Now that I own a B2601 I'm considering getting a Kubota ZTR and selling my 2yr old JD residential ZTR. Have not had a single problem with the JD. Not sure if getting the residential Kubota ztr is worth the extra dollars. I rarely see any Kubota ztr's in my area. Your thoughts are appreciated.
JD to Kubota ZTR
- Thread starter Pondmeadows984
- Start date
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Generally speaking the 'colour' of the machine doesn't dictate QUALITY. No brand is better, I've worked on all 'colours' for the past 3 decades.
This gets down to simple pencil/paper comparisons.
You write down what the green machine cost( include taxes !) and then see what a 2-3 year old one is worth( NOT selling $, true cash deal $$ !). Now write down the true cost of the orange EQUAL machine(same HP, deck, features). See what the difference is.....that's the bottom line.
Say the green cost you 5,000,but now worth 4,500. The orange is 6000 ,'out the door'. 6,000-4500 is 1,500. So IF you sell and buy, it's cost you $750 per year to 'rent' the green machine. OK, don't KNOW the real numbers but you need to do the 'math'.
Don't just say the math in your mind, WRITE IT DOWN ! We can make better choice when we SEE the numbers.
As for WHEN to buy/sell, obviously machine are higher priced in Spring than Fall. So you should buy in Fall, sell in Spring
This gets down to simple pencil/paper comparisons.
You write down what the green machine cost( include taxes !) and then see what a 2-3 year old one is worth( NOT selling $, true cash deal $$ !). Now write down the true cost of the orange EQUAL machine(same HP, deck, features). See what the difference is.....that's the bottom line.
Say the green cost you 5,000,but now worth 4,500. The orange is 6000 ,'out the door'. 6,000-4500 is 1,500. So IF you sell and buy, it's cost you $750 per year to 'rent' the green machine. OK, don't KNOW the real numbers but you need to do the 'math'.
Don't just say the math in your mind, WRITE IT DOWN ! We can make better choice when we SEE the numbers.
As for WHEN to buy/sell, obviously machine are higher priced in Spring than Fall. So you should buy in Fall, sell in Spring
I don't own a ztr but I have a couple of different friends and a family member all of whom have their own landscape business. Generally in my area, the commercial guys don't use either JD or Kubota for their ztr's and I Iive in an agricultural area where their tractors and dealerships are very prevalent. They use models that are from a dedicated mower manufacturer. Scag, Hustler, etc. In my area I never see a professional landscapers trailer have a JD or Kubota mower on them. Tractor yes, mower no. This tells me a lot. John Deere and Kubota are tractor manufacturers who also make ztr's. If I was going to spend the money on a new machine, I'd at least want to compare with dedicated mower manufacturers first.
I have been running an Exmark since 2008. Normal maintenance. This past year rebuilt the entire mower deck with all new bearings etc. Runs as good as the day I bought it. Why would you sell a 2 year old ZTR in the first place? Did Mr. Jones move in next door to you?
Around here the contractors all use either Kubota Diesel commercial ZTRs or the small stand-ons. Ive had a 2010 ZD326 since new with pretty much zero issues. Built like a tank, good fuel economy, fast and very reliable machine. That seems to be the general consensus among Kubota ZTR owners. On the minus end they are heavy, can have a harsh ride on bumpy ground and can easily tear up turf in turns.
With regards to color and quality I disagree. I would never buy Cub Cadet or similar homeowner quality machines because they arent built to last. If you can buy it at homedepot then you probably arent getting a good quality machine.
Unless you are mowing serious acreage and need to save time and make more money why sell the JD ZTR?
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Hay Mike
My house rider is a 20 year old Cub Cadet(made by MTD),still running strong and cuts/bags grass 1-2 times a week no problems(1/2 ac)..meanwhile neighbours 3 year old JD died due to hydrostat frying ! HUGE known problem as JD cheapened the guts of the TT hydro..it was designed to fail. I got the twin of it with <100hrs and rebuilt the hydro then sold it.
