BX 2200 Creeping and FEL Lift Power

[bobkeyes]

My BX 2200 is creeping when you let off the pedal. It seems to happen when you are backing up, but will happen when you have been going forward. Didn't notice it in warm weather at all, but now that it's cold it has started creeping.

Also, the FEL doesn't seem to lift the tractor front end off the ground very far. It will lift the wheels off but only about 1/2". Is that normal?

Thanks for any comments.

 

[TripleR]

You might try a little thinner grease for the HST pivot.

Are you lifting with the bucket pointed down?

 

[hodge]

x2. Most loaders don't go down far, with the bucket flat and parallel to the ground. If you roll the bucket, you should be able to lift the front end up. If it won't, then you have an issue.
My skidsteer doesn't lift the front off the ground, unless the bucket is rolled some. It goes down to flat on the ground, and that is as far as it can mechanically go.

 

[bobkeyes]

Hodge and TripleR,
Thanks for your reply. I'll look at the grease issue. Thanks.
On the FEL. It won't lift the front buy 1/2" or so even with the bucket rolled down. I may have an issue with the down pressure. It will lift a bucket full of wet dirt so there's no issue with the lift power. Can't see it being a piston seal and that should affect both ways. I'll look into it.

Thanks again.

 

[hodge]

I have a friend with a JD 750, and his won't- there is an issue in the valve, and it is losing fluid past the seal. It lifts strong, but doesn't have much down pressure.

 

[ipz2222]

My bx is a creeper also. If it's creeping fwd, I just lightly top rev and it stops.

 

[hodge]

My bx is a creeper also. If it's creeping fwd, I just lightly top rev and it stops.

My 7100 does it too- I think it is just a characteristic of an HST.

 

[TripleR]

Agree with Hodge, if it won't lift with the bucket rolled down then something is wrong. I have had some luck by disconnecting then reconnecting all FEL hoses, doesn't make much sense, but mine has done that.

If that doesn't work, you might check the FEL controls at the joystick, some has reported rusting or gunk buildup. Then I'm at a loss.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

My 7100 does it too- I think it is just a characteristic of an HST.

All the more reasons why I love a gear tranny!!!

 

[bobkeyes]

My bx is a creeper also. If it's creeping fwd, I just lightly top rev and it stops.

I can do that too and it stops creeping, but then a few seconds later it starts again. Isn't there a linkage adjustment somewhere?

 

[TripleR]

Our BX2200 was a creeper, but not our John Deere 435, 2305 or Kubota BX2660, L5030 or L5740.

 

[dmanlyr]

My 7100 does it too- I think it is just a of an HST.

Nope, not a characteristic of a properly adjusted and working HST. If the wrong grease is used for the temputare range I have personaly observed the pedal sticking, but that would not be a HST issue, but a linkage issue.

My old BX25, first time it got down to the teens, yup, creep, relubing the pedal with proper temp range grease promptly cured it.

Much like how you would select the proper engine oil for the expected temp range. Too thick of oil really slows cranking down & may make starting hard if not impossible without a block heater / oil pan heater.

On very high time HST's (we are generaly talking 1000's of hours) you can get creep.

 

[dmanlyr]

All the more reasons why I love a gear tranny!!!

Perhaps this just hit me wrong, but....

What does this have to do with creeping HST's? Should I post everytime that someone has a manual transmission or clutch issue that they suck and HST's are the way to go?

Do you still use a manual winch to raise and lower your implements or FEL? No, you use hydralics as they made manual winches obsolete. Same with HST's, they have simply made manual transmissions obsolete in almost ALL* situations. Times change. We also have electric starters on Tractors now, no need to risk breaking a arm hand cranking the engine. Times do change.

As far as I am concerned, at best, shifting and clutching on most ANYTHING other than a sports car, but even then in traffic it sucks, is at best a mind numbing task better suited to a mindless mechanical device. At the worst, all is does is tear up shoulders and ankles/knees from the uneeded repetive tasks.

And yes, I carry a CDL so I have spent my fair share of time shifting... BLAH even big rigs are going full auto if not automated shifting. About time, it would have saved me a lot of shoulder pain for sure.

Ok, I will shut up, I do not mean to unload, but really, times change!

