Kubota Slapped With 11M Fine

[jimh406]

Common sense is learner, we're not born with it!!

Common sense is not common, huh!

 

[whitetiger]

Here is a link that includes the facts of the case.
KINCAID v. KUBOTA TRACTOR CORPORATION (2020) | FindLaw

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yeesh, Dr. Laux needs to go back to GRADE SCHOOL and learn HOW TO READ...

“13. Do not allow passengers to ride on any part of the machine at any time.

WHAT part of this says 'it's OK to ride where the kid was ?

if anyone should have been sued ,it's the father for 'parental negligence' as he failed to instruct or otherwise inform his son, how to properly operate the machine, as per the written instructions that Kubota supplied.

 

[GeoHorn]

Here is a link that includes the facts of the case.
KINCAID v. KUBOTA TRACTOR CORPORATION (2020) | FindLaw

That’s a difficult read…. but forging ahead thru it…. it actually makes sense… but mostly from a strictly “legal“ sense that Kubota lost the suit. If I understand it correctly, at first, Kubota sought a “summary Judgment” and won…but the “factual” matter of such lawsuits (as opposed to the “applicable liability law” determination…. SHOULD have been heard by a jury and determined by that jury.
Having the summary-judgement case reviewed under-appeal…. the court found that summary judgement was inappropriate…and the law prescribes that such an appeal must be reviewed by the superior court “in the most favorable“ view toward the plaintiff…. which resulted in a narrow view of how much liability more properly belonged to Kubota rather than the plaintiff. (I.E., the plaintiff knew riding on the SS was dangerous…and knew the sticker warned against that….but the plaintiff may Not have thought about what pinching might occur if the driver/operator raised the loader. Further, the warning stickers are intended to guide/warn the operator…not an unthinking or uncaring rider. Additionally, the sticker..although warning against riders…did not warn the operator of the possibility of “pinching” of a rider if the loader were raised.

I agree that “common sense” should have prevailed…. and the rider was cavalier about his own safety in riding the SS… but likely neither the rider Or the operator had considered all the possible consequences…and the Kansas Law DID require the mfr’r to warn of all possibles….and failed to do so. While that is …1- the way I read it…. 2- I still think the bottom line is you can’t trust idiots to operato equipment or ….3- not to sue you for their being stupid.

Kubota should have risked a jury trial instead of asking for summary judgment.

Addendum: Re my earlier post about tree-warning sign in the Abbott case: Looking back thru my emails from years ago …it appears I relied upon an email from my sister in which she sent description of Abbott’s case she found in “social media”…. (FB/Twitter) …. sources I NEVER visit or trust…but I believed at the time what she sent…and have never reviewed it until now.. It seems that was anti-Abbott political hype, and no sources for support of that can be found. My apologies for furthering that particular untruth.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

still ,goes back to section/item #13. seems pretty darn CLEAR to me....

Perhaps what Kubota will now do is put sticker, no PAINT, warning labels in RED ( not yellow ) "That DEATH and/or injury WILL result from using this device in ANY manner"

Taken to the nth degree, if you loan your GMC truck to someone who uses it to pull his trailer, and he doesn't cross his chains, he can sue and WIN against GMC, as they did not tell him to cross the chains !!!

 

[GeoHorn]

still ,goes back to section/item #13. seems pretty darn CLEAR to me....

Perhaps what Kubota will now do is put sticker, no PAINT, warning labels in RED ( not yellow ) "That DEATH and/or injury WILL result from using this device in ANY manner"

Taken to the nth degree, if you loan your GMC truck to someone who uses it to pull his trailer, and he doesn't cross his chains, he can sue and WIN against GMC, as they did not tell him to cross the chains !!!

That case repeatedly uses the terms “manufacturer, seller, supplier”

Makes Me wonder if I should ever-again loan-out my stuff.

 

[Flintknapper]

That case repeatedly uses the terms “manufacturer, seller, supplier”

Makes Me wonder if I should ever-again loan-out my stuff.

Absolutely with you on that (loaning of equipment). Our society has become so litigious....it warrants careful forethought.

 

[Flintknapper]

Perhaps what Kubota will now do is put sticker, no PAINT, warning labels in RED ( not yellow ) "That DEATH and/or injury WILL result from using this device in ANY manner"

Seems there might two solutions.

