Dpf on B3350

[Deesil]

Posted this on buying advice section as well but for the DPF I was hoping for some feedback here as well

Here is the original post...

First post and I appreciate any input.

Just purchased a a b3350su yesterday and I take delivery next week. Also got the FEL and box blade on it.

Remorse part. It seems that size/model tractor has extensive issues with the dpf tier 4 garbage on it. It seems it's likely due to the type of use this size tractor sees compared to a larger model slaved to a batwing or harrow in the fields all day. Seems they likely have a harder time with the regen from not being worked hard enough and building up the required heat and rpm.

I'm thinking of calling Monday morning and having them send me the 2650 instead which will also save me about 3k compared to the su model anyway. I've signed everything and put down a hearty down payment but delivery is still late next week.


First, am I over thinking the dpf crap? My intended use is very low Impact, low rpm and not much in general. It won't see a lot of hours a year and will be babied to say the least. Just minor yard, fence, driveway grading and such.

Secondly, any issues with calling my salesman up Monday morning and changing to a cheaper model? They will not have done anything but paperwork up to that point as I bought it last thing Saturday.

Thanks for any input


Nick in Florida

 

[Daren Todd]

It's my understanding that if you run it the way they reccomend in the manual there weren't many issues and make sure and hit the auto regen button. Check and verify with the dealer to see if there are any recalls on it, and make sure the dealer takes care of them.

Check out this sticky in tractor operation

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18025

 

[Deesil]

Thanks for the reply and link

I can imagine that with the new dpf setup I would have to run the tractor more tailored to making sure egt's get high enough rather than for the actual work I would be doing with the tractor.
This is to say nothing of 6 years down the road when it's no longer under warranty and the dpf system is in tatters due to not running exactly how kubota suggested. And then I can performed no repair myself because it's all about the computer at that point.

Nick

 

[85Hokie]

Nick,

I have no experience with the new machines, but I know that with anything new, there are problems. I have heard already that most machines go through regen smoothly.....then again I have heard not so good things about problems. I do know one thing, the warranty will run out....and then it will be $$$ (more so) to fix.
If I was in the market - I would try to steer clear and get the non tier 4 machine. Just my 2 little pennies!

 

[Burt]

Posted this on buying advice section as well but for the DPF I was hoping for some feedback here as well

Here is the original post...

First post and I appreciate any input.

Just purchased a a b3350su yesterday and I take delivery next week. Also got the FEL and box blade on it.

Remorse part. It seems that size/model tractor has extensive issues with the dpf tier 4 garbage on it. It seems it's likely due to the type of use this size tractor sees compared to a larger model slaved to a batwing or harrow in the fields all day. Seems they likely have a harder time with the regen from not being worked hard enough and building up the required heat and rpm.

I'm thinking of calling Monday morning and having them send me the 2650 instead which will also save me about 3k compared to the su model anyway. I've signed everything and put down a hearty down payment but delivery is still late next week.


First, am I over thinking the dpf crap? My intended use is very low Impact, low rpm and not much in general. It won't see a lot of hours a year and will be babied to say the least. Just minor yard, fence, driveway grading and such.

Secondly, any issues with calling my salesman up Monday morning and changing to a cheaper model? They will not have done anything but paperwork up to that point as I bought it last thing Saturday.

Thanks for any input


Nick in Florida

Deesil,

What's a DPF? Along with the other acronyms and shortened words, I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. I'm assuming that has something to do with tier 4?

So, I'm starting a new society for Americans...Anti Acronym Society, the AAS!

Over,

Burt

 

[Deesil]

Deesil,

What's a DPF? Along with the other acronyms and shortened words, I'm having a hard time keeping up with this thread. I'm assuming that has something to do with tier 4?

So, I'm starting a new society for Americans...Anti Acronym Society, the AAS!

Over,

Burt

Diesel particulate filter

Similar purpose of a catalytic converter on a gas engine but the dpf has to regenerate and clean itself periodically not unlike a home water softener would.

 

[nickelplated5s]

Get the 2650. Ford has a recall out right now for emissions. This is on a 2011 and up model year that came out in 2010. In other words five years in and still adjusting parameters.

The plus is the recall only relates to the truck going into a "limp" mode. You are also correct that T4 diesel engines that aren't worked hard will regen more often. Think commuting versus towing.

 

[Deesil]

Get the 2650. Ford has a recall out right now for emissions. This is on a 2011 and up model year that came out in 2010. In other words five years in and still adjusting parameters.

The plus is the recall only relates to the truck going into a "limp" mode. You are also correct that T4 diesel engines that aren't worked hard will regen more often. Think commuting versus towing.

