Latest B3350 Update

[SDT]

My B3350 is finally "finished" and will be delivered today or tomorrow.

The cylinder head was "rebuilt" including new valve seals to stop oil from getting past the seals/guides, being burnt by the engine, and ending up in the DPF. Do not know what else was done to the cylinder head as the work was done at a Kubota authorized service center.

Additionally, the DPF and reformer were replaced.

Kubota diagnostic software indicates all good and both dealer Sr Tech and Kubota service rep are satisfied that all is well.

Tractor was put on dyno to load to operating temperature so as to force a non-parked regen under load. All went well.

The story is that even a small amount of engine oil past the guides and seals creates an over fueling indication during non-parked (normal) regens resulting in a DPF OT and immediate engine shut down. My dealer has done similar cylinder head work on 3 or 4 other such engines as directed by Kubota. None of these machines has come back with regen problems but the jury is still out.

I was also told, that once engine oil gets into the DPF, the regeneration procedure will not remove it. Accordingly, the DPF was replaced.

FWIW, tractor indicated a bit over 30 PTO HP, but it's a 250 HP dyno so who knows.

I'm cautiously optimistic that all will be well but it will be awhile before I'm confident as I do not put many hours on the 3350.

I'll post back in a few weeks one way or the other.

Edit: Tractor was delivered today, 12 weeks to the day since picked up. Forecast is for rain this evening and the next day or two so won't use it for a few days.

SDT

 

[Oliver]

Good, I hope all's well with your tractor now.

 

[D2Cat]

SDT you have the patience of Job! Hope it is finally correct.

 

[lugbolt]

Hope that fixes it.

That system (reformer) was/is a joke at best, but really the cheapest/easiest way for them to meet Tier IV emissions.

But...here's my take on the entire ordeal (DPF stuff). In this situation, engine oil was the cause of plugged DPF (and I've run into it before as well but on different equipment). Yes the DPF will have to be replaced in order to remedy. Now here's a problem. Tractors use a closed crankcase ventilation system (CCV) similar to what cars/trucks use but tractors don't have a PCV valve, per say. PCV valves generally work off of vacuum and diesels don't have any vacuum so they redesigned it. Anyway, there is always "some" oil vapor that gets into the intake manifold or turbocharger intake, well were does that go? It gets burnt, then goes right out of the engine, through the DPF where it slowly works it's magic. Thank you to the EPA for all this garbage including CCV. I say every one of us write a letter to our congressmen/women and let them know how unhappy we are with the EPA regulations on sub-100hp diesel engines. All diesel engines for that matter.

It's gotten so bad that the local UPS trucks are being switched over to GAS. Yes GM pushrod V8's, I assume 6.2's (may be 5.3's, dunno). But I do know they're going "back" to gasoline from diesel as the constant stop & go operation of the local delivery trucks plugs DPF's quickly, and costs them a ton of money to maintain (and repair). Now understand that shippers have VERY good accountants who figure out the costs; and they've figured out that the overall cost of operation/ownership of the gas powered delivery trucks is cheaper than the diesel powered versions. That speaks volumes in my opinion.

I personally think it's time to eye a gas powered tractor again. People I talked to say no way, they're way too gutless and use way too much fuel, BUT keep in mind that back in the day when gas tractors were the norm, those engines ran on 76 octane fuel, had flathead engines, and used a ton of fuel....half of it going out the tailpipe without being converted into energy. Today's technology with lean burn, etc, can solve that and potentally a gas engine tractor could quite possibly be an answer to this ridiculous DPF and DEF garbage--most of which the manufacturers don't even know how to fix. A sub 100hp tractor with a gas engine would likely be just fine, and quite possibly cheaper to own/operate over a long period of time--particularly after the warranty period is out.

 

[Fordtech86]

Hope that fixes it.

That system (reformer) was/is a joke at best, but really the cheapest/easiest way for them to meet Tier IV emissions.