1. Make all equipment a virtual billboard of warning labels.

2. Remove all such labels and let the 'stupid' people slowly wipe themselves out. A self correcting problem. Could take a while....but might be worth it.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

My vote is for #2. NONE of my other tractors( all pre 1960 ) have ANY warning labels, couple 'operational ones'.
Have to admit my BX23s has several missing warning labels ,after 5 years of use and a few power washes....

Now wondering if
guns will need labels on them like 'don't point in you own face, or others' ....,
knives will need engraved labels on them as well ??
New 'lemon law'... to be firmly attached to all lemons... 'do not administer juice from this lemon into your eyes'.......

man, tell your kids to become lawyers ! They're going to get rich ,fast !!!

 

[Foxrunfarms]

I can't say a whole lot but I'm in the middle of a suite after being seriously injured by a 16 year old driver while I working construction. Lawsuits are nothing but reading between the fine lines manipulating those involved and covering your ass. I wasn't even Landed at the trauma center yet and whats left of my phone was ringing. Listening to the voice-mail a few days later. It's the kids insurance. Wanting a recorded statement....of course when I'm in shock and could leave out key points, they wanted to know if I had signs up, cones out around my truck, flashing lights on the truck and trailer, and a vest on..........luckily I did because they would've said " it's not our clients fault he ran you over, you didn't do xyz to be out of danger ". Insurance companies like to use " act of God a lot too" . All I'll add is those 1800 lawyer commercials are in accurate. You need to prove every cent of your injuries and pain and suffering even then you won't get back what you lost for time, mobility, wages or anything extra.

In Kubota case. No sticker, they didn't cover their ass. It's not right but that's the fine line of lawsuits.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Insurance companies like to use " act of God a lot too"
They better pray real good if they ever try to pull that one on me. I'll have my day in court and win.

Common sense says '#13' is all that's needed. Heck, there's NO sticker saying 'check oil before starting engine', so can I sue Kubota for 11 mill when engine seizes up as drain plug was a little bit loose and no oil in the sump ??

 

[jimh406]

I think we need more generic stickers.

Do not use this machine if you are stupid.

Use this machine at your own risk.

Not responsible for injuries or accidents.

Only professionals should use this equipment.

Something like these.

 

[Daylight]

I'm sorry, but as far as I know New South Wales is not a part of Europe...

There simply are no such markings on any license plates in the EU. UK all-electric vehicles get a green strip on the plate (not as a warning, but rather for propaganda purposes (see https://www.carwow.co.uk/blog/green-number-plates-explained#gref), and in Norway they start with an E, but that's all, and both countries are not in the EU.

re: warning labels.
brings up what i have recently experienced in much of Europe.
much of Europe now require EV (battery and hybrid) vehicles to carry warning labels to identify to other drivers, public parking authorities, condo's/stratas, emergency services, pedestrians, etc... that an EV or hybrid is nearby.

So if an ICE doesn't want to park nearby, or let inside an indoor parkade, etc... electric is easily identifiable.

View attachment 120053

 

[fried1765]

But disparagement of the left/liberal is grounds for thread deletion/"vacation"/banning?

No!...No! ...No! ......Republicans (conservatives) are EVIL !!!

 

[Foxrunfarms]

This kid was a worker on a job site when this happened - he and another teen were being transported to and from a work area.

It's well known that young people are more likely to be hurt/injured and that proper procedures, policies, and yes even stickers and signage all help prevent injuries.

The article makes no mention of an OSHA payment or a business liability but I assume they would have a role or a payout here as well.

In any case this here is a young man who made a poor decision and is now facing a life in a wheelchair or worse. How many of us have done similar or worse and walked away. I'm glad he has been compensated, this may allow him to live to his normal life expectancy.

With my mishap it was 0% my fault or the employers and I was parked on a public street unloading equipment to work at the house I was in front of/ the job site. The 3rd party driver wasn't paying attention, ignored signs, cones, my bright vest and is held liable but since I was punched in on company time it was related to work related, and the company got docked for a serious accident/high medical bills and I received workers comp benefits. Not 100% right in my book but now the company, workers, comp and myself can individually go after the 3rd party to get reimbursed.

