BX2200 extremely high rpms - SOLVED - cleaned the injection pump

[badgerwithhands]

I had run through a lot of threads trying to figure out my problem. Short of replacing the injectors or high pressure pump, I ran through the standard things (fuses, solenoid, wiring harness, etc.)

I had intermittent fuel issues which drew me to removing and cleaning the tank. Holy moly the amount of crap that made it past the fuel gauge sending unit.

I decided to upgrade to a fuel/water separator. I put the fuel system back as stock to ensure it started and ran. It did.

After I put new fuel lines and the new separator, it wouldn't start.

Long story short, I wasn't getting fuel to the injectors. I saw this video:

Looking through the open solenoid hole, I saw the arm in pump was staying in the shutoff position. I was able to hook it and bring it open and it cleared whatever was blocking it and started to move normal.

No hard lines, crank, fuel firing from pump. Awesome! Reinstall hard lines, bleed fuel.

Now for the scary part. It fires up and blasts to full throttle like it is running away. Solenoid is out so I used the stop lever to no avail so I shove my hand over the intake manifold and kill it.

Is this possibly the high pressure pump or did the oil pass the seals?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious... did you replace the shims when you reattached the pump to block ?

 

[badgerwithhands]

curious... did you replace the shims when you reattached the pump to block ?

I didn't remove the pump. That video was something I watched in preparation for maybe removing it. I only removed the solenoid and through it's opening could see the arm was staying in the fuel shutoff position.

 

[badgerwithhands]

Shameless bump for potentially more eyes.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Shameless bump for potentially more eyes.

Put that video completely out of your mind and in the trash can.
There are so many issue with it it's not even funny!

Pull the pump and if the rack is sticking, DO NOT take it apart yourself.
There is timing issues among other issues if you do not repair it properly.
Take it to a fuel injection shop and have them rebuild it.
I would also pull the injectors and have them done at the same time.

 

[badgerwithhands]

Put that video completely out of your mind and in the trash can.
There are so many issue with it it's not even funny!

Pull the pump and if the rack is sticking, DO NOT take it apart yourself.
There is timing issues among other issues if you do not repair it properly.
Take it to a fuel injection shop and have them rebuild it.
I would also pull the injectors and have them done at the same time.

I was definitely not going to be doing any of what they did. I watched it do see the inner workings and happened to notice that slide was stuck in the fuel stop position.

I'm trying to determine what the issue is so I do not throw money/parts at something as expensive as the high pressure pump, only for it to not be that.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I was definitely not going to be doing any of what they did. I watched it do see the inner workings and happened to notice that slide was stuck in the fuel stop position.

I'm trying to determine what the issue is so I do not throw money/parts at something as expensive as the high pressure pump, only for it to not be that.

Pull the pump out and you'll know right away.
FYI: On a Kubota it's about the only thing that normally will make an engine not govern itself.

 

[DustyRusty]

You have a 20-year-old tractor and who knows how many hours are on it and previous maintenance, unless you are the original owner. As you pointed out, there was a lot of trash in the tank, and you have no idea how much of that made it past the filters and into the pump. Take NIWs advice and take the injection pump and injectors to be rebuilt by a competent shop. If the shop you take it to is honest and reliable, they will not take advantage of you. You don't have the experience to determine anything concerning the injection pump, and if you are worried about throwing money at the machine, then do what I did. Sell it and buy a new machine. My 2003 BX22 was running fine, but it was 17 years old when I bought my BX23S and I feel that I dodged expensive repairs by selling it when I did. Repairing a 20-year-old machine isn't going to increase its value, except in your case, your tractor is worth nothing except for parts unless you fix it. It isn't going to be inexpensive, but it will be a lot less expensive than replacing it with a new tractor. If you don't like the advice that you are getting here, then feel free to try some other tractor websites, but if those other websites have the knowledge base that OTT has, they are going to be telling you what you already have heard here.

 

[badgerwithhands]

You have a 20-year-old tractor and who knows how many hours are on it and previous maintenance, unless you are the original owner. As you pointed out, there was a lot of trash in the tank, and you have no idea how much of that made it past the filters and into the pump. Take NIWs advice and take the injection pump and injectors to be rebuilt by a competent shop. If the shop you take it to is honest and reliable, they will not take advantage of you. You don't have the experience to determine anything concerning the injection pump, and if you are worried about throwing money at the machine, then do what I did. Sell it and buy a new machine. My 2003 BX22 was running fine, but it was 17 years old when I bought my BX23S and I feel that I dodged expensive repairs by selling it when I did. Repairing a 20-year-old machine isn't going to increase its value, except in your case, your tractor is worth nothing except for parts unless you fix it. It isn't going to be inexpensive, but it will be a lot less expensive than replacing it with a new tractor. If you don't like the advice that you are getting here, then feel free to try some other tractor websites, but if those other websites have the knowledge base that OTT has, they are going to be telling you what you already have heard here.

