Dead Battery or starter ? Kubota L3200

roaf3

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B7510
Apr 6, 2011
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CT USA
I have been chasing a battery alternator issue. I ran the tractor yesterday and after trying to start it sounds like the starter was not able to engage. There is a steady clicking when I turn the key. The bat was just charged prior to use and the run time was about an hour.
The bat showed 12v prior to start and the alternator was 12-13 v on multi meter.
I am thinking the alternator is doa ?
I have a short video of the noise if anyone can tell me how to post.


Thanks !
R3
 

85Hokie

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Remember - voltage has little to do with starting an engine. You need a boat load of amps!

A clicking is one of several things - battery amp output, or the ability of the battery to get those amps TO the starter.

I would clean every connection I could get my hands on - look carefully at EACH end of each connection too.

IF you can get it started - apply the voltage meter on the battery ONCE running - see if there is 14+ volts, that way you can eliminate the alternator as a problem.

Jump it and see if that gets you back running - run the voltage test and report back.
 
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The Evil Twin

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^^ spot on.
You can have 12v but the battery is still bad. Most chargers won't even know. Easiest thing is to try to jump start it. If it starts then you know what's bad. Or have the batt load tested.
 

fried1765

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^^ spot on.
You can have 12v but the battery is still bad. Most chargers won't even know. Easiest thing is to try to jump start it. If it starts then you know what's bad. Or have the batt load tested.
Take the battery to your local auto parts store, and have it load tested.......FREE!
 
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GreensvilleJay

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re: 'battery was just charged"
...hmmmm for how long was the charging, how many amps went into it, what was the terminal voltage after a 15 minute 'equalization' ?
 

My Barn

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Well either try another battery or take it Auto store...They can (load) test the battery. A meter only test it for a static test.
 

roaf3

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This was a new Intestate battery a few weeks ago. Think the battery is getting depleted slowly. The jump start got the tractor running and the multimeter showed 13v - (Walmart Multimeter) so my plan ,
Charge the batt (10Amp) start it and get a proper load check while the tractor is running.

The tractor has 400 hours on it so mayby the alternator is cooked. The belt tension was fine so I do not believe this was it.

I have a third function installed so I am thinking that mayby that is somehow slowly stealing current.

R3
 

Mark_BX25D

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I would clean every connection I could get my hands on - look carefully at EACH end of each connection too.
Yep. Start there. Don't assume.

But don't just LOOK at the connections. You can see obvious problems that way, but you cannot see all problems that way.

Check the battery cables and connections, both ends. This does not mean "glance at the top of the battery and if there's no obvious corrosion you are good". It means TAKE IT APART AND CLEAN IT. And do not overlook the ground connection to the frame, and the hot connection to the starter. People often make that mistake. "Battery's good, must be something else." Nope, BOTH ends need to be good.

And while you are at it, very carefully inspect the cables. Again, both ends. Corrosion can wick up inside a cable and rot it from the inside out. It's not readily visible from the outside. Look at the exposed end of the cable. Do you see corrosion there? If so, the cable may be bad. One way to find out is to get rough with the cable. Twist it, push it, bend it. If it feels at all "crackly", replace it. "Oh, but if I get rough with it, I might break it!" Good! If it's a good cable you won't bother it. If it's borderline, you want to break it.
 
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fried1765

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This was a new Intestate battery a few weeks ago. Think the battery is getting depleted slowly. The jump start got the tractor running and the multimeter showed 13v - (Walmart Multimeter) so my plan ,
Charge the batt (10Amp) start it and get a proper load check while the tractor is running.

The tractor has 400 hours on it so mayby the alternator is cooked. The belt tension was fine so I do not believe this was it.

I have a third function installed so I am thinking that mayby that is somehow slowly stealing current.

R3
What method do you plan to use to get "a proper load check"?
 

roaf3

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Yep. Start there. Don't assume.

But don't just LOOK at the connections. You can see obvious problems that way, but you cannot see all problems that way.

Check the battery cables and connections, both ends. This does not mean "glance at the top of the battery and if there's no obvious corrosion you are good". It means TAKE IT APART AND CLEAN IT. And do not overlook the ground connection to the frame, and the hot connection to the starter. People often make that mistake. "Battery's good, must be something else." Nope, BOTH ends need to be good.

And while you are at it, very carefully inspect the cables. Again, both ends. Corrosion can wick up inside a cable and rot it from the inside out. It's not readily visible from the outside. Look at the exposed end of the cable. Do you see corrosion there? If so, the cable may be bad. One way to find out is to get rough with the cable. Twist it, push it, bend it. If it feels at all "crackly", replace it. "Oh, but if I get rough with it, I might break it!" Good! If it's a good cable you won't bother it. If it's borderline, you want to break it.
This is super good advice and I will indeed do this!
 

Henro

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It was stated above that amps are needed to turn the starter motor. This is certainly true. But volts are needed to provide the force to push the amps through the starter motor. If the battery is bad, as soon as you try to use the starter, the battery voltage will drop and the voltage will not be high enough to provide the amount of amps that the starter motor needs.

