Diesel diseling?

[geogrim1]

I have a 2013 L4220 with about 345 hours on it. I was pulling a trencher on sunday when the engine went crazy? It reved up to redline and stayed inspite of my throttle off and ignition off. It kept reving for a couple of minutes with black and blue smoke pouring out. It finally died. the heat guage was normal. I decided to let it cool down. 2 hours later, I turned it over to see if I had thrown a rod or such, then tried to start it...No go. What gives?

Thanks,

GG

 

[skeets]

This might give you an idea what happend ,watch it all the way through it is informative
https://youtu.be/W3dKbtGLM9g?t=8

 

[troverman]

I have a 2013 L4220 with about 345 hours on it. I was pulling a trencher on sunday when the engine went crazy? It reved up to redline and stayed inspite of my throttle off and ignition off. It kept reving for a couple of minutes with black and blue smoke pouring out. It finally died. the heat guage was normal. I decided to let it cool down. 2 hours later, I turned it over to see if I had thrown a rod or such, then tried to start it...No go. What gives?

Thanks,

GG

Sounds like a runaway diesel engine to me...the engine starts to burn it's own crankcase oil instead of diesel. You run out of lube and the engine seizes, throws a rods, etc.

 

[BruceP]

As mentioned in previous posts, what you describe is called RUNAWAY and it is perhaps the very worst thing a diesel engine can do.

If, indeed, a diesel engine begins to run on its own oil.... there is VERY LITTLE that can be done to stop it from running. Instead, the engine runs faster and faster until it self-destructs.

Most often, the cause is a seal in turbocharger leaking engine-oil into the intake plenum. This may be caused by the turbocharger oil-drain being plugged so the oil has nowhere else to go but past the seal into the intake.

Here is example of diesel runaway ending VERY bad ==> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUJrurvjYtg Notice that the driver applies the brakes and they do nothing to help. The only thing that stops the engine is spraying fire-extinguiser into the intake.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Another cause for a runaway is freezing of lines in the oil separator/ EGR system. It happened in the early editions of the tier 4 tractors sold into bitterly cold climates, and was solved by insulating those components, but it happened to a few tractors that first winter. So that is another way oil can be fed into the engine.



https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18317

 

[Tx Jim]

Welcome to OTT
i'll suggest to check your L4240 external governor linkage for missing or broken spring or binding linkage.

 

[In Utopia]

What would happen if when the runaway starts you put the tractor or what ever in gear or anything to bog it down.
I've seen several videos of showing the runaway and they seem to have one thing in common, they are all sitting still.

 

[troverman]

What would happen if when the runaway starts you put the tractor or what ever in gear or anything to bog it down.
I've seen several videos of showing the runaway and they seem to have one thing in common, they are all sitting still.

When they run away, the thing they have in common is that the engine is running at a higher RPM than it was ever design for and self destructs. If you could place some kind of load against it to try and slow it down, something would break...either the engine or the transmission / PTO.

Some people try stuffing something into the air intake because it does take air to make combustion still.

 

[sheepfarmer]

I asked about that and my dealer advised me to get it into an open space if possible, get far away, and let it self destruct. I think blocking the air intake depends on the size of the tractor and its configuration, and the size and strength of the operator. I would have serious misgivings about crawling over parts of my L3560 loader to unlatch the hood and standing in front of it to lift it, and then trying to reach the air intake when it is running full blast. Might be possible on the B tractor, though. Generally speaking, life is too short as it is.

 

[SidecarFlip]

What would happen if when the runaway starts you put the tractor or what ever in gear or anything to bog it down.
I've seen several videos of showing the runaway and they seem to have one thing in common, they are all sitting still.

The engine is making so much power, the driveline won't stop it. Had that happen to a guy I know with a 3406 Cat air to air. The ATA cooler filled with engine oil from a leaking turbo seal and once the engine got a taste of lube oil it went beserk. He tried to jam on the brakes with it in gear and all that did was blow the clutch out. so it went until it ran out of lube oil in the ATA unit and he wound up with a reman engine. The 3406 was basically junk.

Back in the day, Detroit Diesel 2 stroke engines all had am 'emergency shutdown flap' on top of the blower. If the engine ran away (Detroit's were noted for that happening), you'd pull the 'Emergency Stop' knob and the metal flap would cover the intake opening on top the blower and shut off the air supply and the engine would die (suffocate from lack of combustion air).

You can do the same thing with any runaway diesel. Stuff a rag in the intake or cover it with a sheet metal plate.

 

[BAP]

Usually, runaway happens so fast you don’t have time to find something to stuff in the intake. Plus, unless it’s something solid, the engine will suck it right in and blow it out the other side.

 

[nickelplated5s]

Had that happen with a 6.4 IH motor. There's a reason Ford went in house for the 6.7. Short block but under warranty. I got it killed in about 2 seconds but the motor was still toast.

 

[troverman]

Had that happen with a 6.4 IH motor. There's a reason Ford went in house for the 6.7. Short block but under warranty. I got it killed in about 2 seconds but the motor was still toast.

The 6.4L wasn't wonderful, but the Siemens fuel pump was pretty nice. I'd say most of the issues of that engine were related to the first-generation DPF system. The EGR cooler(s) location was terrible and they had problems.

The 6.7L has done many things right - good engine. I wish it sounded more like a diesel though...too quiet for me. The 6.0L Ford was my favorite sounding diesel, even over a Cummins.

 

[Lil Foot]

The 6.0L Ford was my favorite sounding diesel, even over a Cummins.

I'll second that!

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

On two stroke Detroit’s the air flap was often the cause of the runaway.

They used a speed switch trigger the air flap if the engine exceeded 2100rpm and shut off the air supply. This often happened when purging air after a filter change.

Problem is that when you block the air supply you create a large vacuum on the intake that is normally never present on a diesel. (Diesels have a wide open intake unlike a like a carburated engine) If the blower seals were a little weak it would sometimes cause them to fail and dump oil into the intake.

The next start would put it into overspeed and the airflap often didn’t seal well enough to actually shut it down.

And don’t try shut it down with a rag, about the only hope is plywood over the intake if it’s accessible and the air filter is already off. I’ve seen a 6” thick white pages get sucked through an 8V92. Didn’t stop it but there was confetti in the corners of the shop for many years after that.

 

[Chilliwack Murray]

Rereading this thread it looks like the topic has drifted from the OPs original inquiry.

On a non turbo Diesel engine, it’s pretty uncommon to have a runaway caused by running on engine oil. There’s almost no way for it to enter the cylinder except the oil passage from the block to the head. If a piston has failed there isn’t compression to ignite any oil.

It’s much more likely fuel contamination caused the fuel rack to stick. One stuck plunger can cause the entire rack to stay at one throttle setting and though it wouldn’t be injecting on the seized plunger the rest would continue to deliver fuel at that setting. Even if it were only part throttle the engine would overspeed unless it were loaded.

This is quite common on standby generators that sit for long periods of time with stale fuel.

 

[200mph]

I have a 2013 L4220 with about 345 hours on it.
GG

So what model is this tractor? Not familiar with L4220.

Now that a number of people responded to the original question, what does the OP plan on doing?

 

[skeets]

And most of all did it toast the motor