G5200 Wont Start

[Smokeless]

Kinda stuck and really dont have a good working knowledge on this D600 engine.

We used the tractor this past summer and parked unheated garage. Had trouble starting as cooler temps creeped in and now in the 20s, no soap.

QUESTION: Should I be reading a full 12v at the glo plug with the key on preheat? I am reading just a tad over 8V. I plan on cleaning the connections and testing them tomorrow, possible remove and place on spare battery.

I suspect the issue is further than glo plugs, there is a block heater I plugged it in and still would not start. So how does on verify the injectors.

We will purchase a WSM but not sure where or from whom. Fairly pricy. Any suggestions on trouble shooting appreciated

 

[GeoHorn]

I’m no expert on Glow Plugs, but:
Here’s the troubleshooting chart for Glow Plugs on my engine (F2803) in my M4700.
Battery voltage is supplied to the Glow Plugs via a Glow Relay. If you are testing voltage with your Glow Plugs still connected in the system then you are not reading full voltage. (You’d have to disconnect the plugs to read the supply voltage correctly.)

 

[rentthis]

Kubotabooks.com has a workshop manual free online. Click on the link, click on the tractor picture, scroll down to tractor owners manuals, scroll to l3901 and download.

kubotabooks.com

 

[Dave_eng]

Your story gives me an important clue.

We used the tractor this past summer and parked unheated garage. Had trouble starting as cooler temps creeped in and now in the 20s,

Summer grade diesel is not good for cold weather. It gells.... forms a wax like substance that blocks up filters and small passages.

You need to drain the existing fuel, get the machines in somewhere warm and let it sit. Buy fresh diesel at a truck stop that sells a lot of fuel so you get a winter grade.

Go through the bleeding injection system ritual on page 14 while the tractor is warm and then get it started on the winter grade diesel.

Dave

 

[je1279]

If your issue is gelling related you can also try a product called diesel 911. It's made specifically for gelled fuel systems.

 

[Smokeless]

I’m no expert on Glow Plugs, but:
Here’s the troubleshooting chart for Glow Plugs on my engine (F2803) in my M4700.
Battery voltage is supplied to the Glow Plugs via a Glow Relay. If you are testing voltage with your Glow Plugs still connected in the system then you are not reading full voltage. (You’d have to disconnect the plugs to read the supply voltage correctly.)

View attachment 54377

Thats exactly the type of information I was looking for. Been rooting around for a wsm, but no soap. Called a local dealer and he had one on the shelf, but disappeared. Thanks

 

[Smokeless]

Kubotabooks.com has a workshop manual free online. Click on the link, click on the tractor picture, scroll down to tractor owners manuals, scroll to l3901 and download.

kubotabooks.com

I am looking for a wsm to download for a G5200. Been there earlier today, I did n option for that model. However, thats good info for my 3901,

 

[Smokeless]

Your story gives me an important clue.

We used the tractor this past summer and parked unheated garage. Had trouble starting as cooler temps creeped in and now in the 20s,

Summer grade diesel is not good for cold weather. It gells.... forms a wax like substance that blocks up filters and small passages.

You need to drain the existing fuel, get the machines in somewhere warm and let it sit. Buy fresh diesel at a truck stop that sells a lot of fuel so you get a winter grade.

Go through the bleeding injection system ritual on page 14 while the tractor is warm and then get it started on the winter grade diesel.

Dave

Ouch!!!!!! What a big dummy am I. Never thought about it since I have been using white Power Source. I thought that settled the jelling issue. How would you recommend my fuel is indeed jelled?

 

[Smokeless]

If your issue is gelling related you can also try a product called diesel 911. It's made specifically for gelled fuel systems.

View attachment 54383

never used it but I believe it is made by the same folks that produce white fuel additive. thanks

 

[Dave_eng]

Ouch!!!!!! What a big dummy am I. Never thought about it since I have been using white Power Source. I thought that settled the jelling issue. How would you recommend my fuel is indeed jelled?

Long term forum members like eserv have said these "mechanic in a bottle" products are a waste of $. There are many many opinions on the topic and I do not want to start a big debate.

I do know if you use a winter grade diesel without any additive you will be good all winter.

Every year when it gets cold owners come on the forum and are posting about No Start conditions arriving with cold weather.

When questioned, they acknowledge buying fuel in the fall and then continuing to use it in the cold weather.

I suggest your efforts are better spent sorting out fuel issues than getting into glow plug circuitry.