But...here's my take on the entire ordeal (DPF stuff). In this situation, engine oil was the cause of plugged DPF (and I've run into it before as well but on different equipment). Yes the DPF will have to be replaced in order to remedy. Now here's a problem. Tractors use a closed crankcase ventilation system (CCV) similar to what cars/trucks use but tractors don't have a PCV valve, per say. PCV valves generally work off of vacuum and diesels don't have any vacuum so they redesigned it. Anyway, there is always "some" oil vapor that gets into the intake manifold or turbocharger intake, well were does that go? It gets burnt, then goes right out of the engine, through the DPF where it slowly works it's magic. Thank you to the EPA for all this garbage including CCV. I say every one of us write a letter to our congressmen/women and let them know how unhappy we are with the EPA regulations on sub-100hp diesel engines. All diesel engines for that matter.

It's gotten so bad that the local UPS trucks are being switched over to GAS. Yes GM pushrod V8's, I assume 6.2's (may be 5.3's, dunno). But I do know they're going "back" to gasoline from diesel as the constant stop & go operation of the local delivery trucks plugs DPF's quickly, and costs them a ton of money to maintain (and repair). Now understand that shippers have VERY good accountants who figure out the costs; and they've figured out that the overall cost of operation/ownership of the gas powered delivery trucks is cheaper than the diesel powered versions. That speaks volumes in my opinion.

I personally think it's time to eye a gas powered tractor again. People I talked to say no way, they're way too gutless and use way too much fuel, BUT keep in mind that back in the day when gas tractors were the norm, those engines ran on 76 octane fuel, had flathead engines, and used a ton of fuel....half of it going out the tailpipe without being converted into energy. Today's technology with lean burn, etc, can solve that and potentally a gas engine tractor could quite possibly be an answer to this ridiculous DPF and DEF garbage--most of which the manufacturers don't even know how to fix. A sub 100hp tractor with a gas engine would likely be just fine, and quite possibly cheaper to own/operate over a long period of time--particularly after the warranty period is out.

I agree the emission requirements has taken its toll on the auto side, we have many fleets switching over from diesel to gas. When all this crap first came out the customers blamed the manufacturer, we would always have customers say the hell with that ford, I’m going to trade it for a Chevy/dodge/ whatever. Well guess what, they have the same issues. We lost fleets over that and now getting them back and they are buying gas engines. But the gas world isn’t immune to emissions either. Gasoline particulate filters will be making there way into the gas world. There are already being used in Europe I believe, not sure of any over here yet.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Boy am I glad both my Kubby's are Pre Tier 4....

My good friend and hunting partner Tom, was over yesterday helping me put new half shafts and spindles on the wife's Suburban. He's the Service Manager for the Freightliner-Western Star dealership I retired from and we were talking about Tier 4 emissions compliant Class 8 trucks (we talk about trucks quite a lot actually).

He told me the replacement cost of what they refer to as the 'One Box' is 15 grand. Big trucks combine all the emissions (garbage) in one unit, the DPF, the SCR, all the dosing hardware is all in one combined unit. I know you can pull the DPF and have it cleaned but Tom has told me before that what usually happens is, more than one component fails and then replacement is the only option.

He also manages a small fleet of Fed-Ex contractor trucks. Told me they trade off at a million miles, get whatever they can for the used units and replace with new because at a million, they are on borrowed time and a million miles sounds like a lot but when you run a team operation, coast to coast, a million miles is pretty quick.

He's also told me more than once that 85% of the work the shop does now is emissions related. Modern diesels have become very reliable, the emissions hardware and software isn't.

I'm glad I don't deal with big trucks anymore.

I have to ask, what is a 'reformer'? Never heard of that term before.

Thank the EPA.