*I will admit this, if I were to do nothing but plow miles long fields, then I would consider a manual tranns, because shifting would be minimal. Throw in small fields, or a FEL, then HST's rule

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I've been a member of this forum since 2009 and all I ever hear is non stop complaints about the HST tranny, how it does this or it doesn't do that, it wont sit still and creeps, it makes to much noise and whine and bitch whine and moan about an HST.

NO THANK'S I'll stick with a good old fashioned manual transmission that has stood the test of time and needs nothing more then a clutch replacement maybe once in its life time.

I too have a CDL and been truckin for about 10 years and prefer a gear tranny in my big rigs over a auto. I have better control of the rig that way.

It's really a matter of personal preference and I still prefer gears over oil.

 

[hodge]

I've been a member of this forum since 2009 and all I ever hear is non stop complaints about the HST tranny, how it does this or it doesn't do that, it wont sit still and creeps, it makes to much noise and whine and bitch whine and moan about an HST.

NO THANK'S I'll stick with a good old fashioned manual transmission that has stood the test of time and needs nothing more then a clutch replacement maybe once in its life time.

I too have a CDL and been truckin for about 10 years and prefer a gear tranny in my big rigs over a auto. I have better control of the rig that way.

It's really a matter of personal preference and I still prefer gears over oil.

I always felt that way, but now that I have an HST, I see the value in both. I guarantee that I can cut 15 minutes or more off my mowing by using a hydro over a gear drive. I hardly ever use the brakes- they will last forever. It is strong, less shock on the driveline, and a novice can't burn my clutch out. I would definitely prefer a hydro over gear for loader work- I use my dads 3930 gear drive tractor with loader versus the bobcat, and loader work is easier when you don't have to ride the clutch. Like you say, Eric, to each his own. But, to be fair, hydro isn't weak- just different.

 

[hodge]

Nope, not a characteristic of a properly adjusted and working HST. If the wrong grease is used for the temputare range I have personaly observed the pedal sticking, but that would not be a HST issue, but a linkage issue.

My old BX25, first time it got down to the teens, yup, creep, relubing the pedal with proper temp range grease promptly cured it.

Much like how you would select the proper engine oil for the expected temp range. Too thick of oil really slows cranking down & may make starting hard if not impossible without a block heater / oil pan heater.

On very high time HST's (we are generaly talking 1000's of hours) you can get creep.

My tractor creeps (not enough to move the tractor, but enough to create resistance to the high/low lever), and it is low hour (720 now), has the proper grease, and it has been well kept since new. I have had other hydros, wheel horses, and they would creep, too. While it may be a maintenance issue, I don't think you can say that creeping isn't a characteristic; there is a fine line between forward and reverse, and it is hard to maintain that fine line.
My Bobcat skidsteer creeps a little, too. That is 4 hydro drive machines, 3 of them different makes and applications, and they all creep a little.

 

[dmanlyr]

My tractor creeps (not enough to move the tractor, but enough to create resistance to the high/low lever), and it is low hour (720 now), has the proper grease, and it has been well kept since new. I have had other hydros, wheel horses, and they would creep, too. While it may be a maintenance issue, I don't think you can say that creeping isn't a characteristic; there is a fine line between forward and reverse, and it is hard to maintain that fine line.
My Bobcat skidsteer creeps a little, too. That is 4 hydro drive machines, 3 of them different makes and applications, and they all creep a little.

I have had a much different experience.

I had the BX25 creep once during a unusal for my area cold spell, solved by a thiner grease on the pedal pivot

The L3200 has never creeped, we will see if it needs thinner grease this winter if it gets cold enough.

I had a Thomas 153 S skid steer, when I sold it at 1074 hours zero creep

My old Craftsman rider, zero creep

My Hustler super Z, crummy mower for other reasons, but neither hydrostats creep.

I rented a JD small TLB for a week many years ago - zero creep

I have test driven a couple of used zero turns as I want to replace my Hustler, and no creep with either of those used machines.I have decided though given the Kubota 0% financing to buy new this winter.

So that is my experience, not a bad one in the bunch, even with one in the 1000+ hour range.

But then I also have had several of those infamous Oldsmobile diesels, and once given the updates, I had a good service life out of them, so maybe it is just me.

David

 

[dmanlyr]

I've been a member of this forum since 2009 and all I ever hear is non stop complaints about the HST tranny, how it does this or it doesn't do that, it wont sit still and creeps, it makes to much noise and whine and bitch whine and moan about an HST.

NO THANK'S I'll stick with a good old fashioned manual transmission that has stood the test of time and needs nothing more then a clutch replacement maybe once in its life time.