Dave

 

[Smokeless]

never used it but I believe it is made by the same folks that produce white fuel additive. thanks

Kinda stuck and really dont have a good working knowledge on this D600 engine.

We used the tractor this past summer and parked unheated garage. Had trouble starting as cooler temps creeped in and now in the 20s, no soap.

QUESTION: Should I be reading a full 12v at the glo plug with the key on preheat? I am reading just a tad over 8V. I plan on cleaning the connections and testing them tomorrow, possible remove and place on spare battery.

I suspect the issue is further than glo plugs, there is a block heater I plugged it in and still would not start. So how does on verify the injectors.

We will purchase a WSM but not sure where or from whom. Fairly pricy. Any suggestions on trouble shooting appreciated

Made a little headway this am. Pulled the connecting wires off the glo plugs and measured resistance with my volt ohm digital meter. No direct shorts and all above .5 and about 1 ohm, one was a little higher. I did not have a 12mm deep socket so purchased one this pm and will pull it tomorrow and test on a battery source.

In the meantime we spruced up the wiring connectors and the input V lead. I tested the V on the input lead with the switch moved to preheat, 13V on a freshly charged battery.

My block heater appears to be working very good. Unfortunately I do not have a heated garage nor a space heater to direct to the engine. I can drain the fuel and start afresh, still stumped how to confirm the diesel is gelled. Can I verify by looking on the fuel tank? Seems the block heater is working so well it would open the lines.. Thanks and more later, all inputs appreciated

 

[Smokeless]

Made a little headway this am. Pulled the connecting wires off the glo plugs and measured resistance with my volt ohm digital meter. No direct shorts and all above .5 and about 1 ohm, one was a little higher. I did not have a 12mm deep socket so purchased one this pm and will pull it tomorrow and test on a battery source.

In the meantime we spruced up the wiring connectors and the input V lead. I tested the V on the input lead with the switch moved to preheat, 13V on a freshly charged battery.

My block heater appears to be working very good. Unfortunately I do not have a heated garage nor a space heater to direct to the engine. I can drain the fuel and start afresh, still stumped how to confirm the diesel is gelled. Can I verify by looking on the fuel tank? Seems the block heater is working so well it would open the lines.. Thanks and more later, all inputs appreciated

Does this sound correct::::
In order to Thaw Frozen Fuel Filters:

• Remove filters.
• Empty any liquid or gel.
• Fill fuel filters with 50% CleanBoost® Diesel Rescue Emergency De-Gel™.
• Fill the remaining 50% with diesel fuel.
• Re-install fuel filters.
• Start engine and allow to idle until warm In order to Remove Water from Fuel Systems: Treat your fuel according to the following:

 

[GeoHorn]

Has anyone ever tried using a hair-dryer to get one of these things started? It seems that warm air directed at the fuel filter and injector lines, and warm air directed into the air-intake should trick it into believing it’s summer.

 

[je1279]

As Dave_eng mentioned, checking the fuel filter is the easiest way to tell if the fuel is gelled. You mentioned that you added anti gelling additive in the summer though correct? Just don't want to send you down a rabbit hole if the issue isn't gelling related. Here is another option if you do think it's gelled.

 

[Smokeless]

As Dave_eng mentioned, checking the fuel filter is the easiest way to tell if the fuel is gelled. You mentioned that you added anti gelling additive in the summer though correct? Just don't want to send you down a rabbit hole if the issue isn't gelling related. Here is another option if you do think it's gelled.

Thanks for posting that vid. Late last night i thought about checking the fuel filter and I am just about to go out and check. Yes,

As Dave_eng mentioned, checking the fuel filter is the easiest way to tell if the fuel is gelled. You mentioned that you added anti gelling additive in the summer though correct? Just don't want to send you down a rabbit hole if the issue isn't gelling related. Here is another option if you do think it's gelled.

Thanks for posting the vid. Late last nite I thought about checking the fuel filter and I am just about to go out to the garage. 20 degrees here in NE Ohio and forecast is for much colder. Yes, added some power service (white container) to the fuel. Never thought about using the 911. So if the filter is ok, I will take glo plugs out and check them. The meter recorded one may be on the brink so we will see. I dont imagine this machine will start on two cylinders, and if it does run pretty rough. Thanks, more later

 

[je1279]

Thanks for posting that vid. Late last night i thought about checking the fuel filter and I am just about to go out and check. Yes,