 

[SidecarFlip]

I agree the emission requirements has taken its toll on the auto side, we have many fleets switching over from diesel to gas. When all this crap first came out the customers blamed the manufacturer, we would always have customers say the hell with that ford, I’m going to trade it for a Chevy/dodge/ whatever. Well guess what, they have the same issues. We lost fleets over that and now getting them back and they are buying gas engines. But the gas world isn’t immune to emissions either. Gasoline particulate filters will be making there way into the gas world. There are already being used in Europe I believe, not sure of any over here yet.

I see Fords is coming out with a 7.3 pushrod gas motor. What is the skinny on that?

 

[SDT]

Boy am I glad both my Kubby's are Pre Tier 4....

My good friend and hunting partner Tom, was over yesterday helping me put new half shafts and spindles on the wife's Suburban. He's the Service Manager for the Freightliner-Western Star dealership I retired from and we were talking about Tier 4 emissions compliant Class 8 trucks (we talk about trucks quite a lot actually).

He told me the replacement cost of what they refer to as the 'One Box' is 15 grand. Big trucks combine all the emissions (garbage) in one unit, the DPF, the SCR, all the dosing hardware is all in one combined unit. I know you can pull the DPF and have it cleaned but Tom has told me before that what usually happens is, more than one component fails and then replacement is the only option.

He also manages a small fleet of Fed-Ex contractor trucks. Told me they trade off at a million miles, get whatever they can for the used units and replace with new because at a million, they are on borrowed time and a million miles sounds like a lot but when you run a team operation, coast to coast, a million miles is pretty quick.

He's also told me more than once that 85% of the work the shop does now is emissions related. Modern diesels have become very reliable, the emissions hardware and software isn't.

I'm glad I don't deal with big trucks anymore.

I have to ask, what is a 'reformer'? Never heard of that term before.

Thank the EPA.

The reformer is, in effect, a burner between the turbo outlet and the DPF. It injects fuel and air to increase exhaust temperature to "regen" the DPF. It's EPA nonsense, of course, and it's expensive. I was told "$4,000."

More to come when time permits.

SDT

 

[Fordtech86]

I see Fords is coming out with a 7.3 pushrod gas motor. What is the skinny on that?

Just another gas option to add to the line up in the super duty line in my opinion. The diesel emissions is turning people away from them as daily drivers, and down here there is way more trucks on the road then cars it seems. Also believe they chose the 7.3 displacement to leverage hype from the 7.3 diesel. Same thing when they brought back the 5.0 in 2011. Neither engine is related in any way to the original, but it’s a marketing thing in my opinion.

 

[Fordtech86]

And sorry SDT for going off your topic, you are the type of customer I like, somethings are out of our hands as a dealer when you are spending the manufactures money. And it’s getting worse every day (at least in the auto world). Some customers don’t get it, and I feel for them too. I’m a customer too and would hate to spend a lot of money on something that spends more time in the shop then with you.

 

[SDT]

I see Fords is coming out with a 7.3 pushrod gas motor. What is the skinny on that?

Such is inevitable. Others will follow suit unless the federales get wind of the trend.

The federales have badly damaged the LT diesel market and are doing the same thing to the heavy truck market.

The market will do what it can to avoid the insanity. Conversion (back) to gasoline is one of those things.

I've been predicting the re-emergence of gasoline powered tractors for several years. Local/regional mid size truck fleet operators will follow suit but such practices will provide only short term relief. The federales will attack such practices once they take notice.

The good news: Bureaucratic insanity is not sustainable. Reason will return.

The American People have had enough of the insanity. The pendulum has stopped swinging to the left and will eventually swing back to the right with a vengeance. Such is inevitable. Yes, the process will take years but likely far fewer than it took for us to get to where we are now.

There is light at the end of the tunnel and things are looking increasingly promising lately.

But, I digress....

SDT

 

[SDT]

And sorry SDT for going off your topic, you are the type of customer I like, somethings are out of our hands as a dealer when you are spending the manufactures money. And it’s getting worse every day (at least in the auto world). Some customers don’t get it, and I feel for them too. I’m a customer too and would hate to spend a lot of money on something that spends more time in the shop then with you.