I too have a CDL and been truckin for about 10 years and prefer a gear tranny in my big rigs over a auto. I have better control of the rig that way.

It's really a matter of personal preference and I still prefer gears over oil.

I could not agree more that it is personal preference. I just take exception that means manuals are in someway better. Not so. Times change. I am sure that at one time someone looked at those new fangled electric starters and said just give me that old simple hand crank as well.....

While I have not been on this paticular web site for long, I sure see more manual transmission issues that HST's. Seems that someone is always having a clutch or other issue.

Yup, some people do complain about the HST whine, just as some people complain about the noise of the diesel engine. I am not sure quite what you mean by what a HST can and cannot do, I see no limitations on HST's over a manual tranny, in fact the only thing I see is how much faster they are in loader operations. I see nothing in the owners manuals about the HST's not being able to perform the same exact job that the manuals do? So I am not sure what you mean there. I do not even see a manual transmission offered in many types off off road equipment for that matter. When for example have you seen a new manual transmission skid steer?

I have had a CDL for a very long time, driven many trucks and combinations over the years, and while I agree the automatics took some time to get used to, there is nothing that a manual transmission can do in regards to a automatic in the amount of control over a load.

In my own personal 5 yard 1970 dump truck, yes it has a Allison 6 speed automatic, (I have NOTHING on my property, including motorcycles and 4x4's that are a manual) it has a retarder pedal to control down hill speed using by using the non compressibility of a fluid and turning that into heat.... and that is in a 42 year old truck, although it is certainly not a class 8 rig. I bring this up as some would say that the compression braking of a manual gives more control, well, I can downshift the automatic to gain compression braking, plus use the retarder and that beats the manual in control hands down. Again with 42 year old technology.

So again, I will leave it at personal prefference, agreed, but not that manuals are superior, as they are not, and that has been the case for many years. Hydrostatic and automatic transmissions took over the heavy off road equipment years ago, and now, as automatics or automated transmissions take over the truck fleets, not only do we have less repetive soft tissue damage, but we are also finding out that the automatics are easier on the rest of the drivetrain.

I do absolutly agree though that it is personal prefference in the end!

David

 

[hodge]

I have had a much different experience.

I had the BX25 creep once during a unusal for my area cold spell, solved by a thiner grease on the pedal pivot

The L3200 has never creeped, we will see if it needs thinner grease this winter if it gets cold enough.

I had a Thomas 153 S skid steer, when I sold it at 1074 hours zero creep

My old Craftsman rider, zero creep

My Hustler super Z, crummy mower for other reasons, but neither hydrostats creep.

I rented a JD small TLB for a week many years ago - zero creep

I have test driven a couple of used zero turns as I want to replace my Hustler, and no creep with either of those used machines.I have decided though given the Kubota 0% financing to buy new this winter.

So that is my experience, not a bad one in the bunch, even with one in the 1000+ hour range.

But then I also have had several of those infamous Oldsmobile diesels, and once given the updates, I had a good service life out of them, so maybe it is just me.

David

Good for you- you have had better experiences than I have. Regardless, I am not anti-HST, I just adapt to what I have. I have accepted the creep.

 

[Eric McCarthy]

I've been on both HST and gear equipment and in my own observation and usage I really hate the damn hydros. I've been on tractors to skid steers to Piggy Back and Moffit fork lifts and I feel I have NO control over them. The forklifts I've ran were well worn and used/abused and wobbled all over the place. I would constantly have to look for that sweet spot between forward and reverse, in the mean time try not bang into the side of a Mack flat bed or tear the steps off the fuel tank. The tractor's I've played on that are HST have shown me no difference in being faster with a loader versus a gear tranny in that regard. And as for the skid steers I've ran its been the same issues as with the forklifts, creeping, bumping and banging into stuff.

Manual transmissions on equipment and auto mobiles has not been completely phased out, they are still readily available, you just have to ask for them. HST trannys on tractors became popular because of the small acreage owner that has one to two acres of land are buying up the sub compacts and have no clue what it takes to run a normal tractor and they have very little to no knowledge about tractors period. So yeah for the tractor makers to keep up with the times they had to make a more user friendly idiot proof tractor.

I'm not going to sit here and call myself a Billy Badass but stick me on a gear tranny tractor and you can have the identical model with the HST and I'll put money on the fact I can keep up with that HST or surpass it.