L245 throttle is sporadic

[chartersj]

I just tightened that injector a little more so the bubbling stopped but is still the same. The throttle seems very touchy down low and seems to work normal at higher rpms. The surging is only from 1100 to 1200 rpms. When you bring the throttle back far enough to get them to drop from there it slowly kills the motor. Just before it dies I push the throttle a little more and it will rev up to around 11-1200 then come down to normal idle. Also i wanted to add it is still hard to start cold. It was above 0 degrees Celsius today and still needed glow plugs cycled 3 or 4 times. After it starts it will start right up Every time after that, but if it sits 15-20 minutes it will be hard to start again and needs the glow plugs to start.

 

[thepumpguysc]

U got a governor problem.. & I wouldn't keep playing w/ it..
U might just get to the point that u cant bring it back down..

 

[chartersj]

U got a governor problem.. & I wouldn't keep playing w/ it..
U might just get to the point that u cant bring it back down..

From what I can tell the governor is behind the injection pump gear in the timing cover. Looks like a big job to get to. Is that common to have to mess with? I never had the injectors tested yet either. When I operate the throttle fast from high to low it seems to work fine. Also when I rev it up close to 3000 rpm it starts to break down or its the rev limiter

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

From what I can tell the governor is behind the injection pump gear in the timing cover. Looks like a big job to get to. Is that common to have to mess with? I never had the injectors tested yet either. When I operate the throttle fast from high to low it seems to work fine. Also when I rev it up close to 3000 rpm it starts to break down or its the rev limiter

Before you do anything else get the injectors tested and rebuilt or replaced.

 

[chartersj]

Before you do anything else get the injectors tested and rebuilt or replaced.

Ok will do. While I find the time to do that, I have been researching the governor in case i have to dig into it that far, and for my own understanding of how it all works...how do you fix or rebuild the governor? Which parts wear out? I see it works on centrifugal force with ball bearings on the injector cam which operates the linkages.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Which parts wear out?

I've never seen one wear out!

If someone was in there and left a part out, that's a more likely scenario.

 

[chartersj]

I've never seen one wear out!

If someone was in there and left a part out, that's a more likely scenario.

That is true too, and very possible with a tractor this old. I did notice the linkage that has the large spring to the speed control arm has basically no tension on it until about 1/3rd throttle and able to move it back and fourth a little bit with my finger, and the arm that controls the rack on the IP has tension all the time.

 

[chartersj]

Another short video

https://youtu.be/7ecJECfk610

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

That looks fine to me, it looks like it's moving like it's meant to.

Have you had the speed control plate off?

And ditch the big rusty spring thats on the throttle rod, it's not supposed to be there.

 

[RCW]

And ditch the big rusty spring thats on the throttle rod, it's not supposed to be there.

Many 'Moline guys will add weights or springs on the linkage from carburetor throttle plate to rod and governor arm to compensate for a sloppy governor, or sloppy internal governor linkages.

I'm wondering if the big rusty spring was put there for the same purpose?

I don't know how these governors work, so take it with a grain of salt....

When I saw an internal spring didn't have much action, made me wonder.

I don't want to go astray, but gasoline MM's are noted for this type of thing, and it really a simple set-up. There can't be much wiggle or slack in all the linkages, and all needs to move free.

 

[chartersj]

I had the speed control plate off when I changed the two springs in there, both where stretched out. The governor and stop spring. Hasn't been off since.
I knew the big ugly rusted spring wasn't original but without it the throttle will not return to idle position. I assume there is suppose to be a spring somewheres else that does the same thing I just have not looked into that issue yet. I have been leaving it disconnected while trying to diagnose the problem I'm still having.

 

[thepumpguysc]

It "looks" as tho its operating MUCH better/smoother than it was..
The gov. works by centrifugal force.. flyweight vs spring force..
An engine rebuild manual should tell u how the get the cover off & rebuild the gov.??
I know on a Duetz there is a tamperproof bolt on the cover..Lower left corner.
There is also an INTERNAL spring tension adjustment that u set w/ a caliper..
I'm going by Deutz gov rebuild experience here.. but hey're basically the same.
There is a "bell crank" between the fly wgts & spring that will get grooved & cause a surge type condition..
We can sit here & guess all week, so until u get the inj. checked out & get a book we're just spinning our wheels..?? U already had the pump done right?

 

[thepumpguysc]

I just thought of something.. on the max fuel setting for your engine.. theres a torque spring adjustment isn't there?? center screw/spring combo.??
Has anyone messed w/ it?? is the tamper cover still on it??