One can spend a lot of time checking, cleaning and reattaching connections in the circuit. But it can be more efficient using a voltmeter and determining where the actual problem is. The first and most simple check is the put the voltmeter leads on the battery terminals themselves, not the cable clamps, but the actual battery posts, and to try to start the tractor while monitoring the battery voltage itself. If battery voltage drops significantly low at the time the starter is supposed to be engaged, there’s no need to look further. The battery is defective.

If the battery voltage does not drop and stays at 12 volts or so, then it’s time to make other measurements at different points in the circuit and isolate the problem wherever it may be. The next step might be to measure the voltage at the starter motor. When the tractor ignition switch is put into the start mode, if the voltage at the starter motor drops low, when you know the voltage in the battery did not drop low, then you have a bad connection/cable someplace between the starter motor terminal and the battery. Keep in mind that if the battery voltage stays high at the starter you could still have a bad connection in the return side, which is mainly the connection between the engine and the tractor frame probably. Measuring voltage between the starter motor case and the negative battery terminal would confirm this. It should always be very close to zero.

You can actually find the bad connection by measuring voltage between points in the wiring between the battery terminals and the starter. For example, if you put one voltmeter lead on the battery post and the other voltmeter lead on the clamp that is connected to the battery post, you should not read any voltage when you try to start the tractor (depending on how good your meter is it might display some voltage but it will be very low). If you read voltage the connection between the clamp and the battery post is poor. The same approach can be taken anywhere along the circuit both on the Positive side and the negative side. By doing this you can save a lot of time isolating the problem by not having to take apart, clean, and reassemble every terminal/connection in the circuit.
 
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Fordtech86

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By doing this you can save a lot of time isolating the problem by not having to take apart, clean, and reassemble every terminal/connection in the circuit.
And you will know exactly where the problem is!

While cleaning connections and stuff ain’t a bad thing, but that is just good luck/guess if it works afterwords. Proper checks while it isn’t starting before messing with anything will provide the best diagnosis and repair.

Thanks Henro for typing this one out!
 
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GreensvilleJay

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hmmmm...

I have a third function installed so I am thinking that mayby that is somehow slowly stealing current.

did the battery problem happen AFTER 3rd function was installed ???

it is possible that if incorrectly wired, it could drain the battery.
Remove the +ve battery cable from battery, insert ammeter +battery post to +ve cable and see if ANY current is measured. ANY reading means battery is being drained.

would have to see how the 3rd function kit is supposed to be wired as well as HOW it actually is.
 
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DustyRusty

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3rd function kits are usually wired through the ignition switch, so all current to them ceases once the tractor is shut down. If it was wired directly to the battery, that could be the problem, but only if the third function switch is drawing current. By function, it should only draw current when you push one of the buttons to activate the solenoid.
I am betting on his battery having a defective cell that is draining all the other cells down.
 

The Evil Twin

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3rd function kits are usually wired through the ignition switch, so all current to them ceases once the tractor is shut down. If it was wired directly to the battery, that could be the problem, but only if the third function switch is drawing current. By function, it should only draw current when you push one of the buttons to activate the solenoid.
I am betting on his battery having a defective cell that is draining all the other cells down.
Not always though. The LP 3rd is wired direct per instructions. I never had an issue with parasitic drain, but still added a relay to a KOEO circuit and ran it through. You need to be able to release the pressure in the lines to connect/ disconnect when the engine is off.
 

GreensvilleJay

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Have never seen actual schematic/wiring of the 3rdf kits....
I do KNOW that older meyers snowplows the control switches where 'low to go', meaning +12 went to the coils (solenoids) and you grounded the switch to activate. The 'other guys' did it 'active high... made for no end of cornfusion at 2 AM, with wet snowy icy ( icy snow ?) pelting your face...
 

The Evil Twin

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Have never seen actual schematic/wiring of the 3rdf kits....
I do KNOW that older meyers snowplows the control switches where 'low to go', meaning +12 went to the coils (solenoids) and you grounded the switch to activate. The 'other guys' did it 'active high... made for no end of cornfusion at 2 AM, with wet snowy icy ( icy snow ?) pelting your face...
Don't leave out the frozen fingers. That makes troubleshooting fun!
 

DustyRusty

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Meyers snowplows were the least expensive that you could buy 50 years ago. Then Fisher came next, followed by a bunch of commercial-grade snowplows whose names wouldn't even be known today. There were no common methods of how hydraulics worked back then. Meyers used power steering pumps, Fisher had their own pump, and most of the commercial units were powered by Monark Road Machinery pumps. I used to sell and service them, and it was always a nightmare to keep them on the road during a snowstorm.
 

fried1765

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3rd function kits are usually wired through the ignition switch, so all current to them ceases once the tractor is shut down. If it was wired directly to the battery, that could be the problem, but only if the third function switch is drawing current. By function, it should only draw current when you push one of the buttons to activate the solenoid.
I am betting on his battery having a defective cell that is draining all the other cells down.
+1 on that bet!