BX23S backhoe noise - hydraulic or mechanical

[Waywest]

Hello all - I need your help and am new to this forum. I just purchased the tractor new and am having, what I believe, is a strange noise from the dipper stick movement. The noise happens 80% during extension and 20% during retraction, at all levels of throttle and whether right after start up or running for 2 hours. Started early in hour meter and I now have 14.

It seems I can’t attach a video with sound to demonstrate; so it sounds like a rusty old car door. I have greased the fittngs, sprayed lithium grease on the rods and made sure all the locking bolts on pins have some wiggle room. Two zerks were painted over from factory and I can’t tell you how unhelpful the dealer is - won’t comment on video because of “liability” and wants me to bring tractor in.

I just need to know if this is normal or if there is a problem. Tomorrow I will decouple the dipper cylinder and operate it and then manually lift the arm to try and isolate mechanical or hydraulic.

Any guidance would be much appreciated. If there is a way to post the short video please let me know. Besides this issue I love this machine and plan to have it for a very long time. THANKS

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, I've got 359 hrs on my 2 yer old BX23S and NO rusty car door sound. You shouldn't need to disconnect the hydraulics, instead do some 'pinponting' tests.
It may be one of the pivot pins doesn't actually have grease.
I'd put in up on the stabilizer feet and move whatever levers, one at a time, to confirm what 'joint' is causing the noise. 'dipper' to me 'arm' that the bucket attaches to.
Now I see in the photos you have the 'grapple'. I suggest you remove that and retest for squeaks. I don't have one and don't know how it gets oiled or greased. It looks like 4 pins(?) and any without a good coats of rease ,all around, could cause the noise. If the noise goes away with it removed then you KNOW it came from the grapple,so reassemble WITH a good coaring of grease.
If the noise doesn't go away,I'd add a couple shots of grease to ONE pivot pin, move lever several times and see/hear what happens. If noise goes aways THAT was the pin.. if not, grase the next one and restest.
This is a 'process of elimination'...so a slow,methodical proceedure is needed.
Hopefully it'll only take an hour or so. When you find it, please post what it was.
Jay

 

[Henro]

There was a recent thread here about an issue with the BX23S where the top of the dipper stick, which holds the hydraulic cylinder pin, starts to spread, and the result (if I remember correctly) included a squeaking sound.

Turned out to be a warranty issue for that poster.

You should find that thread easily as it was very recent. Lots of pictures included. Not sure if this is your issue though...

edit: here is a link to that thread. Do not see mention of squeaking Sound though...over active imagination I guess.

BX23S/BT603 Bracket failure

My tractor has just over 100 hours in it. The majority of those hours has been spent planting trees but I have dug up some small pine and cedar stumps. i’m seeing a bracket slowly failing and it now appears to be about 1/4 inch out a place and the cylinder pin is in a bind. people want to accuse...

www.orangetractortalks.com

 

[pokey1416]

Happened to my BH92 and I think it was the pivot pin. The dealer said that's what it sounded like. I greased everything real good and it eventually went away. I thought it was maybe air in hydraulic line as I did have a leaking hose and had to add fluid. Here's link to the video.

BH92 squealing

 

[Waywest]

Thank you GreensvilleJay, Henro and Pokey1416 for such quick replies. Will investigate through these ideas. I think I have video fixed. See what you think.

Backhoe noise.mp4

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[SidecarFlip]

Jay... It's a thumb not a grapple and I would never put any grease or anything on the piston rods meant to run dry and any grease on them will cause the seals to fail because the dirt that adheres to the grease will get under the seals.

 

[pokey1416]

I hear it I think at the beginning of the dipper stroke. Can someone else safely get near enough to it to hear if it's coming from the cylinder? Do you happen to have any electronic shooting earmuffs? They amplify sound in ambient mode and you might be able to pinpoint it better.

 

[Waywest]

Better and more direct link attached. Noise starts as dipper is lowering. Will wipe off piston rods. Thx sidecarflip.

Backhoe noise.mp4

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[BX23S]

I'd shoot more grease into those fittings until it starts oozing out, and work the arm until the sound disappears.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

yeah thumb not grapple, hay, it's something mechanical that might make the noise...just a process of elimination...