Being on a job site opens up a whole scenario now for that employer being involved with the Kubota case.
There are very good points made of how often do we cut corners and nothing happens or those late nights speeding down back country roads in high-school, we all probably have our stories of cheating deal or wonder why we're still here. Maybe this kid did this 1000 times, now at 1001 it caught up to him. Being young that's his whole live that got taken away.........at the same point he should've thought about that......." should I or shouldn't I" but then there's the famous line of " what are the odds"

The day of my accident that was the the 3rd to last thought I had " Should I put cones out? It's not a busy street, WHAT ARE THE ODDS? ........well I better to cover my @$$ "..........2 minutes later my life changed.

I lost 50% range of motion in 1 leg and have constant back pain. I couldn't return to my old job, had to take a very less paying job, don't really enjoy my hobby farm or tractors much anymore with the pain, I can't chase my son around, get on the floor and crawl around with him, I lag behind keeping up on family trips, don't sleep well at night cause of the flashbacks, and then usually grouchy. No amount of money will take away that day or bring back everything I lost out on. Same will go with this kid.

 

[NCL4701]

Makes Me wonder if I should ever-again loan-out my stuff.

From the standpoint of potential liability and potential lawsuits: no.

Even if a suit has no merit, fighting and winning is normally very time consuming and extremely expensive.

Not a close call at all on the loaning issue. No.

 

[Foxrunfarms]

From the standpoint of potential liability and potential lawsuits: no.

Even if a suit has no merit, fighting and winning is normally very time consuming and extremely expensive.

Not a close call at all on the loaning issue. No.

I use to pull a float for the local animal shelter in holiday parades. Even going 5mph there were enough close calls of trashy parents telling their 8 kids to run out infront of a vehicle to get the last tootsie roll I stopped doing it for liability issues.

My son's school asks me each year to barrow a tractor and haywagon for their homecoming float. I look like a jerk and say no. Even if someone else is driving it, it could come down to me that it was still my stuff or I didn't give the operator an 8 hour course with test or have a multipoint inspection done of the haywagon at the dealership.

What are the odds that something will happen, but there's that 0.0001 chance it could and you could lose everything.

 

[fried1765]

still ,goes back to section/item #13. seems pretty darn CLEAR to me....

Perhaps what Kubota will now do is put sticker, no PAINT, warning labels in RED ( not yellow ) "That DEATH and/or injury WILL result from using this device in ANY manner"

Taken to the nth degree, if you loan your GMC truck to someone who uses it to pull his trailer, and he doesn't cross his chains, he can sue and WIN against GMC, as they did not tell him to cross the chains !!!

Some here on OTT do not believe that chains not crossed is negligence!
Let them beware, .......or bear the $$$$ consequences!

 

[DustyRusty]

It is a good thing that advice given on a forum can't come back on the poster for being bad advice. On 2 automobile forums that I read, if someone gives bad advice, one of the more knowledgeable persons will correct the bad advice and set the record straight. There was one fellow who would read a question, do a quick Google search for an answer, and then post it. More often than not, the advice that he was posting was either incomplete or just wrong. Even after he had been warned a few times that his advice was bad, he continued. He was banned for a week the first time, and the next time he got a lifetime ban.

 

[Foxrunfarms]

It is a good thing that advice given on a forum can't come back on the poster for being bad advice. On 2 automobile forums that I read, if someone gives bad advice, one of the more knowledgeable persons will correct the bad advice and set the record straight. There was one fellow who would read a question, do a quick Google search for an answer, and then post it. More often than not, the advice that he was posting was either incomplete or just wrong. Even after he had been warned a few times that his advice was bad, he continued. He was banned for a week the first time, and the next time he got a lifetime ban.

Forums are very nice and seems like everyone has something to offer.......good and bad and people have their way of doing things in different parts of the area but you need to take the advice with a grain of salt or after being on them for awhile you get a feel on who's a good source. I'll be 100% honest I see questions, things rigged together or advice given on here sometimes that can damage a machine or injure a person and it sends chills down my back .

There was a farm forum I was on and a guy cut a v into a push mower and replaced the grass blades with a saw blade as a mini walk behind brush hog. The post kept getting removed because the mediator didn't want people copying that idea getting hurt and coming back saying I saw it done on the xyz forum.