 

[chartersj]

It "looks" as tho its operating MUCH better/smoother than it was..
The gov. works by centrifugal force.. flyweight vs spring force..
An engine rebuild manual should tell u how the get the cover off & rebuild the gov.??
I know on a Duetz there is a tamperproof bolt on the cover..Lower left corner.
There is also an INTERNAL spring tension adjustment that u set w/ a caliper..
I'm going by Deutz gov rebuild experience here.. but hey're basically the same.
There is a "bell crank" between the fly wgts & spring that will get grooved & cause a surge type condition..
We can sit here & guess all week, so until u get the inj. checked out & get a book we're just spinning our wheels..?? U already had the pump done right?

I just thought of something.. on the max fuel setting for your engine.. theres a torque spring adjustment isn't there?? center screw/spring combo.??
Has anyone messed w/ it?? is the tamper cover still on it??

Your right, it is acting better since I put the new springs in and had the IP rebuilt. I'm guessing everything has some wear being as old as it is. Definitely getting the injectors tested as the shop that rebuilt the pump said he could tell it got bad fuel and that the plungers where sticking and had to do something with a spring/springs inside. I will have to look at my manual to see what you mean about the max fuel setting and adjustment. It has obviously been tampered with in different areas, I had to re-wire everything from the starter back as the wiring was the worse I have ever seen, wires twisted together without any tape on them even. This being my first diesel I have worked on I am getting a local diesel guru to have a look at it today to see what he thinks of the symptoms I am experiencing. starting to feel it is a bit over my head at this point lol

 

[thepumpguysc]

I;m glad its getting "better".. at least your not spending your money & NOT seeing results..
Hey, we were ALL over our heads before we tried.!!! {seriously}
& at my age {54} we didn't have camera phones.!!! AND the internet to get service manuals.. We had to GO TO the dealer, order the book, pay for it w/ CASH & wait 2 weeks for it to get in.. drive BACK TO the dealer.. & so forth.. Lol
TODAY, u guys snap a pic.. post it to a website & within seconds someone from 1000 miles away is saying, "no, put the spring on the OTHER side.".. lol..

 

[chartersj]

I;m glad its getting "better".. at least your not spending your money & NOT seeing results..
Hey, we were ALL over our heads before we tried.!!! {seriously}
& at my age {54} we didn't have camera phones.!!! AND the internet to get service manuals.. We had to GO TO the dealer, order the book, pay for it w/ CASH & wait 2 weeks for it to get in.. drive BACK TO the dealer.. & so forth.. Lol
TODAY, u guys snap a pic.. post it to a website & within seconds someone from 1000 miles away is saying, "no, put the spring on the OTHER side.".. lol..

Haha absolutely. The internet is a wonderful thing for diy's. Shop rates are high and hard to justify on an old tractor that's not worth much.
That being said, the mechanic stopped in this AM and he think it's in the governor. After playing with it for an hour and a half adjusting everything, there is slop in the governor while running at low rpms and seems thats why it cannot hold a steady rpm.

 

[chartersj]

I got the front off the tractor last night. I don't have a 3/4 46mm socket to get the crank nut off. only a 1" drive socket with a breaker bar. What is the best way to keep the motor from turning over to break the nut free?

Edit- I found a 1 13/16" wrench and will try that with a pipe wrench on the splines.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I got the front off the tractor last night. I don't have a 3/4 46mm socket to get the crank nut off. only a 1" drive socket with a breaker bar. What is the best way to keep the motor from turning over to break the nut free?

Edit- I found a 1 13/16" wrench and will try that with a pipe wrench on the splines.

I use an impact to spin the nut right off.

You can get the same effect with a wrench, position it so you can smack it with a dead blow or other hammer, one good smack should pop it loose.

 

[chartersj]

I use an impact to spin the nut right off.

You can get the same effect with a wrench, position it so you can smack it with a dead blow or other hammer, one good smack should pop it loose.

I never had an impact with a big enough adapter for the 1" drive socket. So I tried with a dead blow hammer on a breaker bar but the motor would just turn over. With the pipe wrench on the splines I got the nut to break loose with no damage to the splines. The wsm has fairly good instructions on getting to and removing the governor except for a couple things. Does the plate for the rpm cable need to be removed first? Also I'm quite sure the oil filter housing has to come off as well. But the manual isn't very clear on how the hydraulic pump and housing comes off the end of the fuel cam

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Does the plate for the rpm cable need to be removed first? Also I'm quite sure the oil filter housing has to come off as well. But the manual isn't very clear on how the hydraulic pump and housing comes off the end of the fuel cam

Yes take the pate off for the RPM cable, not because it will stop you from taking it off, but it will make reassembly much easier as you will need to line up the tang to the fuel cam.

The oil filter housing is what they call the gear case, and yes taking that off will reveal all the guts, also note under the speed control plate you will see a small spring that attaches the governor to the cover, remove that spring before removing the cover.

Do not remove the hydraulic pump and housing as there is no need for that.