My thoughts as well. Gonna call the dealer tomorrow and will be the first test to see how they handle issues lol

I think the 2650 will be plenty for my use

 

[CJN8]

I am questioning the same thing myself. I went and looked at the B 3350 on Friday and am curious how the DPF will hold up over time. I am thinking I might just go for the smaller tractor and avoid the DPF. I think the smaller B series will still operate 5 foot implements? It is my understanding that the B 2650 has the same motor as the B 2920. I am not sure why the horsepower is slightly less then the B 2920?

 

[sheepfarmer]

The dpf itself is just a metal filter and collects the particles of soot. When the soot level reaches a certain level the regeneration cycle needs to occur, but normal use at something other than dead idle raises the temperature to the point where the soot will be burnt off as you work. Eg I was loading the manure spreader yesterday and you can see the % load on the dash and it did a regen during the time I was working, all I had to do was shove the rpm up to 2200 for 10 min and it was done. BUT I had to pay attention and change the rpm when it blinked. Then I put the rpm back down to something I was comfortable with and it hardly accumulated anything the rest of the day. So normal bucket use was enough to burn the soot off. Today I was loading pine bark into the Gator and shutting it on and off between loads and it accumulated 2 or 3%.

A small amount of ash remains after regeneration, and supposedly the dpf only needs to be serviced every 3,000 hours by a kubota dealer to remove that ash. So this is the only long term service expense on the dpf that we ought to be looking at. I don't think how you use it will affect the ultimate ash load as much as how many gallons of fuel used, how clean the fuel is, and how efficient the engine is, and the new engines are really efficient. I hope I can still climb up on my tractor when it gets to 3,000 hrs !

It is a tradeoff...does the tractor with dpf offer enough other features to make it worthwhile? It is nice to have cleaner exhaust if you have to start your tractor inside a building. My 2003 truck reeks of diesel, no emissions control, and I can hardly wait to back it out of the garage. But it runs well, 21mpg.

I think for anyone currently shopping, the key information is what does the specific tractor have on it, when was it built, and so forth. Ask to take an owner's manual home and look at it. Go over the engine with a tech at the dealership. Read. See if you can find someone in the area with that model to talk to. Is the dpf a potential aggravation? Absolutely, but not necessarily insurmountable. I didn't know nuthin from nuthin when I got mine, but I'm happy with it. But as I said on the other thread it is a different base engine.

 

[nickelplated5s]

It's not quite that simple. There are more than a few sensors to keep track of EGT's at various spots, soot levels, etc. When the engine is being worked hard enough to bring up EGT's you get a passive regen. When soot levels come up and EGT's aren't hot enough you get an active regen. That's when extra fuel is pumped into the exhaust system, burns off and raises EGT's enough to get rid of the soot. How that fuel gets there no one has answered for Kubota. Ford runs it through the engine on the exhaust stroke (bad), Chevy uses an extra injector in the exhaust (better). Next you have the DEF system, EGR.....

 

[Deesil]

Guy at kubota dealership said its an injection event on the exhaust stroke like you described. But he also said there is no passive regen on th b series dpf. Only regenerates on the active cycle and only when it thinks it's time. This has been my issue with it from the get go. Dpf systems suck but they seem to suck even more on these smaller tractors because there are so few of them And it will take lot longer for them to sort out I'm sure.

 

[Deesil]

Dealer is sending the 2650 later this week without hesitation. Couldn't be happier with the service I've gotten so far. Will post name of sales person and company at a later time. Just glad not to be a tier 4 beta tester

Look forward to my future questions on how to boost power up on a 3 cylinder kubota diesel

 

[CJN8]

What was the price difference from the B 3350 to the B 2650? Does the B 2650 have any type of emissions controls?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Just glad not to be a tier 4 beta tester

Look forward to my future questions on how to boost power up on a 3 cylinder kubota diesel

I hate to be the bearer of good or bad news, but you are still a beta tester of tier 4, but just without dpf. The engine emissions must meet the tier 4 standards, but kubota has done it in this group of tractors with a three vortex indirect injection engine, a new design. They are annoyingly cute with their online brochure in that they don't tell you whether or not this particular tractor does or does not have EGR (probably does) or any other after treatment. The only way I know of to find out more about this engine is to go to Messick's and download the parts list for the engine and look through it to see. Or buy a shop manual for it.

Nevertheless, I still think you have made a great choice. If you find you need more horsepower, you could jump up to an L tractor in a year or two. They may be releasing some of those without the dpf soon.

 

[Deesil]

Yeah I realize that, but the dpf along with its computer interface was my main concern as it adds a whole other level of complexity to the system, not just mechanically but computer control and sensing in the exhaust stream. And it's my understanding that tier 4 is a sliding scale based on hp so the more hp the tighter the requirements which is why they were able to produce a 26hp engine without the darn dpf but the 33 got it. It's obvious looking at these two tractors side by side. The amount of extra crap on the 33 is just sad if you ask me. I don't see any larger hp tractors ever being produced again without the dpf or its descendants.