I'm not discounting the information I've been given here. I'm not being rude so I don't think others should be. I'm disabled so I try to find out as much as I possibly can before hoofing my ass over to the tractor and wrenching. It's not as easy for me to do anymore. I'm not trying to maximize it's value or buy a new tractor. I would like to repair it. I've played with many a Kubota engine and injector pump but have never had this situation in any tractor or bobcat. Just because I'm a new member to this forum does not mean I know nothing about these or other machines.

Regardless, if the high pressure pump is the consensus then I will pull it, inspect, and attempt to locate a reputable shop.

Pull the pump out and you'll know right away.
FYI: On a Kubota it's about the only thing that normally will make an engine not govern itself.

Curious to understand by "know right away". As in visible junk in there or something else?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm not discounting the information I've been given here. I'm not being rude so I don't think others should be. I'm disabled so I try to find out as much as I possibly can before hoofing my ass over to the tractor and wrenching. It's not as easy for me to do anymore. I'm not trying to maximize it's value or buy a new tractor. I would like to repair it. I've played with many a Kubota engine and injector pump but have never had this situation in any tractor or bobcat. Just because I'm a new member to this forum does not mean I know nothing about these or other machines.

Regardless, if the high pressure pump is the consensus then I will pull it, inspect, and attempt to locate a reputable shop.


Curious to understand by "know right away". As in visible junk in there or something else?

I don't think anyone's trying to be rude to you, especially not me.
We don't know what we don't know, that's where forums like this are invaluable for finding out information quickly.

What I mean by you'll know is that the rack on the injection pump will not slide smoothly, it will bind and hang.

When you pull the pump remove all the shims under the pump and save them, (caution they are super thin and very easily missed) as that sets the timing and you don't want to lose those.
If you send the pump to be rebuilt you don't want them tossing the shims out.

 

[badgerwithhands]

I don't think anyone's trying to be rude to you, especially not me.
We don't know what we don't know, that's where forums like this are invaluable for finding out information quickly.

What I mean by you'll know is that the rack on the injection pump will not slide smoothly, it will bind and hang.

When you pull the pump remove all the shims under the pump and save them, (caution they are super thin and very easily missed) as that sets the timing and you don't want to lose those.
If you send the pump to be rebuilt you don't want them tossing the shims out.

Thanks. I am not sure DustyRusty was trying to be rude, but that is how I perceived it.

I had read other things about the shims, some even from your responses, so I anticipated keeping those.

The more I ponder on it, the more I assume junk got sucked into the high pressure pump. It is very low hours for it's age and most of the maintenance was properly done.

One last thing before I pull it. Can I remove the valve where the low pressure enters the pump for inspection or does it have timing as well? I know the fuel bleeder can be taken back but where the fuel bleeder is mounted. I planned to paint pen it anyway, just want to verify.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks. I am not sure DustyRusty was trying to be rude, but that is how I perceived it.

I had read other things about the shims, some even from your responses, so I anticipated keeping those.

The more I ponder on it, the more I assume junk got sucked into the high pressure pump. It is very low hours for it's age and most of the maintenance was properly done.

One last thing before I pull it. Can I remove the valve where the low pressure enters the pump for inspection or does it have timing as well? I know the fuel bleeder can be taken back but where the fuel bleeder is mounted. I planned to paint pen it anyway, just want to verify.

No issues at all with the fuel input fitting or the bleeder plug.
Just a couple crush washers seal them.

Your issue is not going to be fuel entering the pump it's going to be internal at the barrels, rack, or delivery valves.
I would give you a breakdown of the pump, but they don't give it for the BX2200.
They didn't want owners to get into the pumps so they didn't show the insides.

 

[badgerwithhands]

I did find this, which I think has a couple of minor differences like the retaining clip.

 

[johndeerebones]

I'm not discounting the information I've been given here. I'm not being rude so I don't think others should be. I'm disabled so I try to find out as much as I possibly can before hoofing my ass over to the tractor and wrenching. It's not as easy for me to do anymore. I'm not trying to maximize it's value or buy a new tractor. I would like to repair it. I've played with many a Kubota engine and injector pump but have never had this situation in any tractor or bobcat. Just because I'm a new member to this forum does not mean I know nothing about these or other machines.

