Gun Handling, What Am I Missing?

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baronetm

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I taught hunter firearm safety for years, I always taught my students to never hand anyone a loaded firearm. The practice is with the muzzle pointed in a safe direction to remove any removable magazines, open the action in the presence of the firearm recipient to verify an unloaded firearm. After handing them the firearm ask them to also open the action and make sure the firearm is unloaded, no removable magazine or rounds are handed to the recipient until the verification is complete.

During this process you watch and observe if the person that is being handed the firearm is capable of safely handling and operating the firearm, if there is any doubt, it is education time.

I also taught my students that they are responsible to load any magazine, fixed or removable and to count how many rounds were loaded and count how many are removed less any shots fired.

Yes, it is simple math and something a responsible firearm handler should be cognizant of.
 
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Geezer3d

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First, as already said, there should never be live ammunition on a movie set or other situation where someone is expected to aim a gun at another person for entertainment. People who shoot real guns with real ammunition are taught to never point a gun at anything that you don't intend to shoot, for real.
 
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NCL4701

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Maybe I just don’t understand the protocols for gun handling on a movie/theatrical set. I do understand them for ranges and general use. The consequences of an accidental discharge are so dire, particularly in a situation where the gun is intentionally aimed at a person, how the movie industry could be more lax than a shooting range is unimaginable.

1) If the gun is in my hand, it’s not clear in my mind until I clear it, period. Once it’s in my hands, if there is an accidental discharge that’s on me, period, so I either check it or I’m not picking it up. I don’t care who hands it to me or how impressive their credentials are.

2) It would make me very nervous to take a gun capable of firing a live round, lining up the sights on a person I had no intention of shooting, cocking it, and pulling the trigger; regardless of the circumstance. My almost exclusive experience is when I line up the sights on a live target and fire, the target dies. Not quite sure I could do it. Possibly just my ignorance but I don’t quite understand with all the “movie magic” available currently, it’s still necessary to have a standard gun utilized as a movie prop.

I’m reminded of an incident I personally had quite a few years ago. Had to pick up about a dozen long guns from the evidence room of a local Sheriff Dept. The Detective handling the transfer, who I knew quite well, made it very clear very quickly he was grossly insulted the first thing I did with the first gun was open the bolt to make sure it was clear. He was still railing at me as I picked up the second gun, a 300 Mag hunting rifle. Slammed the bolt open and a live round flew across the room. He got quiet real quick as the blood drained out of his face. That gun had been in evidence three years and was exhibited in trial. The round had apparently been in the chamber the entire time. As I picked up the third gun to clear, he recovered his composure and helped me clear the rest of the guns before I took custody of them. I didn’t say anything back to him and we never spoke about it again.

I’ve had a smattering of other incidents where people I highly respect and trust tell me a gun is clear when it turns out not to be. If I hand someone a gun, I expect them to clear it rather than taking my word.

I don’t pretend to know the legal responsibilities of the persons involved in handling the gun, particularly in light of the laws of a state I’m unfamiliar with. It is difficult to understand how the negligence of one or more of the parties wouldn’t rise to a level to meet the requirements for manslaughter or third degree murder or whatever they call negligent homicide in New Mexico. Also hard to imagine how Baldwin skates criminally or civilly as both a producer and trigger man. Regardless of my thoughts of Baldwin (which are rare and generally unfavorable) I sincerely hate it for him, Halyna Hutchins, and her family, partly because her death and resulting fallout both could and SHOULD have been avoided with nominal effort and basic level of care. It’s just a sad and senseless situation.

Regardless whether Baldwin is a decent guy or a waste of air, regardless what the final consequences to him criminally and civilly, how many times and for how many years is he going to wake in the middle of the night feeling the unexpected recoil from a live round, seeing Hutchins’ face, watching her fall? How long does the pain of loss last for Hutchins’ husband and children? And why? Because three out of three people who handled the gun were apparently too careless to check it and with absolute certainty the last to touch it didn’t check it. Just sad..,
 
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tradosaurus

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mY c0LleCtI0n iS bIGgEr ThAn YoUrS
Living in East Texas my gun collection at it's height was fairly tame comparing to long time residents in the area.

