Backhoe operating question

[PA452]

I picked up a used BX23 a couple weeks ago. I'm not new to utility tractors and heavy equipment, but I am new to running backhoes and this is my first SCUT.

My question is, when lowering the stabilizers before digging, do you use them to completely pick the rear wheels up off the ground or just take some weight off of them? In the little bit of tinkering I've done so far, I had been picking the wheels up entirely off the ground. I figured it was better to take the stress off the rear axle during backhoe operation. In reading the manual however, I see they recommend lower the stabilizers so that the rear wheels are still in light contact with the ground, saying picking it all the way up will induce unwanted stress on the backhoe.

Similar question for the front loader using backhoe operation. I had been dumping the bucket and applying some downward pressure on the loader while operating the backhoe to take the stress off the front axle.

Thanks

 

[William1]

You use them to stabilize, not lift the tractor in the air. Just enough contact to keep the tractor from rocking.
You do not use them at all if you are digging straight out. You only need them when the boom is digging to a side or you have a large weight on the boom (like a stump) and you are swinging the boom.
So if your job does not entail the tractor moving side to side at all, no need to the stabilizers.
Similar logic with setting the fel down. I'll set the bucket flat with the ground then let it float to contact the earth. Then take it out of float.

 

[85Hokie]

I picked up a used BX23 a couple weeks ago. I'm not new to utility tractors and heavy equipment, but I am new to running backhoes and this is my first SCUT.

My question is, when lowering the stabilizers before digging, do you use them to completely pick the rear wheels up off the ground or just take some weight off of them? In the little bit of tinkering I've done so far, I had been picking the wheels up entirely off the ground. I figured it was better to take the stress off the rear axle during backhoe operation. In reading the manual however, I see they recommend lower the stabilizers so that the rear wheels are still in light contact with the ground, saying picking it all the way up will induce unwanted stress on the backhoe.

Similar question for the front loader using backhoe operation. I had been dumping the bucket and applying some downward pressure on the loader while operating the backhoe to take the stress off the front axle.

Thanks

That is an excellent question - I often wondered that before I got in the "business"

I have seen guys that jack the machine up so high that you can drive a bus under it! Sure it looks cool - but from the physics stand point, goes against everything intelligent !

Most "smart" operators will allow the rears to stay on the ground as another point of contact - 4 points being better than just two! Also the outriggers are designed to place you level on a hillside - both being able to go down a good ways - but the higher you are OFF the ground, the less stable you become ! The outriggers form a wide footprint - the higher you go - the taller and less wide you become - the outriggers start to move inward after ground contact! Also - the higher you are - the less far you can reach, and the less you can dig down.

As for the FEL - I have seen people carry weight in it, and place it on the ground - I have seen people curl it over - and I have seen people leave it up,

again - the more points that the machine have in CONTACT with the ground as one end tries to remove "ground" the more stable the machine is to the operator. Depending on the "hill" I am on and the muddy situation, I will take my bucket and place it flat(while on hard ground) - or curl the toothbar into the muddy on soft ground. Most of the time the front end is still in contact with the surrounding area.

 

[PA452]

Thanks for the replies guys.

My goal isn't so much to look cool or to get the tractor higher or anything like that. I understand I want to be low to the ground, as wide as possible. My reasoning for doing this was purely to take stress off the rear axle.

I'll revisit this over the weekend, maybe I'll try putting them down just enough to get the majority of the weight off the wheels. That's roughly what the manual recommended too.

 

[Lil Foot]

I just put 'em down far enough for contact with the wheels still on the ground- more contact points, more stability. If you take stress off the rear axle, you may be putting more stress on the hoe. Better to "spread it around" and share the load. Of course the exception might be in a side hill situation.

 

[zippyslug31]

I'll be the first to admit my limited experience with backhoes (only a little over 1 year). But on my tractor, I find it's dramatically MORE stable if I raise the rear off the ground a little bit. If I try to dig with no use of the outriggers and/or FEL, the give in the tires causes way more bouncing around than I care for and it makes for digging accurately like trying to thread a needle while on horseback.

Please educate me why this bouncing around is preferred over using the stabilizers? And, no, I don't believe my tires are severely under pressured.