What's interesting is that Cub is made by MTD, along with 8 or 9 other brands. MTD mixes/changes parts between them, the Cub has grease fittings on the deck spindles while others don't.
I know there's good and bad ones but with reasonable care, ANY of them will survive for decades.
My house rider is a 20 year old Cub Cadet(made by MTD),still running strong and cuts/bags grass 1-2 times a week no problems(1/2 ac)..meanwhile neighbours 3 year old JD died due to hydrostat frying ! HUGE known problem as JD cheapened the guts of the TT hydro..it was designed to fail. I got the twin of it with <100hrs and rebuilt the hydro then sold it.
What's interesting is that Cub is made by MTD, along with 8 or 9 other brands. MTD mixes/changes parts between them, the Cub has grease fittings on the deck spindles while others don't.
I know there's good and bad ones but with reasonable care, ANY of them will survive for decades.
Probably the big question is why you're considering replacing it.
If it's because you like the colour of machines in your shed to match, then in my mind not a great spend of money, but if you have the money why not.
If it's because of a feature of the machine, then let us know what you'e trying to do and what features you think might be better, then people can comment.
If it's because of quality - i.e. sell the JD while it's still worth good money and before it breaks, and buy a Kubota which you expect might last many years, then it probably comes down to what model JD you have (I think their low end ones are built for them and of indifferent quality), and what model of Kubota you'd expect to buy (the Kubotas even at the low end I hear are reasonable quality, but still, there's higher and lower quality models, which is usually reflected in the price.
Of course, getting an F series mower would be a great idea, if you have the money.
How much lawn are you mowing?
If it's because you like the colour of machines in your shed to match, then in my mind not a great spend of money, but if you have the money why not.
If it's because of a feature of the machine, then let us know what you'e trying to do and what features you think might be better, then people can comment.
If it's because of quality - i.e. sell the JD while it's still worth good money and before it breaks, and buy a Kubota which you expect might last many years, then it probably comes down to what model JD you have (I think their low end ones are built for them and of indifferent quality), and what model of Kubota you'd expect to buy (the Kubotas even at the low end I hear are reasonable quality, but still, there's higher and lower quality models, which is usually reflected in the price.
Of course, getting an F series mower would be a great idea, if you have the money.
How much lawn are you mowing?
Neighbor bought a CC PRO ZTR same time as me and made fun of me for spending 2x as much as he did. After 3 years of constant breakdowns and weld repairs he ditched it and bought a JD commercial diesel ZTR. Who is saving money now?
Father in law has owned 3 CC ride ons in the same amount of time Ive had mine because his machines have self destructed...non-greasable moving parts wearing out, flimsy metal parts constantly fatigue cracking, engine and electrical problems...
I owned a CC walk behind snow blower POS with flimsy stamped metal parts and everything just wore out or fatigued itself to death. Small gas motors are nothing but trouble for starting and keeping running.
Another neighbor brings his homedespot JD mower and deck over couple time every year for me to weld fatigue cracks in cheap and flimsy stamped metal parts.
Sorry but MTD and CC are junk, lightweight homeowner quality stuff with features like non-greasable moving parts, tin foil stamped parts and lightweight die cast aluminum components not designed to handle anything but homeowner who uses it once a week on a smooth manicured lawn and replaces it every 3-5 years.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
The major issue with 'thin tin decks' self destructing is owners NOT properly cleaning them after they use them. I've seen 100s of them in the past 33 years and the #1 issue is no one cleanes them! Wads of wet grass built up in the deck, same on top leads to rusting cause the PC 'paint' comes off. I usually get 1/2 -full 5 gallon bucket of heavy,wet, stinky,moldy grass from a deck in for service.Can be 30-60# of 'compost' on the deck ! Naturally they never sharpen the blades or grease the spindles, let alone steering Zerks or put air in the tires. YES MTD ( Bolens, CTC,Cub Cadet, Troybilt,Yardworks, etc.) are an affordable rider, BUT if properly maintained will provide very good service over 2-3 decades. Abuse ANY color, and it won't be happy....