Regardless, if the high pressure pump is the consensus then I will pull it, inspect, and attempt to locate a reputable shop.


Curious to understand by "know right away". As in visible junk in there or something else?

Aggravating isn't it? Disabled too. EVERYTHING takes 2 to 3 times longer than normal. Very type A, doesn't help that I'm only 42. Yes likely the pump, unless you have timing capability and a flow bench, send it off. not cheap, best thing is block pumps are the cheapest type.

 

[badgerwithhands]

Aggravating isn't it? Disabled too. EVERYTHING takes 2 to 3 times longer than normal. Very type A, doesn't help that I'm only 42. Yes likely the pump, unless you have timing capability and a flow bench, send it off. not cheap, best thing is block pumps are the cheapest type.

Unfortunately, mine happened from an accident and haven't yet lost my lower left leg. It's one of the options I'm still considering if the other 3 surgeries don't end up healing correctly.

Started with the fuel bleeder and sure enough. There was trash and a little rust visible. All I need now is to find the right shop.

As far as timing, a replacement would be the same because the timing is to the cam or am I wrong?

 

[Russell King]

Where in Texas are you located? I am in central Texas (Austin) so may be able to help you out if you need help.

Currently the recommended path is to remove the injection pump and have it repaired. There is a rebuild company with high recommendations called Oregon Fuel Injection. See this website

Home

Oregon Fuel Injection specializes in the repair of diesel fuel injection systems, replacement diesel parts, performance parts, drive-in service, repairs and diagnostics.

oregonfuelinjection.com

Since you are in Texas there is probably a more local option for diesel repair shops that probably repair pumps but you should check with your dealer to see who they use.

edit: corrected website link

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

If you pull the pump I can walk you through checking the pump

Unfortunately, mine happened from an accident and haven't yet lost my lower left leg. It's one of the options I'm still considering if the other 3 surgeries don't end up healing correctly.

Started with the fuel bleeder and sure enough. There was trash and a little rust visible. All I need now is to find the right shop.

As far as timing, a replacement would be the same because the timing is to the cam or am I wrong?

Timing is set with the shims, and yes a new pump will use the same shims.
The pump dimensions are all the same it's the block's height that varies, hence the reason for the shims.

I would suggest if you don't have someone local, you send the pump and the injectors off to Oregon Fuel Injection, they will hook you right up.

 

[badgerwithhands]

Where in Texas are you located? I am in central Texas (Austin) so may be able to help you out if you need help.

Since you are in Texas there is probably a more local option for diesel repair shops that probably repair pumps but you should check with your dealer to see who they use.

I'm west of San Antonio in the boonies. I appreciate the offer. I was able to get it pulled and I just wiped down the exterior for the moment.

If you pull the pump I can walk you through checking the pump

Timing is set with the shims, and yes a new pump will use the same shims.
The pump dimensions are all the same it's the block's height that varies, hence the reason for the shims.

I would suggest if you don't have someone local, you send the pump and the injectors off to Oregon Fuel Injection, they will hook you right up.

Thank you both for the recommendation of Oregon Fuel Injection. I haven't yet found someone local-ish who will take the job. I may be shipping it out to Oregon.

I trust y'all's input. If checking it could possibly fix it then I will, but it seems repair may be inevitable.

 

[badgerwithhands]

I fully removed the pump and have yet to hear back from two of the shops I expected to. I removed the slide just to see if it was all or one, out of curiosity. The center injection valve is not stuck but definitely difficult to move compared to the others. I've seen several videos and searched for rebuild kits. It's interesting to see the lack of support for everything except the plungers.

 

[badgerwithhands]

After receiving some quotes that I thought were too high, I decided to just disassemble and clean it myself. As long as I didn't break anything, then a repair would still be possible if cleaning didn't work.

I watched a few more videos and read more. One of the best videos for disassembly and reassembly was this:

He does make a mistake but corrects it.

Wow it was insanely dirty! I kept each injection port together and returned everything to the same location. Each one has a different size shim. A 07, 10, and 15. I used brake cleaner, clean rags, 0000 steel wool, and diesel. Everything was rinsed in diesel, wiped down with a clean rag, and rinsed in diesel again.

Reinstall everything, bleed, and attempt to start. Eureka! Runs like it should.

Now obviously I would like to have rebuilt it and the injectors, but that just isn't in the budget right now. I'm not one to remember to take photos or videos, so this will have to do.