Lift arms on 2350DT stuttering with auger attachment

[Stuart_T]

Changed the hydraulic oil & cleaned the screen yesterday, which was on the agenda anyway. Oil was golden brown but not cloudy and screen pretty good.

This morning I hooked it up to the brush cutter, snow blade and finally the PHD, with a "no load" for comparison, and put new videos in Dropbox,

Under no load it is smooth. With the brushcutter there is a little bounce as it settles down. Almost none with the snow blade, and I think slightly less with the PHD. But I am thinking that the geometry of the attachments themselves must also have something to do with it. The PHD boom is long and the auger, stuck way out at the end, shakes and rattles once the lift stops., magnifying any unevenness in the lift. (If the lift were smoother with the PHD attached, this would presumably be lessened though.) Also, the video example is with the auger fully off the ground to start with, rather than being withdrawn from a hole, which would dampen things somewhat, at least until it is nearly out of the hole.

I'm not worried about the behaviour with the brush cutter or snow blade.

 

[Russell King]

That all looks like perfectly normal movement to me, When it reaches the set point and the valve feedback cuts off the valve then the implement momentum creates that bounce at the end of the movement.

You can possibly slow the engine RPM down some and get smoother movement but I wouldn’t worry about it anymore.

 

[Stuart_T]

That all looks like perfectly normal movement to me, When it reaches the set point and the valve feedback cuts off the valve then the implement momentum creates that bounce at the end of the movement.

You can possibly slow the engine RPM down some and get smoother movement but I wouldn’t worry about it anymore.

Thanks. I'll be happy to go with that I still have to drop into the dealer since when I was under the machine to do the hydraulic fluid I discovered that two of the eight 16mm bolts that hold the ROPS down on its plates are missing their nuts

 

[McMXi]

That all looks like perfectly normal movement to me, When it reaches the set point and the valve feedback cuts off the valve then the implement momentum creates that bounce at the end of the movement.

That's interesting. So the mass of the rear blade dampens this effect, whereas the PHD with a lot less mass isn't able to?

 

[Stuart_T]

That's interesting. So the mass of the rear blade dampens this effect, whereas the PHD with a lot less mass isn't able to?

I would guess that the rear blade has little bounce because there are no moving parts to wobble/oscillate (?) plus it's shorter. I'd think that any wobble would be exacerbated by the number of "loose" parts plus their distance from the tractor. Not sure about comparitive mass. I think the weight is about the same, around 160 lbs.

 

[Russell King]

That's interesting. So the mass of the rear blade dampens this effect, whereas the PHD with a lot less mass isn't able to?

I think the mass of the PHD would be greater than the blade. I also think the COG of the PHD is further away from the tractor so it probably wants to keep moving more than the blade. Of course I could be completely wrong since I am just viewing videos and not using anything to compare sizes and no way to know the weight of either implement.

Do you see anything about the movement that you are concerned with? I see that same type of jerk movement on my old tractor. But maybe on your tractors the movement is much smoother?

 

[Stuart_T]

I think the mass of the PHD would be greater than the blade. I also think the COG of the PHD is further away from the tractor so it probably wants to keep moving more than the blade. Of course I could be completely wrong since I am just viewing videos and not using anything to compare sizes and no way to know the weight of either implement.

Do you see anything about the movement that you are concerned with? I see that same type of jerk movement on my old tractor. But maybe on your tractors the movement is much smoother?

Speeco shows the Model 70 PHD as 179 lbs. and the 12" auger as 43, so about 220 lbs. The Mahindra blade is 158. The blade is about 42" f-b and the PHD with the boom raised and the auger just off the ground is 67", so I think your analysis may be right.

The only thing that concerns me is the amount of jerking from the PHD when raised and whether there is any risk of damage, or how typical this is. If the lift was as smooth with it attached as it is under little or no load, it would be fine.

 

[BAP]

Try turn down the flow control knob for the 3pt hitch and see if lifting it slower helps. I think you will find that the leverage of the implements that stick out further from the tractor, combined with the moving pieces on the implements are making it worse.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Speeco shows the Model 70 PHD as 179 lbs. and the 12" auger as 43, so about 220 lbs. The Mahindra blade is 158. The blade is about 42" f-b and the PHD with the boom raised and the auger just off the ground is 67", so I think your analysis may be right.

The only thing that concerns me is the amount of jerking from the PHD when raised and whether there is any risk of damage, or how typical this is. If the lift was as smooth with it attached as it is under little or no load, it would be fine.

After following this epic drama for days now I think you need to just grin and bear it.

Dan

 

[Stuart_T]

Try turn down the flow control knob for the 3pt hitch and see if lifting it slower helps. I think you will find that the leverage of the implements that stick out further from the tractor, combined with the moving pieces on the implements are making it worse.

I believe the flow control knob only adjusts the drop speed, not the lift, and I adjust it for eacb implement. I haven't noticed any difference in the lift speed. But yes, the length of the implements no doubt affects the amount of wobble.

I am heading off to the dealer's today to pick up the aforementioned nuts so will ask the shop foreman if they have any suggestions.I have the videos on my phone.

@Dan- You're probably right. I just didn't remember this amount of wobble from using it before but as long as nothing is getting damaged, I can live with it.

 

[McMXi]

Speeco shows the Model 70 PHD as 179 lbs. and the 12" auger as 43, so about 220 lbs. The Mahindra blade is 158. The blade is about 42" f-b and the PHD with the boom raised and the auger just off the ground is 67", so I think your analysis may be right.

Good to know. I had no idea that such a light rear blade was a thing. My brain was stuck on the difference between the SSQA PHD and rear blade that I have, with the PHD probably being 1/3 the weight of the rear blade which weights over 1,000lb.

I hope you manage to get some holes dug and that nothing breaks! I'll be making some exploratory holes this week and might need to upgrade to a rock auger. I hope not since they're expensive.

 

[Stuart_T]

Good to know. I had no idea that such a light rear blade was a thing. My brain was stuck on the difference between the SSQA PHD and rear blade that I have, with the PHD probably being 1/3 the weight of the rear blade which weights over 1,000lb.

I hope you manage to get some holes dug and that nothing breaks! I'll be making some exploratory holes this week and might need to upgrade to a rock auger. I hope not since they're expensive.

I haven't gone through your equipment list carefully but if your rear blade is >1000lb. you have a much bigger tractor than I do!

I spoke with the shop foreman at the local dealer this morning and showed him the videos. He suspects something may be amiss but I'll have to have them look at it. OK to use for the few holes I need to do in the meantime. Won't probably get it in for 2-3 weeks but will poat an addendum here with whatever they find.

 

[McMXi]

I haven't gone through your equipment list carefully but if your rear blade is >1000lb. you have a much bigger tractor than I do!

I spoke with the shop foreman at the local dealer this morning and showed him the videos. He suspects something may be amiss but I'll have to have them look at it. OK to use for the few holes I need to do in the meantime. Won't probably get it in for 2-3 weeks but will poat an addendum here with whatever they find.

I still think it's a geometry issue, maybe a bent pin at the connection between the boom and the yoke or some other issue related to the ability of the linkages to change orientation as the PHD moves through an arc. Regardless of the weight of the PHD, or how far away it is from the tractor, I don't think you're video shows normal operation. But that's just my opinion based on descriptions and a couple of videos.

There are lots of videos on YouTube showing 3-point PHDs in action. This guy is getting some bounce when he raises the PHD but overall it's a smooth movement when he raises it.