Thanks for posting the vid. Late last nite I thought about checking the fuel filter and I am just about to go out to the garage. 20 degrees here in NE Ohio and forecast is for much colder. Yes, added some power service (white container) to the fuel. Never thought about using the 911. So if the filter is ok, I will take glo plugs out and check them. The meter recorded one may be on the brink so we will see. I dont imagine this machine will start on two cylinders, and if it does run pretty rough. Thanks, more later

No problem. The glow plugs don't impact ignition in diesels like spark plugs do for gasoline engines. Diesels ignite based on compression. So even if none of your glow plugs worked, above a certain temperature, it should still start and run normally if it's getting air, fuel and compression. You can try the hair dryer in the intake (that GeoHorn mentioned) to see if that will help if it won't start otherwise. The diesel 911 is only for when your fuel is already gelled. The power service in the white container should prevent gelling if added in the right ratio. It's possible that it was past its prime when you added it though.

 

[Smokeless]

Does this sound correct::::
In order to Thaw Frozen Fuel Filters:

• Remove filters.
• Empty any liquid or gel.
• Fill fuel filters with 50% CleanBoost® Diesel Rescue Emergency De-Gel™.
• Fill the remaining 50% with diesel fuel.
• Re-install fuel filters.
• Start engine and allow to idle until warm In order to Remove Water from Fuel Systems: Treat your fuel according to the following:

Another step forward, I think.

1. Pulled the glo plugs and cleaned them, really not that bad. Connected each one to a power source and in about 4 or 5 seconds burning hot orange. SO believe I confidently can say glo plugs ok.

2. Pulled the filter canister and no apparent jelling. Turned key on and fuel coming through. About all fuel out of tank so I will get fresh #1 and treat with Power Source White additive tomorrow.

Is there any reason I cant add an independent power source to the glo plug to heat them then crank engine with starting battery?

We are making headway but slow and I am not certain we dont have another issue. Appreciate all the posts, have learned much already, obliged

 

[Dave_eng]

Another step forward, I think.

1. Pulled the glo plugs and cleaned them, really not that bad. Connected each one to a power source and in about 4 or 5 seconds burning hot orange. SO believe I confidently can say glo plugs ok.

2. Pulled the filter canister and no apparent jelling. Turned key on and fuel coming through. About all fuel out of tank so I will get fresh #1 and treat with Power Source White additive tomorrow.

Is there any reason I cant add an independent power source to the glo plug to heat them then crank engine with starting battery?

We are making headway but slow and I am not certain we dont have another issue. Appreciate all the posts, have learned much already, obliged

Your test (already done on the glow plugs) carries significant risk that you should be aware of.

Glow plug design envisions them thermally connected to a heavy mass of metal (i.e. the cylinder head). Open air testing removes this important aspect of their design, leads to too rapid heating and can, on occasion, cause the tip of the glow plug to explode.

If you must test them out of the engine, at least clamp them in a heavy metal vice.

I have not studied your machines wiring but usually, GP power is fed through a glow indicator which is actually a resistor, when the key switch is in the pre heat position. When the key switch is turned to start, power to the GP's bypasses the glow indicator. This is done because the starter motor is already drawing down the battery voltage available to the GP's.

I caution against doing as you suggest and powering the GP's directly from a 12 volt source. If you blow a glow plug, the pieces which break off inside a cylinder will do major damage.

You can, as was previously suggested by Geohorn, remove the air cleaner and direct warm air from a hair dryer or heat gun into the cylinders intake tract.

Dave

 

[Smokeless]

Your test (already done on the glow plugs) carries significant risk that you should be aware of.

Glow plug design envisions them thermally connected to a heavy mass of metal (i.e. the cylinder head). Open air testing removes this important aspect of their design, leads to too rapid heating and can, on occasion, cause the tip of the glow plug to explode.

If you must test them out of the engine, at least clamp them in a heavy metal vice.

I have not studied your machines wiring but usually, GP power is fed through a glow indicator which is actually a resistor, when the key switch is in the pre heat position. When the key switch is turned to start, power to the GP's bypasses the glow indicator. This is done because the starter motor is already drawing down the battery voltage available to the GP's.

I caution against doing as you suggest and powering the GP's directly from a 12 volt source. If you blow a glow plug, the pieces which break off inside a cylinder will do major damage.

You can, as was previously suggested by Geohorn, remove the air cleaner and direct warm air from a hair dryer or heat gun into the cylinders intake tract.

Dave

As I noted earlier, I am learning by the hour. Well organized informative post, thank you

 

[Dave_eng]

As I noted earlier, I am learning by the hour. Well organized informative post, thank you

We were all beginners at one point. The unfortunate aspect for me is now with some knowledge is old age

Dave