As for gas engines being a PITA, new ones should be run with ZERO Ethonal( Shell premium up here), and alL should have some kind of 'gas additive'. Changing the oil and filter kinda helps too !
Just don't me going on useless 2 stoke jokes...they alL should be destroyed !
As for gas engines being a PITA, new ones should be run with ZERO Ethonal( Shell premium up here), and alL should have some kind of 'gas additive'. Changing the oil and filter kinda helps too !
Just don't me going on useless 2 stoke jokes...they alL should be destroyed !
BigG
Well-known member
Equipment
l2501, FEL, BB, Rotary cutter, rake,spreader, roller, etc. New Holland TL80 A
It is hard to find good quality built homeowner machines. MTD and others have bought up the good names and have cheapened the products until they are next to worthless. Compare a CC of today to one from 40 years ago. There is a night and day difference in the construction. The older models had their own problems but a the same time they were repairable. You had a clutch and a driveshaft just like the big boys. Today we get stamp metal pulleys and v-belts.
Look at the story of Wheelhorse. A fine machine that was basically unchanged for years. Heavy steel frame, strong cast iron transmission, cast or turned v-belt pulleys have morphed into stamp metal and plastic pieces of Toro junk.
Find a Gravely that is cast metal stoutly built and multi-functional and it will be an old one. They started to use other engines built by outside suppliers but they were still Gravely. Now stamped metal and built as cheaply as can be built.
The things we seam to worry about now include how many cup holders or cell phone charging ports. I do not need a $10,000 lawn mowing high speed hold on while I get bounced to death ZTR. I do not want to go to engineering school to learn how to repair a lawnmower.
I do not live in a pipe dream but could some one build a simple, safe, repairable, mower-garden tractor that can do more then mow the yard? Could someone build a reproduction of an old Cub Cadet, Wheelhorse, Gravely engineered machine? Solid, heavy, simple with the good side of the improvements. Easier to change implements or high rpm mowers might be nice. I would love to be able to buy a garden sized tractor that could still be around for my grandkids to use. One can only hope.
Look at the story of Wheelhorse. A fine machine that was basically unchanged for years. Heavy steel frame, strong cast iron transmission, cast or turned v-belt pulleys have morphed into stamp metal and plastic pieces of Toro junk.
Find a Gravely that is cast metal stoutly built and multi-functional and it will be an old one. They started to use other engines built by outside suppliers but they were still Gravely. Now stamped metal and built as cheaply as can be built.
The things we seam to worry about now include how many cup holders or cell phone charging ports. I do not need a $10,000 lawn mowing high speed hold on while I get bounced to death ZTR. I do not want to go to engineering school to learn how to repair a lawnmower.
I do not live in a pipe dream but could some one build a simple, safe, repairable, mower-garden tractor that can do more then mow the yard? Could someone build a reproduction of an old Cub Cadet, Wheelhorse, Gravely engineered machine? Solid, heavy, simple with the good side of the improvements. Easier to change implements or high rpm mowers might be nice. I would love to be able to buy a garden sized tractor that could still be around for my grandkids to use. One can only hope.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
BigG, sadly it'll never happen.
In the 'big picture', most people are just scraping by and well, look for 'deals', the bottom line, a low sticker price as it's a reflection of the economy. Mfrs need to SELL products to stay in business and right or wrong, cheaper ones SELL. Whole lot easier to sell 10 , $1000 riders than ONE $10,000 rider.
What's interesting to me is that MTD do put better parts into Cub Cadets than CTC riders. Cast iron front axle vs. stamped steel, grease ftgs on spindles( same casting BTW), so you do get a 'better' machine for the money.
What's really crazy is the electronics in a rider. Some guv agency or 'group' says can't backup to mow,so stuff is added($$), then a 'temporary' mow while in revese feature is added($$$$) to get people to buy THAT rider. Far too complicated and expensive for NO good reason.....
If you want a lifetime rider buy a 40 year old one, properly restore it,then maintain as it should be, it'll outlive you and the grankids !
