The problem that I see is the oil residue on the pan. Possibly welding or brazing is a better solution if they can get a good bead on the bolt. That will leave it for the next owner to deal with. He will need an experienced welder to get a leak-free welded bead.
Broken Oil Drain Plug
- Thread starter dlm
- Start date
Russell King
Well-known member
Equipment
L185F, Modern Ag Competitor 4’ shredder, Rhino tiller, rear dirt scoop
If you can’t get the drain plug out by pulling on it as you’re unscrewing it or by prying and pulling on it you may have to resort to using more effective methods or removing the pan as already mentioned.
Since it has been pointed out that getting the oil pan off is quite a bit of effort I would try to figure out how to get the plug out of the pan on the tractor. Think about getting a tapped hole or something welded onto the plug to make it easier to pull out with something like a slide hammer or turnbuckle.
If I could weld (or easily get tractor to a welder) I might consider cutting the plug and part of the pan out to match some premade part that would then be welded back into the oil pan. That would be my last choice for the repair. I think I would cut some shape that would allow me to get my hand into the pan to clean it out of any shavings and debris.
Since it has been pointed out that getting the oil pan off is quite a bit of effort I would try to figure out how to get the plug out of the pan on the tractor. Think about getting a tapped hole or something welded onto the plug to make it easier to pull out with something like a slide hammer or turnbuckle.
If I could weld (or easily get tractor to a welder) I might consider cutting the plug and part of the pan out to match some premade part that would then be welded back into the oil pan. That would be my last choice for the repair. I think I would cut some shape that would allow me to get my hand into the pan to clean it out of any shavings and debris.
Assuming the plug is steel, weld a nut to it. Then using some all thread into that to come up thru a device to straddle the plug area and while applying some pull turn the counter clockwise with a box end wrench you put over the rod first.
The saddle could be a pitman or tie rod puller that you take the forcing screw out of first.
If it were me that is my approach before dropping the pan and I already have a front end service tool set. You could of course make the saddle from a short piece of channel iron or box tubing with a side cut off. any kind of puller to bridge the plug could be supported with bolts etc.
Sorry no drawing,
Bill
The saddle could be a pitman or tie rod puller that you take the forcing screw out of first.
If it were me that is my approach before dropping the pan and I already have a front end service tool set. You could of course make the saddle from a short piece of channel iron or box tubing with a side cut off. any kind of puller to bridge the plug could be supported with bolts etc.
Sorry no drawing,
Bill
whitetiger
Moderator
Staff member
Equipment
Kubota tech..BX2370, RCK60, B7100HST, RTV900 w plow, Ford 1100 FWA
The inside of the pan is coated which will burn if the pan is heated or welded and create loose debris in the oil pan.
Replace the oil pan and be done with it. You will spend more time trying to cobble it and wind up creating another issue.
Replace the oil pan and be done with it. You will spend more time trying to cobble it and wind up creating another issue.
North Idaho Wolfman
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L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
I actually worked on a D950 that the paint had released from the pan do to them using a motor flush on it.
Killed the entire engine as it oil starved everything!
Lots of great advice on here....
Rule #1.12: Never install a drain plug with an impact wrench.
Rule #1.12, subsection a.1: Never remove a drain plug with an impact wrench.
Rule #1: Righty tighty (clockwise), Lefty loosy, (counter clockwise).
Rule #323: EZ Outs do not work on severely stripped threads.
That silliness aside....
I'd drill the center out of the plug with a reverse drill bit. As large a drill bit as you can determine without hitting the threads in the bung that are left. But drill a dead center pilot hole FIRST at about 1/8" size. The larger bit will follow that 1/8" hole. Dremel the remaining plug head off. Then take a screwdriver and a hammer and get the remains of the plug out.
Run a tap thru and install a Helicoil. Size will be determined by bung thread damage.
Flush the inside of the pan only and use a magnet if possible. Or remove the pan at that point.
Get a new plug the matching size of your Helicoil. Get a plug that has a rubber or urethan washer if you can.
Dropping the pan after that is BEST to ensure no metal shavings in the pan.
Best of luck
Edit: Don't let your drill bits run too deep and hit your oil pickup or crank and main bearings.
Rule #1.12: Never install a drain plug with an impact wrench.
Rule #1.12, subsection a.1: Never remove a drain plug with an impact wrench.
Rule #1: Righty tighty (clockwise), Lefty loosy, (counter clockwise).
Rule #323: EZ Outs do not work on severely stripped threads.
That silliness aside....
I'd drill the center out of the plug with a reverse drill bit. As large a drill bit as you can determine without hitting the threads in the bung that are left. But drill a dead center pilot hole FIRST at about 1/8" size. The larger bit will follow that 1/8" hole. Dremel the remaining plug head off. Then take a screwdriver and a hammer and get the remains of the plug out.
