Hydraulic connectors on a BX2380 or in general.

Mlarv

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BX23S
Jan 19, 2020
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I have a kind of stupid question about these connectors. I have the BX2380 and want to learn a bit more about the hydraulic connectors. What type are they? Is there a good resource on how to rebuild them or repair them?

I am looking into the no warranty period and what I should keep around, so I can repair these things.
 

NCL4701

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In general, two types of fittings: Pioneer and flat face. Most small ag/utility tractors have Pioneer fittings. You should be able to confirm type and size via a sizing chart like this:


If you have one leaking from the quick connect part (not the threads) first step is to clean it. If that doesn’t work, changing the O-ring in the female fitting sometimes fixes it if there’s a nick in the O-ring. The correct hardness and material type is required. Once you have the correct type and size fitting you can source the O-rings. This is an example:


Only method of removal I’m aware of is using a pick to remove/install. Steel picks are cheap and pretty easy to source. Personally, I don’t much like using a steel pick on a steel fitting as I really don’t want to nick the fitting. Non-steel picks are available in brass and glass reinforced nylon. Example:


Others may have more detailed knowledge of your specific machine.
 
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DustyRusty

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When a fitting starts to leak, it is faster and less aggravating to just replace it. Finding the correct rubber "O" ring is next to impossible, and the manufacturers will not share the technical information for you to purchase such an inexpensive part. They would rather sell you a new part.
 
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irash

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Kubota bx1880
Feb 4, 2022
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49089
If you are talking about the couplers that connect the loader to the tractor (quad manifold) you can leave the tractor quad on the tractor and discard the top (loader quad) .Here is a list of comparable flat face (female end) couplers that will interchange (connect) to the quad manifold tractor end.
1644253920100.jpeg
 

irash

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Kubota bx1880
Feb 4, 2022
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I replaced my loader upper quad manifold with 4-3/8JIC x 1/4 NPT fittings and 4- Stucchi FIRG part STU 800801000 flat face connectors. No more leaks and the bucket stays un now.
 

SRRGC1

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My BX23S TLB, which is an 80 series, came with the flat face on both FEL and BH. My BX1870, 70 series, came with the pioneer. "O" rings can be replaced on the pioneers FM's. Unsure about the flat face. Typically, not as many issues with flat face as with the pioneers. I suspect this is reason for the switch.
 

snoophawk

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kubota bx23s and kubota kx033-4
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If you are talking about the couplers that connect the loader to the tractor (quad manifold) you can leave the tractor quad on the tractor and discard the top (loader quad) .Here is a list of comparable flat face (female end) couplers that will interchange (connect) to the quad manifold tractor end. View attachment 74617
Here's my question. Does flow rate matter?
Because on that list Summit fittings have a flow rate of 6.3gpm but all the rest are between 3gpm(parker) and 4.5gpm(Eaton). The BX has a flow rate of just over 6gpm minute so does that mean that only the Summit ones will work properly or doesn't it matter?
 

GreensvilleJay

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yes and yes.... the Summit ones would allow the hydraulics to function as they were designed, the others would still allow SOME oil to flow, but 'operations' would be slower
 

snoophawk

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yes and yes.... the Summit ones would allow the hydraulics to function as they were designed, the others would still allow SOME oil to flow, but 'operations' would be slower
Thank you for the information. I was curious. I'm not a hydraulics guy but would love to learn more as I do love playing(working) on my BX.
 

TheOldHokie

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Here's my question. Does flow rate matter?
Because on that list Summit fittings have a flow rate of 6.3gpm but all the rest are between 3gpm(parker) and 4.5gpm(Eaton). The BX has a flow rate of just over 6gpm minute so does that mean that only the Summit ones will work properly or doesn't it matter?
No - they will all work. Pumping 6 GPM into 1/4" hiose is already well over the industry standard for hose sizing.

The flow rating is based on the velocity of the oil as it travels through the coupler/hose. Slower is better. For pressure lines the recommended velocity range is 7 - 15 feet per second. So if you are using 7 FPM you get one flow rating. If you are using 15 FPM you get a different flow rating. If you are willing to accept 20 FPM you get an even higher flow rating.

Couplers are also rated based on the pressure drop across the connection If you are willing to tolerate a higher pressure drop you get a higher flow rating. If you demand a lower pressure drop you get a lower flow rating.

Here is a nomograph that makes it easy to do the velocity part. Print it out. Then connect any two points on any two of the vertical scales with a ruler and read the result off the third. The area in gray is an example of its use sizing hose for a 13 GPM flow. I have drawn in lines for a 6 GPM flow. Reading off the middle scale the flow rate requires a minimum of 3/8" hose.

Dan

nomograph.png
 
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GreensvilleJay

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hmm. No - they will all work.

How can something rated at 3.5 GPM actually allow 6GPM ?
Curious as I'm just going 'by the numbers' posted ,haven't seen where they came from.

'a' gets paid $3.50 per hour, 'B' gets paid $6.00 per hour, you're saying 'a' gets paid 6 bux ??
 

TheOldHokie

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hmm. No - they will all work.

How can something rated at 3.5 GPM actually allow 6GPM ?
Curious as I'm just going 'by the numbers' posted ,haven't seen where they came from.

'a' gets paid $3.50 per hour, 'B' gets paid $6.00 per hour, you're saying 'a' gets paid 6 bux ??
The rating has nothing to do with how much it can physically flow. It is based on the pressure drop across the interface and and the oil velocity in the hoses that any given flow will produce. The rating is the maximum flow that the coupler or hose can accomodate and still keep velocity and pressure drop to a minimum. If you exceed that rate the oil will simply travel too fast and generaye a lor of back pressure.