In the 'big picture', most people are just scraping by and well, look for 'deals', the bottom line, a low sticker price as it's a reflection of the economy. Mfrs need to SELL products to stay in business and right or wrong, cheaper ones SELL. Whole lot easier to sell 10 , $1000 riders than ONE $10,000 rider.
What's interesting to me is that MTD do put better parts into Cub Cadets than CTC riders. Cast iron front axle vs. stamped steel, grease ftgs on spindles( same casting BTW), so you do get a 'better' machine for the money.
What's really crazy is the electronics in a rider. Some guv agency or 'group' says can't backup to mow,so stuff is added($$), then a 'temporary' mow while in revese feature is added($$$$) to get people to buy THAT rider. Far too complicated and expensive for NO good reason.....
If you want a lifetime rider buy a 40 year old one, properly restore it,then maintain as it should be, it'll outlive you and the grankids !
Jay, thats what I have done. I have two case 224s. I grew up mowing with them on our family farm. I don’t use them for mowing anymore though.
My thinking is that if you have much grass to mow, moving up from a residential ZTR to a better commercial Kubota (or any brand) ZTR might be a good move. Assuming your JD is still in good shape you'll recoup much of what you paid for it.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
I'm thinking if you have that much grass to cut ( acres ??), sell the mower, get a plow, grow veggies and MAKE money not spend it.
I tore up 1/2 acre+-,let wife 'do hr thing' and she makes 2-3K every year+ fill 4-5 families freeezers FULL, every year....also grow prize winnng pumpkins too !
My life is getting shorter every day to sit on a rider cutting grass..then agin , 'differnt strokes for differnt folks ' ?
I tore up 1/2 acre+-,let wife 'do hr thing' and she makes 2-3K every year+ fill 4-5 families freeezers FULL, every year....also grow prize winnng pumpkins too !
My life is getting shorter every day to sit on a rider cutting grass..then agin , 'differnt strokes for differnt folks ' ?
Well the JD is the Home Depot version and it has been trouble-free for three years. One reason to part with JD is my daughter and son-in-law recently bought two acres and will need a good mower in the Spring. Thought I might help them out and get a heavier-duty mower for myself in the process. I work with two people who currently own the Kubota ZTR's and are very happen with them.
freewheel3
Active member
Equipment
MX5000DT LA852, BX1800D, B6000DT, B6200HSTD, B7100HSTD, L185, T1700HX, ZD1211
First, I'm a Kubota addict, so my opinion is biased and needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but I have several Kubotas and they are all great, durable machines.
I bought a Kubota ZD1211 ztr last spring. It is a beast and has been flawless, 72" deck on it and I don't even slow down in tall grass. I now mow in 4 Hrs what used to take both the wife and I, 8 Hrs, me on my B6200 with a 54" and the wife on her T1700HX with a 44".
I still use the B6200 to do the ditches and the wife uses hers around the house in the tighter areas.
Kubotas are pricey units but they have great resale value, are built tough and with proper maintenance and a roof over them, they will last forever.
Heck, my B6200 is at least 35 years old and the wife's is 25 years old, both still in great shape.
In 2003 I bought a Cub Cadet M48 Tank. My neighbors thought I was nuts...paying $5K for a commercial mower to cut my 3 residential lots. Today...at 17 years of age, my nephew uses it to cut his place. Mower has been through it's share of blades, tires and belts....maybe a couple of idler pulleys, but otherwise cuts faster and better than a brand new Home Depot Special. I bought a ZD1211 last year from a fellow in a bind and WOWZA..... its even better than the old Cub. The ZD1211 is a $13K commercial mower - - and it mows like it. I love mine, on the flip side though, I do see that a fellwo can buy a lot of Home Depot mowers for that.
Thanks to all who have replied. At this point I am planning to buy orange but will not be buying new. Hope to find a nice deal on a lightly used one.
Not for OP but anyone else, look for an old Ingersoll, that's one in picture below. There are a lot of them around. Mine is at least 30 years old and going strong. Only reasons I got the B2650 were the power steering and the cab. You can still get parts. Lot of attachments.