Run a tap thru and install a Helicoil. Size will be determined by bung thread damage.
Flush the inside of the pan only and use a magnet if possible. Or remove the pan at that point.
Get a new plug the matching size of your Helicoil. Get a plug that has a rubber or urethan washer if you can.
Dropping the pan after that is BEST to ensure no metal shavings in the pan.
Best of luck
Edit: Don't let your drill bits run too deep and hit your oil pickup or crank and main bearings.
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fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
Not all bad ....but...,....
How should the OP hold the thread stripped plug from rotating/spinning while drilling?
I hereby cast my (conservative) vote for a new oil pan!
@fried1765 : An appropriately sized wrench on the plug. You remove the plug head after drilling.
I will agree: A whole new pan is best for resale.
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“I guess the only possible "hiccup" would be if a chunk of bolt/bung/nut breaks free and is in the oil pan.”
@Runs With Scissors : A magnet should resolve that….and a spin on filter sits between the pump and the engine anyway…IF something should be picked up……. (doubtful).
@Runs With Scissors : A magnet should resolve that….and a spin on filter sits between the pump and the engine anyway…IF something should be picked up……. (doubtful).
Assuming the internal threaded bung broke loose- this may be a potential solution to get the OP by until the engine or frame needs to be pulled someday and the oil pan can be properly replaced then.
ecoplugsystem.com
The first step would be to get the existing drain plug extracted somehow. If that can be achieved, a strong magnet on the pan exterior can be used to hold the loose bung in place inside the pan somewhere out of the way as mentioned by someone else earlier. The magnetic Eco-Plug can then be used to seal the hole.
How to Install Eco-Plugs Instructional Videos | Steel and Auluminum
How to Install Eco-Plugs Instructional Videos to Fix Damaged Aluminum Oil Pan Threads and Stripped Steel Oil Pan & Drain Plug
ecoplugsystem.com
The first step would be to get the existing drain plug extracted somehow. If that can be achieved, a strong magnet on the pan exterior can be used to hold the loose bung in place inside the pan somewhere out of the way as mentioned by someone else earlier. The magnetic Eco-Plug can then be used to seal the hole.
fried1765
Well-known member
Equipment
Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, Ford 8N, SCAG Liberty Z, Gravely Pro.
There is a MUCH cheaper oil pump from HF, and it works.
Less than $20 as I recall.
I have 2 of 'em!
You've got a welded bung there.
Your best/easiest bet may be to just hit the damn bolt with an impact (either direction) till it falls out.
Then forget a helicoil and just tap the next size up ( doesn't have to be metric, the next closest size may be standard thread) and install new plug.
Your best/easiest bet may be to just hit the damn bolt with an impact (either direction) till it falls out.
Then forget a helicoil and just tap the next size up ( doesn't have to be metric, the next closest size may be standard thread) and install new plug.
If it were mine, I'd bite the bullet and take the oil pan off. Look inside it, work out what you can do to get the plug out and fix it. Get a new oil pan if you need to.
All the options people are providing are good, but most of them feel like quite a bit of work, and all of them come with a risk of getting crud inside the pan that you then need a way to remove.....which leads to dropping the oil pan.
Just do it properly, don't have to worry about it again.
All the options people are providing are good, but most of them feel like quite a bit of work, and all of them come with a risk of getting crud inside the pan that you then need a way to remove.....which leads to dropping the oil pan.
Just do it properly, don't have to worry about it again.
Okay, that was a miserable experience, but probably warranted for my stupid mistake.
I spend 10 hours on this project (aka "oil change gone wrong”) yesterday and another couple of hours today, but the god-damn plug is out!
Not wanting to drop the pan (the FEL loader isn’t coming off easily, etc., etc.), I focused on getting enough downward force on the turning plug by making a Frankenstein puller. Photo attached. I used the same M12 bolt thread in the hope it would align the threads (not sure how much that actually helped). My welding let me down a bit here and lead to a couple of additional challenges, namely excess weld on the puller thread (after it was welded to the plug).
With the excess weld filed down I was able to rotate the bolt welded to the plug. I was met with further resistance but I could see the plug moving ever-so slightly. Then another weld broke. But this was a breakthrough of sorts.
After feeling like I was back at square one and contemplating how I could rebuild the puller I decided to put a socket on the plug and try again. And what do you know, it started turning without spinning! The gap between the pan and the plug increased turn by turn.
Eventually the plug came out and the oil is drained.
Before I do anything else I thought I should check back here on next steps. I have a thread chaser set (as suggested earlier in this thread). Is that still necessary and are they easy to use? I also have a new bolt and crush washer.