I actually pared down my collection as most of my guns I never fired and they just collected dust. I'm down to semi-auto shotgun, HMR .17, Over/under shotgun, AR15, Sig Sauer 365, and Taurus G2 millenium.

I gave my other pistols to my 3 sons and sold off a few rifles/pistols over the last 5 years. Ammo isn't cheap either.
 
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Yooper

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Any time there is a gun in my hands the first thing I do is check the chamber. Even if I was the last one to handle it I still do it just to set my mind at ease!

In before the 🔒😉
 
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Jchonline

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I have no idea why a bunch of movie industry idiots decided it would be a good idea to use a firearm that can fire centerfire/rimfire rounds on a movie set....STUPID. There should be a custom version for movies with a different firing pin that will not fire a centerfire or rimfire cartridge. That is just common sense. They spend MILLIONS on these movies...$10,000 for a custom firearm is nothing. Just sad and shows you just how ignorant and naïve the firearm untrained are.

Dont think that all liberals or Democrats are against guns...stop trying to make 2A a political choice. The constitution transcends sides of the political isle. I know many Democrats that are 2A advocates. We need ALL of the support we can get to keep 2A safe.
 
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dirtydeed

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His next movie "shoot" will feature one of these:

new home protection setup.jpg
 
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Henro

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Aside from the offshoots, this thread contains some great input!

Basically what I felt but more detailed. All this great information relevent to the question is highly appreciated and very meaningful!
 
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NCL4701

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I’m wondering why he isn’t in jail for murder?

You or me, would be.
You or me wouldn’t be a high profile case. Unlikely anyone involved will be fleeing to avoid prosecution and the DA likely wants all the T’s crossed and I’s dotted before leveling charges against anyone in a case that’s under a national microscope. Now, if there are no charges at all, that would be a true travesty of elitism.
 
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Matt Ellerbee

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You or me wouldn’t be a high profile case. Unlikely anyone involved will be fleeing to avoid prosecution and the DA likely wants all the T’s crossed and I’s dotted before leveling charges against anyone in a case that’s under a national microscope. Now, if there are no charges at all, that would be a true travesty of elitism.
If you or I had pulled that trigger, with 30+ witnesses, we'd be in jail till they figured everything out.
 
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bucktail

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There are 4 rules of gun safety. You have to violate at least 2 or 3 of them at the same time for something bad to happen. Based on what I've been reading, all 4 were broken.
 
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NCL4701

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If you or I had pulled that trigger, with 30+ witnesses, we'd be in jail till they figured everything out.
Most definitely. They’d chuck us in the pokey on some charge or other until they figured out the real final charges.
 

Old_Paint

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EVERYONE who picks up or is handed a firearm(takes control of it) is SUPPOSED to CONFIRM whether it's loaded or not. That would include seeing if bullets are in the clip and if a round is already 'chambered'. If you don't know what that means you should NOT be holding that firearm !!

On the movie set in question.. the 'armourer' should have confirmed the firearm's status ( empty, full of blanks, real bullets) before he hands it off ...then whoever he gave it to ( the assistant director I think..), he does the SAME proceedure, then the actor(Mr. Baldwin). In this case the 'chain of custody' is 3 people long, so ALL THREE should have examined the firearm.
When I was taught 'Firearms101' for my licenses,6 decades, I was told 1) ALWAYS consider EVERY weapon loaded and 2) NEVER ever point at anyone.
There are ZERO excuses for the murder that took place, it was NOT an 'accident'. There are clearly established 'rules and regulations' for 'guns on movies sets', similar to shooting ranges.
GJ, I was taught the same two rules, but I had a slight variant of the last one. My 'instructor' said NEVER point a gun at anyone unless you intend to use it. He knew how, trust me. Had a 99.87 average on skeet, could shoot flying bumblebees and light matches with a .22, and NEVER shot a squirrel anywhere except through the eye. He was scary good with a firearm.
 
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