You need a LOT more grease in them fittings ! I give 10 squirts every 50 hrs, then wipe off the excess. A SOLID coating of grease all over the pins and in between 'things that move'.
If you keep running them dry, you'll have $$$ problems.
The factory only puts 1-2 squeezes into them 'shipping squeezes'. Just enought to see stuff moves . The dealer's supposed to properly lube and that wasn't done...
One trick my friend told me, use a different dyed grease, that way you can TELL the new grease has pushed out all the old.

 

[leveraddict]

Clean the paint off those grease fittings and grease the hell out of it!

I do wonder why those are painted over?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

no covers on them when they get painted on the assembly line.....
two of mine were orange... I scraped off the paint,put 15-20 shots of grease into them,full motion,then another 5 shots of grease. You need to see the old grease come out, rag of the excess...

 

[BigG]

You could do the old school trick of putting the end of a wooden dowel near one pin. Cover the other end of the dowel with your thumb and rest your ear on the knuckle of the thumb. Have someone move the arm as you go from pin to pin and you will be able to hear which pin is making the noise. Apply the grease. I do not think you need to take it in to the dealer.

 

[Henro]

Well lubricated things do not make noise.

Looks like the area where the dipper stick cylinder end is, is normal.

So you need to identify where the sound is coming from and take it from there.

Hard for for anyone here to do that from a distance.

 

[Waywest]

Thanks all! Here is an update: I re-lubed everything. Disconnected thumb - no change. Tried to detect exact noise location but only could identify in boom somewhere.

I disconnected the dipper cylinder (piston end pivot pin) and operated cylinder -no noise no binding. Greased everything on reassembly.

Main hinge/ pivot pin for dipper: Cleaned off remaining paint and ensured zerk ball free - very hard to squirt any grease in. With bucket resting on ground I tried to remove the pivot pin. Extremely tight and only got it about 1/3 out. Greased it all and knocked loose the square washers. Reassembled - but in pushing pin back in mushroomed the zerk end of the pin so had to grind slight bulge off. Got pin in and tried grease again but won’t accept much.

Operated the arm and no noise! However, concerned about resistance to accepting grease and my slightly modifying the pivot pin. Will change zerk but still expect back pressure. Should I replace pivot pin due to my grinding and resistance to grease?

 

[pokey1416]

I think others here have way more knowledge than I maybe when you remove the zerk you'll be able to tell if something is blocking grease?

Sorry not much help from here.

 

[Waywest]

To be clear this is the pivot pin ( see picture) I wonder if I should replace. I am now thinking even resting the bucket on the ground probably created some upward force on the pin which made it hard to remove. But, the resistance to grease still is a concern. Thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I'd buy another pin....
To get it out, I use a deep socket that's just a tad smaller than the hole. You'll need to support the arm and release hydraulic pressure. Just be careful ! Better to spend an hour 'jigging it up' than 8 hours in the hospital !!

 

[Henro]

66

To be clear this is the pivot pin ( see picture) I wonder if I should replace. I am now thinking even resting the bucket on the ground probably created some upward force on the pin which made it hard to remove. But, the resistance to grease still is a concern. Thanks

It’s possible you had enough force pushing on the bucket to make removal/insertion of the pin difficult… Don’t know.

But in my limited experience, needing enough force to push the pin back in, resulting mushrooming the end of the pin, is an excessive amount.

Is your tractor still in warranty? If so I would replace that pin because any modification you make may likely void the warranty. Doing it again, without pressure on the dipper stick, could give you an indication if you really have a problem or if you caused the mushrooming yourself.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Couple of thoughts.
1. While you had the dipper cylinder off, did you swing the dipper by hand to see if it made the noise?
2. Remove the zerk and either replace it or see if you can pump grease through it. While you have the fitting off, run a drill bit down the hole with your fingers to see if you can fish out any debris. It's cross-drilled so you can't clean that part without removing the pin, but maybe you'll get lucky.
3. I don't think you need to replace the pin, but you may need to remove it to make sure the passages aren't plugged with debris. I'd lay the boom and stick out straight on the ground on some wood blocks and not try to support it in the air.