 

[DocGP]

I'll be the first to admit my limited experience with backhoes (only a little over 1 year). But on my tractor, I find it's dramatically MORE stable if I raise the rear off the ground a little bit. If I try to dig with no use of the outriggers and/or FEL, the give in the tires causes way more bouncing around than I care for and it makes for digging accurately like trying to thread a needle while on horseback.

Please educate me why this bouncing around is preferred over using the stabilizers? And, no, I don't believe my tires are severely under pressured.

+1 No great experienced operator, but seems most stable to me if I just get the weight off the tires without actually picking them up. As far as wear on the axle, that happens with any use. I wouldn't focus so much on that as tractor stability while using the implement.

Doc

 

[ShaunRH]

There is a point you have to learn, and each backhoe is different due to configurations, tires, filled vs. not, etc.

I have a larger backhoe, an Allis-Chalmers D-17 with a Wagner backhoe on it. It can go down about 11' and pull a 2' bucket (that's a lot of dirt with a deep bucket) so it's not a weak hoe at all. I can pick it up all the way because the sub-frame of the hoe goes all the way to the front of the tractor, but it is less stable the higher you lift it and the pads will push down into softer surfaces if you take the tires out of the picture.

So 85Hokie shares my viewpoint but that point where you are no longer on the rubber or pads vs sharing the load properly around is what you have to learn.

On an unfamiliar hoe, I lift a little at a time and swing the bucket side to side. When the rear tires STOP reacting to the bucket swing is when I know I'm about right. They have enough traction to still help support but you aren't getting that rubbery bounce. On filled tires it seems to hit that point sooner than straight air tires.

Once you learn that point, you just pay attention to that 'feel' and eventually you'll hit it without thinking. The nice thing is that the tires also act as shock absorbers if you hit something with the bucket side. The tractor might rock a little bit but it's better than the 'clang' being transmitted entirely to your butt. Don't ask how I know this... just don't ask.

Also, FEL down and if it will hold, keep the fronts off the ground up to an inch. The front axle destabilizes the hoe on a farm tractor. Dedicated backhoes don't usually have the pivot axle so they are fine on their front wheels. That pivot is horrible for stability so just pick it up and let the front bucket take the weight. You can then scoot the tractor around with just the hoe, sliding it on the bucket. This is why you do not curl the bucket and put it teeth down. The only time you do that is in heavy mud and you need the penetration down to sturdier soil.

 

[William1]

Ah... good tip about scooting on the flat of the FEL. I've been doing it on the front tires alone (FEL floated but locked) and sometimes it would not work at all, between the tires having sunk some and the pivot of the axle. I'll try your suggest 'next dig'.


Off topic, but is there a Zerk on the pivot (BX25D)? I looked but did not search for one.

 

[PA452]

Also, FEL down and if it will hold, keep the fronts off the ground up to an inch. The front axle destabilizes the hoe on a farm tractor. Dedicated backhoes don't usually have the pivot axle so they are fine on their front wheels. That pivot is horrible for stability so just pick it up and let the front bucket take the weight. You can then scoot the tractor around with just the hoe, sliding it on the bucket. This is why you do not curl the bucket and put it teeth down. The only time you do that is in heavy mud and you need the penetration down to sturdier soil.

Interesting. Good point about the pivoting front axle.

I always hear about experienced operators shifting the rear of the tractor with the hoe. I'm guessing even stability issues aside that's not a good thing to do on these subcompact utility tractors? I'm just concerned with stressing or torquing something and causing damage.

 

[ShaunRH]

Nope, works fine even on the compact tractors. The hoes are really strong in a front to back motion so you aren't going to hurt them like that. Side to side is where things can really go wrong.

Sometimes you don't get a choice as you may need to straddle or leave a straddled trench and you have to use the side to side motion of the hoe to accomplish it. If you do it incorrectly you can apply the wrong kind of torque at the wrong time and damage the hoe, usually in a bend or a break of something.

 

[Kurtee]

And you thought you could operate a backhoe. Take a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9OAZAkp5E8

 

[DonDC]

I find on my L35, if you have any play in the attachment to the tractor on a removable hoe, it is better to lift the rear tires just off the ground. Otherwise you can get some jerking as you work the hoe.