No problem at all, FordTech86.

I agree with just about everything that you and Lugbolt have said.

SDT

 

[SidecarFlip]

Just another gas option to add to the line up in the super duty line in my opinion. The diesel emissions is turning people away from them as daily drivers, and down here there is way more trucks on the road then cars it seems. Also believe they chose the 7.3 displacement to leverage hype from the 7.3 diesel. Same thing when they brought back the 5.0 in 2011. Neither engine is related in any way to the original, but it’s a marketing thing in my opinion.

In keeping with my pre emissions rationale, I have a 7.3 in a '97 Ford F350. Good engine, least in my opinion. Easy to work on and reliable. Forged connecting rods too. Mine is juiced up a bit. Old man's toy. Guy across the way has a Duramax with all the emissions junk. He has nothing but issues.

Consumers cannot lay blame on the manufacturers, they didn't do it, the EPA did it.

Kubota didn't do it either, it's all about emissions compliance. Actually, all the tractor builders are in the same leaky boat.

 

[SidecarFlip]

Hopefully, your issues have been addressed and dealt with.

 

[SDT]

In keeping with my pre emissions rationale, I have a 7.3 in a '97 Ford F350. Good engine, least in my opinion. Easy to work on and reliable. Forged connecting rods too. Mine is juiced up a bit. Old man's toy. Guy across the way has a Duramax with all the emissions junk. He has nothing but issues.

Consumers cannot lay blame on the manufacturers, they didn't do it, the EPA did it.

Kubota didn't do it either, it's all about emissions compliance. Actually, all the tractor builders are in the same leaky boat.

Agreed, Flip.

The manufacturers are simply doing what the federales are forcing them to do as best as they can.

It's the consumers who are paying the price (in more ways than one).

Sanity will return eventually.

SDT

 

[mattwithcats]

Emissions reduction with DPF is 80%...

Reduction with no DPF, and using 20% biodiesel, 50%...

I don’t believe the 80% number, I think its a lot less...

While you have to be careful with biodiesel,
it has a cetane of 50 verses 40 for regular,
and has a higher gelling point,
the tradeoff is well worth it...

 

[SidecarFlip]

Emissions reduction with DPF is 80%...

Reduction with no DPF, and using 20% biodiesel, 50%...

I don’t believe the 80% number, I think its a lot less...

While you have to be careful with biodiesel,
it has a cetane of 50 verses 40 for regular,
and has a higher gelling point,
the tradeoff is well worth it...

Bio Diesel is bad stuff. It has an affinity for growing micro organisms and Kubota and other manufacturers don't recommend it for their engines. I bet if you used it and had any warranty issues, Kubota (and most likely other builders) would disallow any warranty claim.

Additionally, I wonder how bio diesel impacts a DPF and regen unit.

When B20 first came out, I ran it in my 7.3. Smelled nice but the algae issue cost me well over a thousand bucks and I did the grunt work myself. Learned the hard way, no more bio diesel for me. Nothing better than dropping the fuel tanks, replacing all the filters, replacing the lift pump and the main pump and the injectors because the algae destroyed them.

Bad stuff.

 

[SDT]

Bio Diesel is bad stuff. It has an affinity for growing micro organisms and Kubota and other manufacturers don't recommend it for their engines. I bet if you used it and had any warranty issues, Kubota (and most likely other builders) would disallow any warranty claim.

Additionally, I wonder how bio diesel impacts a DPF and regen unit.

When B20 first came out, I ran it in my 7.3. Smelled nice but the algae issue cost me well over a thousand bucks and I did the grunt work myself. Learned the hard way, no more bio diesel for me. Nothing better than dropping the fuel tanks, replacing all the filters, replacing the lift pump and the main pump and the injectors because the algae destroyed them.

Bad stuff.

Agreed, Flip.

I won't go near the stuff.

SDT