Your hydraulic system uses a fixed displacement pump. If it is producing 6 GPM that oil will be forced through the system regardless of the size of the hose or coupler. It has nowhere else to go. What you dont want is so much restriction that the oil gets hot from the high speed friction and back pressure caused by undersizing the couplers and pipes.

In the case of your grapple the flow through the couplers and hose is very intermittent and you can live with higher than "normal" velocities and pressure drops.

Knowing a flow rating without knowing what pressure drop or velocity it is based on is meaningless. Retailers only tell you part of the story. The OEM catalog pages for the couplers will tell you the full story with graphs showing the pressure drop vs flow and what they are using as the basis for their rating.

Clear as mud?

Dan
 
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TheOldHokie

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Sometimes a picture is worth a lot of words. This is the flow data from Faster's catalog page for their ANV (ISO 7241-A ) agricultural couplers. I placed little green markers on each flow curve at the place they publish as the rated flow. If we look at the line for the -04 (1/4") coupler their published number is 8 LPM (2.11 GPM). Reading across the graph to the right we see that at that flow rate there will be a 25 PSI pressure drop through the coupler. Further up that -04 line you will find a red marker at the 6 GPM flow rate. The coupler can physically convey that flow rate but reading across to the right we see that at that flow rate the pressure drop through the coupler increases to something in excess of 150 PSI. That is a hefty pressure drop but in the grapple application where the flow is momentary and infrequent its perfectly usable but not ideal. If the application were a hydraulic motor with a 2000 PSI line pressure and 100% duty cycle it would likely become a problem.

Hopefully that is a little clearer than mud.

Dan

Faster_ANV_Flow_Data.png
 

snoophawk

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kubota bx23s and kubota kx033-4
Feb 10, 2022
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michigan
Sometimes a picture is worth a lot of words. This is the flow data from Faster's catalog page for their ANV (ISO 7241-A ) agricultural couplers. I placed little green markers on each flow curve at the place they publish as the rated flow. If we look at the line for the -04 (1/4") coupler their published number is 8 LPM (2.11 GPM). Reading across the graph to the right we see that at that flow rate there will be a 25 PSI pressure drop through the coupler. Further up that -04 line you will find a red marker at the 6 GPM flow rate. The coupler can physically convey that flow rate but reading across to the right we see that at that flow rate the pressure drop through the coupler increases to something in excess of 150 PSI. That is a hefty pressure drop but in the grapple application where the flow is momentary and infrequent its perfectly usable but not ideal. If the application were a hydraulic motor with a 2000 PSI line pressure and 100% duty cycle it would likely become a problem.

Hopefully that is a little clearer than mud.

Dan

View attachment 74811
So in regards to the new SA10 post hole auger by landpride that requires 4-10 gpm flow would the couplers still work or would the higher PSI cause an issue?
Also I would like to replace my quick connect block with individual flat face connectors. I know the loaders 4 hoses are not full flow all the time but would the max lift be affected?
 

North Idaho Wolfman

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So in regards to the new SA10 post hole auger by landpride that requires 4-10 gpm flow would the couplers still work or would the higher PSI cause an issue?
Also I would like to replace my quick connect block with individual flat face connectors. I know the loaders 4 hoses are not full flow all the time but would the max lift be affected?
These stated flow numbers can be horribly misleading!

Lets clarify a couple points.
Your entire system is 6.2 GPM, but you don't have use of that entire flow.
You only have use of 3.7GPM of it.
From the pump it's split via a priority valve to run 2 sets of systems.
Set 1 is not usable : Is the Steering and the PTO clutch and controls.
Set 2: Is the FEL, Three Point and BH.
The first set is unusable and is 2.7GPM.
The second set is usable at 3.7GMP.
So any 1/4 Hydraulic fitting are going to work on the usable portion of the system.
Pretty much anything you can use on the system, added valves, couplers, fitting and hoses are going to flow more than your system can ever put out!
You are way overthinking it all, it's not got the flow of a large system or a high flow system that you need to worry about anything you do.

Now as far as hydraulic run systems go:
The SA10 might or might not work, if it does work it will be terribly anemic as it will not get the flow which it want to run at.
 

TheOldHokie

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So in regards to the new SA10 post hole auger by landpride that requires 4-10 gpm flow would the couplers still work or would the higher PSI cause an issue?
Also I would like to replace my quick connect block with individual flat face connectors. I know the loaders 4 hoses are not full flow all the time but would the max lift be affected?
Pushing 10 GPM through a 1/4" coupler is not going to work well. Move up to 3/8" minimum. This has nothing to do with lift. What size hose do you have? If you are pushing anywhere close to 10 GPM you need 3/8: at a minimum. You also need to consider the size of the hose and tube on the loader supply. If this is a BX machine where are you going to get 10 GPM?

Dan
 

whitetiger

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Here's my question. Does flow rate matter?
Because on that list Summit fittings have a flow rate of 6.3gpm but all the rest are between 3gpm(parker) and 4.5gpm(Eaton). The BX has a flow rate of just over 6gpm minute so does that mean that only the Summit ones will work properly or doesn't it matter?
The hydraulic pump is rated atn6.21 GPM but the hydraulic oil then flows through the flow divider/priority valve which sends 2.10 GPM to the steering circuit. That also supplies oil to the hydrostat as charge oil and to the PTO valve.
The very most you could ever get to the couplers with warm oil and engine at wide-open throttle is 4.10 GPM.