Currently basking in the glory of getting the damn plug out.
I spend 10 hours on this project (aka "oil change gone wrong”) yesterday and another couple of hours today, but the god-damn plug is out!
Not wanting to drop the pan (the FEL loader isn’t coming off easily, etc., etc.), I focused on getting enough downward force on the turning plug by making a Frankenstein puller. Photo attached. I used the same M12 bolt thread in the hope it would align the threads (not sure how much that actually helped). My welding let me down a bit here and lead to a couple of additional challenges, namely excess weld on the puller thread (after it was welded to the plug).
With the excess weld filed down I was able to rotate the bolt welded to the plug. I was met with further resistance but I could see the plug moving ever-so slightly. Then another weld broke. But this was a breakthrough of sorts.
After feeling like I was back at square one and contemplating how I could rebuild the puller I decided to put a socket on the plug and try again. And what do you know, it started turning without spinning! The gap between the pan and the plug increased turn by turn.
Eventually the plug came out and the oil is drained.
Before I do anything else I thought I should check back here on next steps. I have a thread chaser set (as suggested earlier in this thread). Is that still necessary and are they easy to use? I also have a new bolt and crush washer.
Currently basking in the glory of getting the damn plug out.
Attachments
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A thread chaser is used to clean up existing threads.
A thread tap is used to cut new threads (and also to clean existing threads).
Which you use depends on the condition of the threads.
You can start by CAREFULLY cleaning the threads with the chaser. Use a magnet to clear any metal in the oil pan. Then install new plug and see how it holds.
This would be a good time to use a torque wrench to see if it will hold enough.
Or, if you trust your arm you can tighten with the ratchet.
Keep in mind if it does hold this time, it may not next time, ect.
So keep spares on hand. Or at least before you do your next oil change.
If it doesn't hold, you MAY be able to get away with tapping (not thread chasing) the same size but a different thread (for example instead of 8 x 1.00mm use 8 x 1.25mm).
If not, time to either drill up a size or helicoil (which will also require you to drill a larger hole) and tap.
A thread tap is used to cut new threads (and also to clean existing threads).
Which you use depends on the condition of the threads.
You can start by CAREFULLY cleaning the threads with the chaser. Use a magnet to clear any metal in the oil pan. Then install new plug and see how it holds.
This would be a good time to use a torque wrench to see if it will hold enough.
Or, if you trust your arm you can tighten with the ratchet.
Keep in mind if it does hold this time, it may not next time, ect.
So keep spares on hand. Or at least before you do your next oil change.
If it doesn't hold, you MAY be able to get away with tapping (not thread chasing) the same size but a different thread (for example instead of 8 x 1.00mm use 8 x 1.25mm).
If not, time to either drill up a size or helicoil (which will also require you to drill a larger hole) and tap.
GreensvilleJay
Well-known member
Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
BEFORE you start the engine !!! Pour lots of 'flushing ' oil (aka cheap thin oil ) to flush out anything that might be in the pan. Say 4 litres of oil, let it drain overnight. If you see anything, do it again. Might help if oil was hot.
Other idea is to use a drain plug with magnet on it, just in case a sliver of bolt is still inside.
Other idea is to use a drain plug with magnet on it, just in case a sliver of bolt is still inside.
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
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L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Why screw around - buy an M8 thread repair kit and make right.
Dan
To me helicoils are a last resort. I've had them come out on me too many times (some of that was probably prior installation error). They also don't stand up to repeated removal/installation as well as "true" threads.
In addition, that looks like a relatively cheap kit, and probably not the best way for him to learn how to helicoil.
If he helicoils he's going to have to drill and tap a larger size (to thread the helicoil in). Not sure how much access is under there, and it's relatively difficult to drill straight when you're squeezed on your back.
Not to mention tapping the new hole straight and true.
The easiest thing is to run the thread chaser and be done.
If it doesn't hold down the road he can helicoil if he has to, or a different repair, depending on condition.
Once he helicoils he's committed. Unless he puts a larger plug in there. Or wants to replace the pan.
Glad to hear you got it out. Just so you know there's an option that hasn't been mentioned. There's a hard plastic plug available for stripped threads. It isn't threaded but threads itself as it screws in. That might allow using tractor while taking a few days reprieve before working on a better plug solution.
TheOldHokie
Well-known member
Lifetime Member
Equipment
L3901/LA525, B7200DT/B1630, G2160/RCK60, G2460/RCK60
Hundreds of thousands if not millions of helicoils used. They are even installed in brand new parts to strengthen threads. A dab of high strength Loctite and they wont back out.
Installation is a 15 minute job and so simple a caveman....
Dan