure you will be extremely happy with your new Kubota, it's a great tractor!

Side note: (and Eric McCarthy should appreciate this) ... saw this 2008 FarmTrac tractor for sale locally the other day. Interestingly, I noticed the steering wheel. (see pics)

 

[KenB2920]

Amazing what is hidden in plain view!!! If I get enough done, adult beverages in your barn tonight. I am debating posting the B2920 up for sale this week ...